Is this a Fan site or a Hater site?

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I feel like I'm the only one here who likes tactics...
Yeah, I was kinda disapointed that they didn't pick a nice old jazz song for the intro, but I am having a lot of fun playing the game.
I may be having a problem finishing the third mission, but I suspect that its more to do with windows than the game. (although a patch would be nice for the graphical glitches)

It may not be perfect, but its not hellspawned excrement either. The way some of the people on this board rant about a buggy game and Interplay's business decisions makes me wonder how they react to actual evil...
 
I think its OK

I like it so far. But not as much as Fallout. I agree that it lost the feel of the first two but again its a good game. Not Fallout grade, but good.
 
Hmm, I disagree- I love this game

I think its fair to say that I have come late to the fallout series (I played fallout 2 for the first time just months ago), but I still am very much impressed with tactics as a game. I think it fits well with the fallout universe, and I absolutely love the addition of strategy in the fallout world. I like the change into a more combat oriented system, approaching a problem and solving that problem using wits, squad mates, and resources, rather than the omnipotent and looming figure in power armor wielding a turbo plasma rifle. I agree that the feeling of "the ultimate character" in the fallout 1 and 2 games was entertaining, but when I complete a mission without taking a hit, or pull off a particularly effective maneuver, I am drawn deeper into the addiction that is this wonderful game, all the while still retaining the great sense of enviroment and feel of the post-nuclear world that goes by the name of fallout.
 
My vote goes for hater site.

I'll submit a lengthy user review to V13 once I'm done with the game tomorrow or so (I just got to the fifth and last BOS bunker last night, and I plan on starting up playing again tonight or tomorrow morning for another multi-hour marathon), but as of right now I'd have to say my opinion is:

Fallout 1 >> Fallout: Tactics > Fallout 2

- Hell Patrol -
Hell_Patrol@juno.com
 
Depends:

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-01 AT 03:37AM (GMT)[p]Or is it an Honest site?

I won't be reduced to sucking off some damn game producer and pander down to them. If they fuck up, I will let it be known. Simple as that. And it's about time we stand up to those who produce these incompetently-made 'programs' and insist upon a return to the quality that they have made in the past and have proven they could do. Look at the support board. Already, they have nearly a fifth of the number of posts on Starfleet Command 2 support boards, and that game is widely regarded as an Orkin-man bug-fest piece of shit. It's also been out longer than Fallout Tactics. Tactics is quickly rising to meet or surpass that level.

Being a fan does not mean verbally sucking off the game designers, it's being true to the game concepts. It's not the same thing as a mindless fan-boy yes-man. We're Fallout fans, first and foremost.

Think about that.

[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------

[font color=white]INTERPLAY: REDEFINING BAD BUSINESS

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
It's a good game, but I hate the intro (the one with the flipping pages of a book), portraits, deathclaw design, and the inclusion of ... "AIR SHIPS" into the fallout storyline... just some very minor things.
 
I always tried to be true to myself and speak up my mind, whether I go up or downstream with the prevailing opinions. I think FOT has its good points, and I would probably buy a sequel if it will come out someday (opinions change). But I would never in my mind take anything (well, besides CTB which is a nice IMO for sectional combat when you don't want to fight, though totally unplayable otherwise) from FOT and wishing it will be implemented in Fallout 3.

[hr width=440]
[p align=center]
http://fallout.gamestats.com/forum/User_files/3aa70eb96ee16565.gif[/p][p align=center][font color=FF00FF face=fixedsys]- Why hello there, Ranger -
[font color=00DD00 face=fixedsys]- (Sigh) Go away! -[/p]
 
Well it's a tactics game, old FO turn base system (only thing real time is for is passing lame encounters) works for me. I like the weapons, I like the skills, and the old feel. The only thing I found wrong was to many goofy references. The old FO games had a dozen...this game has nothing but. Which yes is lame.

Real time is the bane of all stratigey games. Real time doesn't work, never worked and is only for multiplayer games of normaly 12 year olds with online hacks beating people to show they can find cheats.

