Mafia III

[Ragemage]

I take great pride in my Southern heritage. The South is not just the Confederacy and the attempt to link the most shameful part of our past with our pride is something I'm disdainful of. The South should not laud the treason of Fort Sumter and its subsequent time but laud those who chose to rise above it and build a better life. Black and Whites together forming a community which I hope will continue to grow. Famous writers, artists, musicians, and heroes in war time.
.

Do I need to pull your quotes up again? You don't take pride in your own heritage, you think all of the Confederacy = RACIST and Traitors. For people like me, who had ancestors in the Confederacy (a great great grandfather was a general and a great great uncle was a private), I won't let you take a steaming piss on their graves just because YOU think that every single soldier and sympathizer in the South pre-1870s was apparently a big fat racist who deserve to be shot. This has nothing to do with defending slavery and racism, which I am NOT doing despite the fact you seem to think so by calling me out here. I am defending my ancestors from your lack of facts and your insistence that they were apparently bigots who deserved to die. As the old saying goes, Heritage not Hate. Once again you brought my anger upon yourself by not using your words carefully and calling ALL Confederates evil when you're talking about MILLIONS of peoples' ancestors, including mine. Do you want to actually listen to why Confederate soldiers fought? Have a listen to this song written by a Confederate soldier (and recreated by the 2nd Carolina String Band). It might open your sewn-shut eyes a bit.

 

[CT Phipps]

Do I need to pull your quotes up again? You don't take pride in your own heritage, you think all of the Confederacy = RACIST and Traitors.

If there was a Great Lie of History, it is certainly the one which convinced 359,528 had to die for an institution which made rich men richer and wasn't enough to fight for the rights of those freed by it thereafter. I hate the Confederacy and all it stood for and mourn those it murdered, particularly among its soldiers.

For people like me, who had ancestors in the Confederacy (a great great grandfather was a general and a great great uncle was a private), I won't let you take a steaming piss on their graves just because YOU think that every single soldier and sympathizer in the South pre-1870s was apparently a big fat racist who deserve to be shot.

My ancestors made a mistake by choosing to fight for the Confederacy. I also had ancestors who fought for the Union. I live in a Borderstate. My ancestors included men who died on BOTH sides and it was a tragic WASTE. It was not a heroic struggle for independence but one of the worst horrors in American history. I wish to God my ancestors hadn't had to die because of it.

I might have more family now if they hadn't been roped in.

This has nothing to do with defending slavery and racism, which I am NOT doing despite the fact you seem to think so by calling me out here. I am defending my ancestors from your lack of facts and your insistence that they were apparently bigots who deserved to die.

I don't think you're pro racism like other posters. Or pro-slavery. I think you're confusing supporting the Confederacy with supporting the South.

As the old saying goes, Heritage not Hate. Once again you brought my anger upon yourself by not using your words carefully and calling ALL Confederates evil when you're talking about MILLIONS of peoples' ancestors, including mine. Do you want to actually listen to why Confederate soldiers fought? Have a listen to this song written by a Confederate soldier (and recreated by the 2nd Carolina String Band). It might open your sewn-shut eyes a bit.

I fight Neo-Confederacy apologism which attempts to minimize the crimes of slavery or somehow make the uprising of the Confederacy to be something more moral or noble than it was. I see it more as a Rich Man's War of Oppression which then turned into a massive conscription of men to fight and die for a cause which was not their own. Public support among White Americans in the South was greatly behind slavery while Union support against slavery was tepid--which disappoints me terribly.

I will say causally saying shooting "Confederates" and "rednecks" was a poor choice of words even on a video game forum.

Still, I am particularly irritated by the Outlaw Josie Wales romantic image and look forward to Red Dead Redemption in hopes they will do something to poke holes in it.

 

[Kremin]

Could've sworn this thread was about something else..

 

[Ragemage]

If there was a Great Lie of History, it is certainly the one which convinced 359,528 had to die for an institution which made rich men richer and wasn't enough to fight for the rights of those freed by it thereafter. I hate the Confederacy and all it stood for and mourn those it murdered, particularly among its soldiers.

If there's a "Great Lie", it's the one you think, which is the one heralded by all the current history books and curriculum, which is the Confederacy was pure evil and anyone who supports it ever is a disgusting racist. It's true what they say, "History is written by the victors". For God's sake, when I was done with Elementary School I hated my own family. Oh they try to rope you straight away with that whopper. Thankfully I educated myself and I can proudly say I support what my ancestors stood for, which is to free themselves from Northern Aggression.

My ancestors made a mistake by choosing to fight for the Confederacy. I also had ancestors who fought for the Union. I live in a Borderstate. My ancestors included men who died on BOTH sides and it was a tragic WASTE. It was not a heroic struggle for independence but one of the worst horrors in American history. I wish to God my ancestors hadn't had to die because of it.

That's your own opinion. I'm glad that my family fought for what they thought was right. They both died believing they were doing good.

Public support among White Americans in the South was greatly behind slavery while Union support against slavery was tepid--which disappoints me terribly.

