I noticed that Surf Solar is nixing the small guns/big guns/energy weapons trifecta for his game in favor of a pistols(and smg's)/rifles/big guns system, which makes a lot of sense to me. After all, why would someone perfectly adept at firing a .44 magnum suddenly struggle to manage a Laser Pistol? Needless to say, maintenance would be a wholly different question, but when you're talking purely the business of handling the two firearms in combat, the experience should be similar, right? Or am I missing some perfectly cogent argument here for setting them apart?
Is there an argument for the Energy Weapons skill?
- Thread starter JimTheDinosaur
- Start date
BonusWaffle
Still Mildly Glowing
I bet its totally different. No recoil for one thing, different projectile speeds, and im sure you need knowledge of lasers and plasma to operate. Theres probably more im just not thinking of off the top of my head.
Oppen
FIXT n°1 fan
I agree in that point. In fact, I think an energy weapon (at least a laser one) should be actually easier to use, since it doesn't recoil. It's a light beam, there is no way it could produce a similar recoil to the one of a gunpowder explosion.JimTheDinosaur said:
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
I don't know.
In the games I always preferred weapons which use conventional ammo to energy weapons. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.
However, you can't deny that the Tesla Cannon is bad ass. Probably the only energy weapon I use.
The only reason I ever have energy weapons in my inventory is to sell them.
I usually carry a .44 or other type of Magnum as my side arm on top of a Ten MM Submachine gun, with a Service or Assault Rifle. However, when things get rusty, I always keep a Missile Launcher or Fat Man (for FO3/NV) handy. If I ever do need to go long range (which I usually don't), I will bring a Sniper Rifle with me.
EDIT: Plus in Fallout 1-2, you don't get Energy Weapons early in the game. So by the time I do get Energy Weapons, I have like 70-80 points of Small Guns, 50 on Big Guns and like 14 on Energy Weapons. So basically I am a surgeon with a pistol or rifle, but can barely handle a laser pistol.
In the games I always preferred weapons which use conventional ammo to energy weapons. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.
However, you can't deny that the Tesla Cannon is bad ass. Probably the only energy weapon I use.
The only reason I ever have energy weapons in my inventory is to sell them.
I usually carry a .44 or other type of Magnum as my side arm on top of a Ten MM Submachine gun, with a Service or Assault Rifle. However, when things get rusty, I always keep a Missile Launcher or Fat Man (for FO3/NV) handy. If I ever do need to go long range (which I usually don't), I will bring a Sniper Rifle with me.
EDIT: Plus in Fallout 1-2, you don't get Energy Weapons early in the game. So by the time I do get Energy Weapons, I have like 70-80 points of Small Guns, 50 on Big Guns and like 14 on Energy Weapons. So basically I am a surgeon with a pistol or rifle, but can barely handle a laser pistol.
BonusWaffle said:
About recoil and projectile speeds: I imagine there's as much variance between the various types of energy weapons in this respect (I assume that either pulse or plasma rifles do have recoil, though I might be wrong), as between various small guns (say, a Needler pistol and a shotgun). That's why I think it makes more sense that recoil governs min-strenght/AP-cost and skill governs the more general "handling" of the gun (projectile speed is admittedly a more complicated matter, but again, I don't see any evidence of energy weapons having one type of projectile speeds versus those of other weapons).
"I'm sure you need knowledge of lasers and plasma to operate" Why? To maintain, sure, but to aim/pull trigger/reload? Besides, if this knowledge was so important, why is agility the only stat governing your energy weapons level, and not also intelligence? Clearly, the handling aspect was the thing the developers had in mind as well.
So, does someone who's spent his whole life practicing with his .44 magnum have a bigger problem hitting his enemy when he suddenly has to use a laser or plasma pistol, or when he suddenly has to use an assault rifle? I would think the latter, but I have never picked up a gun in my life, so I can only guess.
Lyra Heartstrings
First time out of the vault
Now lets analyse that a bit further.BonusWaffle said:
No recoil - imho it makes it easier to shoot with, after all you don't have to calibrate/move around with the gun to correct any recoil or guns with a big "kick" that move your entire body backwards etc ... no need to worry about that.
Different projectile speeds - if you look at the laser weapons in Fallout you will notice that the laser is "instant". Just point where you want to shoot and that's it. Plasma is more random and to be honest it's like a big, slow blob of goo flying around so that might be a problem on longer distances.
Need knowledge of plasma/laser to operate - yeah, because you need to be a genius to pull the trigger
I'm not talking about maintaining a gun like that but shooting is ... pretty damn easy. Pull the trigger - you're done. One step.