Computer in real time of course can change all it's actions, weapons, stances and everything before you even moved your mouse let alone clicked a button (how many million instructions persecond your cpu do and how many can you pull off?)


With old games like X-com 1 & 2, and Wages of war, squad level combat isn't easy. X-com 3 doesn't count since well it was silly. But in all, it's a nice title to tide me over till FO 3. And hell I got it for only 29.99 (Bestbuy is good for something)

But seems people complain to the sky itself and if you liked the game your "Sucking up to the programers" or sucking off. Whater that means.

In all it's wasn't bad for what it was intended, Which is not a Fallout rpg game.
 
>
> Well it's a tactics game,
>old FO turn base system
>(only thing real time is
>for is passing lame encounters)
>works for me. I like
>the weapons, I like the
>skills, and the old feel.
>The only thing I found
>wrong was to many goofy
>references. The old FO games
>had a dozen...this game has
>nothing but. Which yes is
>lame.

From what I've heard, just as many as Fallout 2. Perhaps many more. I guess Cain wasn't there to hold their hands and limit the number of rampant easter eggs and keep it to just a few to be comical and not too many to saturate. The skills aren't all represented like they were said to be. Repair and science are just about useless in this game from the various sources I've heard. Lockpick and explosives are not viable ways of getting through a locked door, or even a wooden door. So much for multiple ways of being able to beat a mission. I'm suprised they actually had the gall to call this a tactical game when Jagged Alliance 2 has been out for years already and has for a long time been considered the benchmark for tactical games.

So far, this is a bug hunt. Just like BC3k, SFC2, Fallout 2, and many other recent Interplay games. Some people can't even INSTALL the damn thing, much less play or try to play it. If you're not having noticible problems, then good luck. Many people have already have had immense problems, even making it to the last mission and then have the game crash and burn hard, sometimes taking all their saved games along with it. That's what's pissing an incredible amount of people off.

> Real time is the bane
>of all stratigey games. Real
>time doesn't work, never worked
>and is only for multiplayer
>games of normaly 12 year
>olds with online hacks beating
>people to show they can
>find cheats.

And yet it's touted up the yin-yang. And which, multiplayer is about the only redeeming factor of this game. I also don't think that there's going to be any turn-based multiplayer matches.

>
> With old games like X-com
>1 & 2, and Wages
>of war, squad level combat
>isn't easy. X-com 3 doesn't
>count since well it was
>silly. But in all, it's
>a nice title to tide
>me over till FO 3.
>And hell I got it
>for only 29.99 (Bestbuy is
>good for something)
>
> But seems people complain to
>the sky itself and if
>you liked the game your
>"Sucking up to the programers"
>or sucking off. Whater that
>means.

The aformentioned people who would buy steaming lumps of dog shit if it had "Fallout: The Dog Turd" carved on them. As long as it has Fallout's name, then it's a Fallout game. These are the people that infest the gaming world and are highly responsible for the stagnation of many series and the death of more than a few. Case in point, X-Com, and how it went downhill and really hasn't got the hint that it's supposed to be dead already. But then again, it has the people who would buy "X-Com: Rotting Road-Kill" because it had the name of X-Com on it. They are cattle.

> In all it's wasn't bad
>for what it was intended,
>Which is not a Fallout
>rpg game.

It was meant to be a tactical game in the Fallout Universe. In which, it does both, poorly. If it was competently put together, then I would judge it upon it's own merits. Instead, I'm judging it by what it's trying to accomplish, and from what I've seen, isn't a whole hell of a lot. What they have managed to accomplish from the screenshots some have sent me to show the most retro of the tiles used, might as well have been taken from the old games. Granted, that's perhaps a good thing. But the intro was a definite head-scratcher, and the rest remains to be seen. 99% of the people I have seen that have voiced displeasure with Fallout Tactics has actually played Fallout 1 when it was released. They know the atmosphere, they know what the game is supposed to be like. Even those who have played with killing characters have remarked how this game is to Fallout like Crystal Pepsi is to Pepsi. Sure, it's not the same, and we accept it as such. But it's also lacking other traits that brought us to the originals in the first place.


