M.A.D.? No, just Perimeter.
- Thread starter SuAside
- Start date
Big Feet said:
Oh, seeing how Sarkozy and Brown are giving the US a collective blowjob I doubt they'd think twice before joining in. "Peaceful" Japan would be interested as well. Hell, with a little luck, it would be a UN action before you know it, to save the poor North Koreans from their insane leaders, and at the same time conveniently getting commercial opportunities.
The US going in alone would batter N.Korea to a bloody pulp.
NATO has no mandate or members in Asia so unless North Korea directly attacked the US i doubt you would be seeing members falling over themselves to get involved in a land war in Asia.
As part of a UN mission maybe,but by the time the UN got around to doing something,if anything,most of it would be over except for the crying.
Now whether the US,Japan,and South Korea could eventually destroy the North Korean army is immaterial.The damage done during that time would be huge.At the very least the South would be counting its civilian casualties alone in the 100,000's.Not to mention conventional missles hitting Japan.
Also no one knows how Russia and China would react.
A war on the Korean peninsula,even a short one,would make the last 8 years in Afghanistan and Iraq look like an extended training exercise.
As part of a UN mission maybe,but by the time the UN got around to doing something,if anything,most of it would be over except for the crying.
Now whether the US,Japan,and South Korea could eventually destroy the North Korean army is immaterial.The damage done during that time would be huge.At the very least the South would be counting its civilian casualties alone in the 100,000's.Not to mention conventional missles hitting Japan.
Also no one knows how Russia and China would react.
A war on the Korean peninsula,even a short one,would make the last 8 years in Afghanistan and Iraq look like an extended training exercise.
They're not likely to invade either. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in the North-Korean government is a retard, and they do realise what would happen if they did shit like that.Patton89 said:
All the power-plays so far serve a function of keeping Westerners out of the country, as the people in power probably realise very well that outside influence will eventually lead to their downfall.
Also, Big Feet, do you really, honestly think that there would be no military response if North Korea invaded the thorougly westernized South Korea, who also have a former diplomat as the current Secretary-General of the UN?
Look at Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, that got a very swift response as well. While South Korea does not have the oil reserves of Kuwait, its importance as an Asian ally and more importantly the public reaction to an unresponsive Western world would prompt a swift response.
There's also no way in hell that Russia would condone that, really, they would have nothing to gain in letting North Korea get away with that. The same essentially goes for China, although they are slightly more friendly with the North Koreans.
I'd also doubt the difficulties they'd have fighting North Korea, given the North Korean penchant for starving their own people.
Also note that the device has to be in an active alert status while that happens as well.victor said:
Also, people are fretting over more nuclear weapons for a number of reasons. The main political reason is the disturbance of a balance of power, any nation with nuclear weapons becomes more powerful and has more leverage. Aside from that, as more nations gain nuclear weapons, the likelihood of one of them being used at some point in time automatically increases.
Sander said:
I completely agree. Any ties North Korea has with Russia and China would immediately be severed if they pulled a stupid stunt like that. As I said, they might be bastards oppressing their own people, but they're definitely not idiots.
Patton89, don't forget the US has a large military interest in the Korean peninsula, not to mention a significant number of military bases in South Korea, many of these in the vicinity of Seoul, which would without a doubt be affected by a reckless and inaccurate "massive artillery strike" (I honestly doubt the validity and reality of this threat) on the south.
Seeing how pretty much all of the UN turned on North Korea in the 1950's, I think at least the UK and France would join the US in this. And as mentioned before, most nations in the West would defeat North Korea's armed forces in a matter of hours.
Sander said:
I didn't say China or Russia would offer overt military support to the North.They are part of the problem though in the 6 party talks.
I'm trying to figure out how to respond to the Kuwait/South Korea comparision without sounding like an asshole(and having no luck).
The fate of the wests economies does not rely on the free flow of cheap electronic goods and cars from the Korean peninsula as it does on the free flow of oil from Middle East.It also isn't the early 1990's anymore.Alot of the optimism from that time is gone.
Of course the North Koreans are not retards that is why they have been able to play the west like a fine tuned violin since the 90's.