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
JimTheDinosaur said:
BonusWaffle
Still Mildly Glowing
im pretty sure if you ask an expert sharpshooter how the gunpowder in bullets work he will be able to tell you. Also what happens when something a certain density hits a certain object at a certain speed, what kind of round will penetrate too much or too little, the angle of ricochet shots, how much the wind will affect a certain bullet, etc. Anyone in fallout can fire a laser pistol (pulling the trigger is easy), being good with one is a different matter. Also you can be on drugs and understand electrified chemicals.
BonusWaffle
Still Mildly Glowing
double post
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Why wouldn't energy weapons have recoil? They don't shoot magic, they have to use up MICROFUSION cells and energy cells to deploy a beam of energy that can punch a hole through armor depending on the type of ammunition, that has to make at least some recoil and probably you have to antain them in very specific ways, is not just a matter of point and squeeze the trigger.
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
Well, the idea is/was that;
Conventional weapons cause a recoil because the gunpowder explosion that happens within the gun.
However, energy weapons (most actually aren't that sure how they work) for all we know do not cause anything similar to this, or create any cause for a recoil, and simply generate and shoot a straight shot.
I pulled this off NukaPedia on how the Laser Rifles work;
Conventional weapons cause a recoil because the gunpowder explosion that happens within the gun.
However, energy weapons (most actually aren't that sure how they work) for all we know do not cause anything similar to this, or create any cause for a recoil, and simply generate and shoot a straight shot.
I pulled this off NukaPedia on how the Laser Rifles work;
Oppen
FIXT n°1 fan
What BigBoss said is valid for lasers because there is no mass (photons mass is negligible, so much that if they pass orthogonal to a black hole their trajectory only gets curved, instead of being sucked in) exchange between the gun and the enviroment (then, no momentum change). For plasma, there should be some recoil because plasma is an ionized gas, which is in fact matter.
Akratus
Bleep bloop.
Perhaps A unified skill for aim would be better. Then the handling could also be improved with stats. Str for weight and such. With individual weapon skills incorporated into repair for maintenance and ammo manufacturing.
I really wish there were subskills in rpg's. Individual weapon maintenance under repair. Individual weapon types under weapon skills. I mean, If you were a legendary survivalist you wouldn't also automatically become a chef cook, now would you?
Subskills could synergize with every other rpg system. They'd make up the progress of the main skill, and addso many things.
I really wish there were subskills in rpg's. Individual weapon maintenance under repair. Individual weapon types under weapon skills. I mean, If you were a legendary survivalist you wouldn't also automatically become a chef cook, now would you?
Subskills could synergize with every other rpg system. They'd make up the progress of the main skill, and addso many things.
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
Akratus said:
So by subskills, you mean basically for example:
For the skill;
Small Guns:
+ Maintenance/Repair
+ Handling/Aiming
However, this is what I would do:
=================================
Primary Skill Set
=================================
1) Strength/Endurance (Is there a word that combines these)
2) Intelligence
3) Agility
4) Perception
5) Luck
=================================
Secondary Skill Set
=================================
----------------------------------------
1) Weapons
----------------------------------------
+ Guns (All Conventional Firearms)
+ Energy Weapons ( All Energy Weapons)
+ Melee Weapons (All Melee Weapons)
+ Unarmed (Unarmed Attacks/Weapons)
+ Explosives (Use of Explosives)
----------------------------------------
2) Stealth
----------------------------------------
+ Sneak (Move Without Being Noticed)
+ Lockpick (Self-Explanatory)
+ Steal (Pickpocket)
----------------------------------------
3) Speech?
----------------------------------------
+ Speech (Knowledge of Persuasion)
+ Barter (Selling/Buying)
----------------------------------------
4) Science
----------------------------------------
+ Mechanics ( Machinery and Computers)
+ Medicine (Skill In Medical Practices)
+ Chemistry (Knowledge of Chemistry)
----------------------------------------
5) Survival
----------------------------------------
+ Repair (Repair Weapons and Armor)
+ Creation? (Creating Ammo, Weapons, Chems, and other Concoctions)
+ Outdoorsman (Cooking, Basic First Aid, Basic Survival Knowledge)
NOTE: The Outdoorsman subskill, in addition to being able to create foods and basic materials, and heal yourself with the basic first aid, the subskill also adds a bonus to resisting starvation, dehydration, and sleep deprivation.
NOTE: The Creation subskill (couldn't think of a better name) also depends on your other subskill levels. This is the way it works. There is a basic "Creation Skill Level" requirement for each item to create. However, there are also secondary requirements depending on other subskills. For example, creating a Stimpak might require a Creation skill of 30, a Medicine skill of 50, and an Outdoorsman skill of 20.
Akratus
Bleep bloop.
BigBoss said:
Crafting is a good name for creating items. But crafting could really be a main skill, with weapon, ammo, food etc. subskills. Otherwise you made a nice list which is very similar to what I would do for a hypothetical fallout game.