[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------

[font color=white]INTERPLAY: REDEFINING BAD BUSINESS

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
Hmm, nothing else at all? What about vehicles, races, complete control over npcs, the better way melee damage is computed, how kamikaze is actually a useful trait now, gas weapons, grenade launchers, crouching, destructable barricades and such, rooftop sniping, how first aid is actually useful sometimes now instead of just a poor man's doctor, the new bandaged and winded statuses, etc. etc. You're probobly not a fan of all of these, but I think we can agree that most of these are improvements.
 
>From what I've heard, just as
>many as Fallout 2.
>Perhaps many more. I
>guess Cain wasn't there to
>hold their hands and limit
>the number of rampant easter
>eggs and keep it to
>just a few to be
>comical and not too many
>to saturate.

Actually, I'd say there's less. Of course you're happy enough to spew off venom about something which you've only heard second or third hand.

>The skills
>aren't all represented like they
>were said to be.
>Repair and science are just
>about useless in this game
>from the various sources I've
>heard. Lockpick and explosives
>are not viable ways of
>getting through a locked door,
>or even a wooden door.

Actually repair is alot more useful than it ever was in FO1 or 2. You can open quite a few doors with lockpick, maybe not enough, but not some gates which are controlled by switches. This make sense as they don't have locks to pick in the first place, eh? You're right about explosives generally, but overall traps skill is much much much more useful this time around. Explosions from dynamite wouldn't even wound someone 3' away in FO1 & 2.

>
>So far, this is a bug
>hunt. Just like BC3k,
>SFC2, Fallout 2, and many
>other recent Interplay games.
>Some people can't even INSTALL
>the damn thing, much less
>play or try to play
>it. If you're not
>having noticible problems, then good
>luck. Many people have
>already have had immense problems,
>even making it to the
>last mission and then have
>the game crash and burn
>hard, sometimes taking all their
>saved games along with it.

Err, I've never heard that. What kind of error are you suggesting would arbitrarily delete all a person's save games?
The game crashes on me every 4 or 5 hours, but it's not really a problem unless you take Tough Guy. Obviously this is still unacceptable though.

>And yet it's touted up the
>yin-yang. And which, multiplayer
>is about the only redeeming
>factor of this game.
>I also don't think that
>there's going to be any
>turn-based multiplayer matches.

I play turn-based multiplayer actually. It's not really strategic otherwise. Realtime mode is pretty nice in single player when you're not in a life-or-death battle.

>
>It was meant to be a
>tactical game in the Fallout
>Universe. In which, it
>does both, poorly.

Actually it's pretty good as a tactical game, the major problems are the way it does the fallout universe.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-01 AT 12:57PM (GMT)[p]
>>From what I've heard, just as
>>many as Fallout 2.
>>Perhaps many more. I
>>guess Cain wasn't there to
>>hold their hands and limit
>>the number of rampant easter
>>eggs and keep it to
>>just a few to be
>>comical and not too many
>>to saturate.
>
>Actually, I'd say there's less. Of
>course you're happy enough to
>spew off venom about something
>which you've only heard second
>or third hand.

Actually, I went by the opinion of someone who has played all three Fallout titles.

Still, they should have focused less on the extraneous bullshit and made sure the damn thing actually works for some.

>>The skills
>>aren't all represented like they
>>were said to be.
>>Repair and science are just
>>about useless in this game
>>from the various sources I've
>>heard. Lockpick and explosives
>>are not viable ways of
>>getting through a locked door,
>>or even a wooden door.
>
>Actually repair is alot more useful
>than it ever was in
>FO1 or 2. You can
>open quite a few doors
>with lockpick, maybe not enough,
>but not some gates which
>are controlled by switches. This
>make sense as they don't
>have locks to pick in
>the first place, eh? You're
>right about explosives generally, but
>overall traps skill is much
>much much more useful this
>time around. Explosions from dynamite
>wouldn't even wound someone 3'
>away in FO1 & 2.