But that doesn't mean they're actually going to be a problem if North Korea invades South Korea.Big Feet said:
Did you purposely ignore the paragraph where I explained that instead of oil, the importance of South Korea as an ally and most importantly western public response would prompt an invasion?Big Feet said:
South Korea is generally seen as a 'Western' country in Asia, similar to Japan. An invasion of that country by North Korea, which is seen as an evil nation anyway, would cause a huge public outcry for retribution.
No, but Big Feet mentioned it, and so does the spin media.
And yeah, South Korea is pretty much identical to Japan, geopolitically. They're de facto NATO.
And yeah, South Korea is pretty much identical to Japan, geopolitically. They're de facto NATO.
Sander said:
Why do you hate me?
I think you are overestimating the resolve of the West in coming to the aid of ideaological allies for no other reason than they are a democracy.
Any way my point wasn't to put European nations down but to point out that everyone saying the North would be handled eventually in the case of all out armed conflict have not taken into consideration the human toll that such a conflict would entail.
The Souths civilian population would be the hardest hit and suffer the largest losses.
All i'm sayingis keep that in mind.
Don't double post, there's an edit button for a reason.
I think you're underestimating the effect of public opinion on political action, and the relevance of South Korea as an ally. As victor noted, there is a pretty large US military presence in South Korea, and the west is invested in Japan and South Korea as their main partners in Asia.Big Feet said:
Yes, which is exactly why the North Koreans have those weapons, or at least want people to think they do: a war would be very costly in a variety of ways for the west and South Korea, so that the possibility of a war and the presence of nuclear weapons act as a deterrent against proactive actions against North Korea.Big Feet said:
Big Feet said:
Again, you ignored the fact that most US military installations are in or around Seoul, and for a very specific reason (shield effect). An artillery strike against a US military base has pretty obvious consequences.
And where did you get the idea that South Korea is "just an ideological ally"? It's both a strategic and economic alliance.
Even though there might be a large South Korean death toll from an artillery barrage (I still doubt such a capacity even exists; they might have the guns, but most of them probably don't even work anymore), North Korea would be flattened by massive carpet bombings after a day. The US keeps whole bomber fleets at the ready for this kind of attack.
There are about 37,000 US military personell in Korea.
They are not going to do jack should the north decide they are taking the south down along with them.
@ Sander
Sorry but i can't keep up with every reply by an edit and it would also be misleading if i replied before the fact.
I'm not trying to spam but i also don't want to be that guy answering a newer post in a previous one.
They are not going to do jack should the north decide they are taking the south down along with them.
@ Sander
Sorry but i can't keep up with every reply by an edit and it would also be misleading if i replied before the fact.
I'm not trying to spam but i also don't want to be that guy answering a newer post in a previous one.
Big Feet said:
Excuse me? So they're just going to sit there and be annihilated in a shitstorm of shells?
And the US government would just let it slide? "Yo North Korea I'm real happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but 37,000 casualties is nothing compared to World War 2".
You have a rather naïve view of international politics if you seriously think the United States would just terminate their strongest peace-term presence in a foreign country when North Korea decides to invade with their 1960's style army.
Bal-Sagoth
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Not to mention the massive roflstomp our own artillery and air munitions would deliver on those artillery positions. You really think we do not know the positions of said instillation?
I hate to play armchair General here but honestly, how long would it really take for us to have complete air superiority against North Korea, a matter of days?
After that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. We need not even get into what our ground forces would do. Naval and Air bombardment would cripple North Korea.
I hate to play armchair General here but honestly, how long would it really take for us to have complete air superiority against North Korea, a matter of days?
After that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. We need not even get into what our ground forces would do. Naval and Air bombardment would cripple North Korea.
Air superiority is a matter of hours, at the most. Their main fighter jet is the Mig-21 (most of which I'm guessing don't work), designed in the 1950's, so yeah...
Tough luck, use the edit button. Double posts are not allowed, that's all there is to it.Big Feet said:
And the US will retaliate heavily for any harmed US soldier, if only because public opinion will force them to do this. You are deluding yourself if you think North Korea could ever get away with something like that.
Now you're just grasping at straws. North Korea has very little in terms of extremely valuable natural resources. Guess what Iraq has.