I remember some from the demos with traps skill, and it was more useful, and the same with repair. Though I've only heard repair being useful for the vehicles. Science is still sorely neglected in large part, according to many.

>
>>
>>So far, this is a bug
>>hunt. Just like BC3k,
>>SFC2, Fallout 2, and many
>>other recent Interplay games.
>>Some people can't even INSTALL
>>the damn thing, much less
>>play or try to play
>>it. If you're not
>>having noticible problems, then good
>>luck. Many people have
>>already have had immense problems,
>>even making it to the
>>last mission and then have
>>the game crash and burn
>>hard, sometimes taking all their
>>saved games along with it.
>
>Err, I've never heard that. What
>kind of error are you
>suggesting would arbitrarily delete all
>a person's save games?

One that, while accessing someone's savegame information, takes and shits all over itself to the point of corrupting it horrendously. I've had problems with this computational mind-job taking out my entire OS on my other box.

>The game crashes on me every
>4 or 5 hours, but
>it's not really a problem
>unless you take Tough Guy.
>Obviously this is still unacceptable
>though.

Indeed, it is. Particularly when some can't even install, or when the game crashes within 5 minutes, or even on the map screen. No warning, no real reason. No continutity as far as if there's a hardware hiccup either, but the odd thing is that all my devices are DirectX certified. Particularly my SBLive and especially my Voodoo3 3000. The crashes aren't a sole problem of my V5 chipset.

>>And yet it's touted up the
>>yin-yang. And which, multiplayer
>>is about the only redeeming
>>factor of this game.
>>I also don't think that
>>there's going to be any
>>turn-based multiplayer matches.
>
>I play turn-based multiplayer actually. It's
>not really strategic otherwise. Realtime
>mode is pretty nice in
>single player when you're not
>in a life-or-death battle.

Must not be with too many people, or they take their turns rather quickly. I've heard about a MP TB game that took a while to play.

>>It was meant to be a
>>tactical game in the Fallout
>>Universe. In which, it
>>does both, poorly.
>
>Actually it's pretty good as a
>tactical game, the major problems
>are the way it does
>the fallout universe.

I'm guessing you've not played Jagged Alliance 2. Common opinion of those who have played that, and from what I've gathered from the demos and first mission, is that this entirely pales to JA2.

If you haven't already, check JA2 out. It's TB for the most part, relying on the 'sequence' of each person, but it's much better than what I've seen of this.

CTB amounts to seeing who can get the other guy to pop their head up first and see if you can shoot it, turn-based has been done before and better. I'd probably hazard a guess JA2 could achieve more of a Fallout atmosphere if I got really drunk and pretended really well. Might not have to do that. It doen't have the dingy palette, but it does have the sparse landscape. Plus you have the ability to fully take advantage of the buildings and landscape than what I've seen of FOT. It can at least accomplish half of what Fallout Tactics is supposed to offer; if not Fallout, then for sure, Tactics.

[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------

[font color=white]INTERPLAY: REDEFINING BAD BUSINESS

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
Well, to speak up for the perhaps minority I have been playing for four or five days and have not had a SINGLE problem that was engine related. There is the wierd AI pause when your characters are detected at close range, and a few other odd engine-related choices made by Micro-Forte that I would not have chosen. The main problems for me are the inadequate manual, and the entire lack of personality. I'm amazed that the developer and publisher didn't see the lesson of JA2 and realize that personality in the team makes up for a lot of engine/graphics problems. Remember, too, how limited the amount of stuff was actually done in F1 and F2 to create personality in your team - it seemed like more and was effective, but the actual amount of dialogue was very small. I would have much preferred in Tactics to have fewer choices in team members and have some personality in them. As it stands there is no reason to care about any of them - which ironically makes it easier not harder to hit the reload button. I've been playing on hard mode and haven't found it all that hard for anyone with some skill at squad stuff (JA2 etc). I love the huge levels and the art, and will definitely enjoy the editor if it comes out...
 
RE: Depends:

When I told one of the Micro Forte people who worked on the game that I was writing a review of the game, their exact words were:

"Be nice.. Well, fuck that, be honest."

Micro Forte does want to know what people like about the title AND what they don't like. If you don't let them know the problems, how can they fix them?

http://www.clanculture.com/aoa/a4c/provsledge4.jpg
 
>Hmm, nothing else at all?


>What about vehicles

Vehicles are kind of odd. They don't appear on maps that don't allow vehicles, so you can't use them as a mobile locker.

They don't seem to pathfind around objects either. That just seems kind of odd to me.

> races

Fallout and Fallout 2 had NPCs that were non-human. Goris the DeathClaw, K-9, Dogmeat, Marcus the Supermutant, etc.

> complete control over npcs

Kind of sucks if you want to play Turn Based. :)

> the better way melee damage is computed

I do like melee. I just wish the Super Micro Sledge had a range of 2 like the Super Sledge did.

> how kamikaze is actually a useful trait now

Agreed.

> gas weapons, grenade launchers

Conversely, no 10MM weapons which were common as dirt in Fallout and Fallout 2. No .223 pistol. No 14MM pistol. The list goes on and on. Most of these weapons were common in Fallout because they were popular weapons when the bombs fell.

It seems lame to me that most of the weapons that were common in Fallout and Fallout 2 are missing from the game. Then they added things like the Sten Gun, which is a European WW2 SMG. Same thing goes for the M-14, which was WW2/Korean Era IIRC. There are even rifles from WW1!

> crouching

Nice touch, I agree.

> destructable barricades and such

These kind of annoy me. Why are some barricades destructible and some not?

> rooftop sniping, how first
>aid is actually useful sometimes
>now instead of just a
>poor man's doctor

Agreed.

> the new
>bandaged and winded statuses, etc.
>etc.

Bandaged seems to pop up a lot. I don't care much for it's frequency. I have a 114% First Aid on my doctor character. You'd think he'd be good at not bandaging so much. :)

Winded should go away with time as well. If you get the wind knocked out of you, it only lasts a few seconds.

> You're probobly not a
>fan of all of these,
>but I think we can
>agree that most of these
>are improvements.

Then again, there's things like total lack of options in missions, useless skills, bugs, nearly useless world map, things like the fact your experience is divided six ways instead of how many people you have, "stores" never restock, multiplayer is a lacking balance, etc.

http://www.clanculture.com/aoa/a4c/provsledge4.jpg
 
RE: Depends:

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-01 AT 11:26PM (GMT)[p]>Micro Forte does want to know
>what people like about the
>title AND what they don't
>like. If you don't let
>them know the problems, how
>can they fix them?

We've been voicing problems for...how long?

Also, it may come as a suprise...but HOW are they going to fix the aformentioned problems? A sequel looks highly unlikely, and to redesign part of the game when it's already been released...unlikely.

The bugs have been rampantly reported on the feedback forums, and the most prevalent one I've noticed is BOS.EXE crashes with a page fault, quite frequently. Last I looked, it and many other game-crippling issues weren't even mentioned at all in the bug-fix report.

[font color=orange]
--------------------------------------------
Dennis Leary stole my song! That...asshole!
--------------------------------------------
"Robert, your time has come!"

"OOOH! Thank you, Master!"

"Don't mention it."

*Robert explodes in a shower of sparks*
--------------------------------------------
It's me, Jack Brown! The wind-up ass-hole!
--------------------------------------------

[font color=white]INTERPLAY: REDEFINING BAD BUSINESS

=========================
Try Arcanum, by those who brought you the first Fallout:
http://fp.geocities.com/jonaac/2.jpg
 
>I'm guessing you've not played Jagged
>Alliance 2. Common opinion
>of those who have played
>that, and from what I've
>gathered from the demos and
>first mission, is that this
>entirely pales to JA2.
>
>If you haven't already, check JA2
>out. It's TB for
>the most part, relying on
>the 'sequence' of each person,
>but it's much better than
>what I've seen of this.

I prefer turn based really, real time strategy isn't really strategy at all. It's like calling Diablo a "real time rpg".
I have played JA2, JA, and Deadly Games, as well as all the X-com games and FFT. JA2 is unfortunately not multiplayer and not very user modifiable. There's some good stuff in it, like destructable building walls and such, but overall I think I prefer fot more so far.

>CTB amounts to seeing who can
>get the other guy to
>pop their head up first
>and see if you can
>shoot it, turn-based has been
>done before and better.
>I'd probably hazard a guess
>JA2 could achieve more of
>a Fallout atmosphere if I
>got really drunk and pretended
>really well. Might not
>have to do that.
>It doen't have the dingy
>palette, but it does have
>the sparse landscape. Plus
>you have the ability to
>fully take advantage of the
>buildings and landscape than what
>I've seen of FOT.
>It can at least accomplish
>half of what Fallout Tactics
>is supposed to offer; if
>not Fallout, then for sure,
>Tactics.

Only thing i've seen in JA2 in regards to cover that's not in fot is being able to hop over fences. Throwing weapons to teammates is nice too, but doesn't really fall under the heading of uses of cover. I'm really not dissapointed with the tactics portion of FOT much at all. What dissapoints me mainly is the story and un-falloutness of much of it. No dialog trees is certainly dissapointing, but note that JA2 doesn't have such things either if we're comparing them. JA2 was also much more repetitive than even FOT, as ALL the missions were "kill enemies alot".

Don't get me wrong, FOT isn't everything I hoped it would be, not by a long shot, but I certainly don't think it's as bad as everyone else seems to. Once all the bugs are out, you're left with a fairly solid strategy title that's user modifiable. I know I plan to work on my own multiplayer + campaign mod the minute the editor comes out.
 
>> races
>
>Fallout and Fallout 2 had NPCs
>that were non-human. Goris the
>DeathClaw, K-9, Dogmeat, Marcus the
>Supermutant, etc.

Whom you couldn't control is really what I meant. You couldn't even control their advancement and such.

>> complete control over npcs
>
>Kind of sucks if you want
>to play Turn Based. :)

Nah, you have to wait around for your characters to act in FO2 anyway, and they typically do extremely idiotic things. Wouldn't take me much longer to tell marcus the rocket launcher at the guy who isn't right next to k9.

>
>> gas weapons, grenade launchers
>
>Conversely, no 10MM weapons which were
>common as dirt in Fallout
>and Fallout 2. No .223
>pistol. No 14MM pistol. The
>list goes on and on.
>Most of these weapons were
>common in Fallout because they
>were popular weapons when the
>bombs fell.

I'm not crying over the 14mm pistol for sure. Possibly one of the most useless weapons in either game. I'd almost rather have a stack of flares.

>
>> destructable barricades and such
>
>These kind of annoy me. Why
>are some barricades destructible and
>some not?

Well yeah, it'd be nice if everything was destructable, but in a game with so much art already, it'd maybe be more trouble than it was worth.


>Winded should go away with time
>as well. If you get
>the wind knocked out of
>you, it only lasts a
>few seconds.

Yeah, it does go away with time, but it takes an hour which seems somewhat silly.

>
>> You're probobly not a
>>fan of all of these,
>>but I think we can
>>agree that most of these
>>are improvements.
>
>Then again, there's things like total
>lack of options in missions,
>useless skills, bugs, nearly useless
>world map, things like the
>fact your experience is divided
>six ways instead of how
>many people you have, "stores"
>never restock, multiplayer is a
>lacking balance, etc.

Alot of people have said the experience system is a good thing since it prevents people from making one super character in single player, and forces them to fight as a team. Science is pretty useless now, but there's actually a net gain of useful skills since traps and first aid are both useful now. Hopefully in mod campaigns we'll see some creative uses of the science skill, I know in mine...
 
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