This is actually a falsehood once again purported by the victors. The South was actually MORE anti-slavery until the likes of John Brown and Nat Turner came along.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2714782?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

To summarize, the South was very steadily growing anti-slavery, and things were looking good. Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee both were reported as saying slavery would be finished by the end of the century. But then John Brown killed innocent people and tried to lead a slave revolt in the West. This terrorized people back home in the South, and many felt extremely indignant and insulted when the folks up North said that John Brown was apparently a hero despite murdering people and trying to lead a revolt that would kill an entire town. Then there was Nat Turner, who not only murdered his owner, but led a revolt that wound up killing 55 white people, including women and children. The North also supported this and said more slaves should rise up and do the same. This horrified the South for very obvious reasons and many people grew very afraid that more "John Browns" would start popping up and thus create more "Nat Turners" which would lead to whites dying in droves. Thus it was Northern abolitionists, ironically, because of their support of terrorists that put an end to the South's very quickly growing anti-slavery movement.

Could've sworn this thread was about something else..

It should be @Kremin, but I've been insulted and I will not turn the other cheek.

 

[CT Phipps]

I insult the Confederacy and its policies. It's you who takes that personally but while I laud your loyalty to your ancestors, I think they died in the service of an unworthy cause.

Which is a terrible shame.

Thank you for discussing this with me, though.

 

[TorontoReign]

Yeah, it's really touching guys. Now about that Mafia 3 amirite?

 

[Ragemage]

Yeah, it's really touching guys. Now about that Mafia 3 amirite?

Since Phipps is apparently giving up and this has gone on too long as it is, sure. I think the Mafia series should have stuck with what it did best, Italian Mafia cheesy goodness instead of whatever the Hell this is. For me, this game is like how Saints Row 2 went from being a partially silly game with a fun but kind of serious plot and then just cranking the "crazy" meter to 11 with the sequels, which diminished replayability and fun in my opinion.

 

[CT Phipps]

Since Phipps is apparently giving up and this has gone on too long as it is, sure. I think the Mafia series should have stuck with what it did best, Italian Mafia cheesy goodness instead of whatever the Hell this is. For me, this game is like how Saints Row 2 went from being a partially silly game with a fun but kind of serious plot and then just cranking the "crazy" meter to 11 with the sequels, which diminished replayability and fun in my opinion.

I have to admit I prefer Saints Row 2 to Saints Row 3 and 4. I like both Mafia I, II, and III for what they are. It's good to switch things up.

It's why I liked Sleeping Dogs. The Chinese setting kept the GTA formula fresh.

 

[TorontoReign]

Sleeping Dogs was really good. It's s shame the dev just went under. I plan on renting Mafia 3 at the Redbox.

 

[CT Phipps]

Some elements of the game which are good and bad:

*WARNING - SPOILERS*

1. There's two major talk radio stations in the game in "The Voice" and "Native Son" which basically represent the Pro-Black Power and the White Power perspectives of the game. I have to say, while my politics are particularly left, Native Son is much more entertaining because Nolan North has a BLAST as the smiles-and-knives behind his back Remy Duvall. Remy has a lot more character than the main bad guy and you can easily see how he is charming the public even if I didn't buy every aspect of his character. For example, no Old Money Southern Gentleman is going to demean himself by putting himself on the radio ala Rush Limbaugh. They OWN the radio stations, they don't appear on them. He's also a better antagonist to Lincoln than Sal who remains off-screen for most of the game while Remy is a constant presence.

2. There's actually a really interesting story which I thought was flavor but ties back into the main game. Basically, a white Korean war veteran kills two Black Vietnam veterans who come to his house to change a flat. The police want to let it go but the President and national attention demand he be arrested. Lincoln just says it's just bullshit and the man deserves to die for what was clearly a racially motivated killing. Then Father James says, "Actually, Lincoln, the reason he shot those two is because there's stories of a Black man dressed as a soldier running around the city killing white people by the dozens and lynching them from Ferris Wheels."
Oops.

3. The whole plot of the game is actually a fairly complicated Chinatown-esque real estate scam with Sal Marcano trying to build a casino in Louisiana as well as getting gambling legalized as a whole. The problem is that while Sal is a multimillionaire, this is a undertaking which will require several times his existing fortune and he knows if he gets investors, it'll just be the American mafia when the real reason he wants the casino is he can go straight as well as pay off the Comission so he's allowed to. He's afraid his son will be murdered like his brother was (by his wife) or his father (by his former boss). Except, of course, this requires him cheating the others out of the money of the Federal Reserve Heist that results in Lincoln getting Vito and Burke (who were entitled to a cut) as part of his gang as well as triggers Lincoln's Roaring Rampage of revenge.

Which, no surprise, gets Sal's son killed. Sal commits suicide if you don't kill him for it.

4. I give the credit for also giving gay representation in the game when I was least expecting it.



5. You also get the absolutely batshit ending scene which I loved.

 

[Vergil]

4. I give the credit for also giving gay representation in the game when I was least expecting it.

There are Garry's Mod machinimas with better animation than this what the hell? Mafia II didn't look nearly this "off". I'm not even just trying to hate for no reason it genuinely looks weird to me. Are all the scenes like this?
EDIT: Yea just to make sure it wasn't rosey nostalgia I looked up some cutscenes from Mafia II and even though it's older the cutscenes themselves look a lot better and smoother.

No big weird shadows over the main characters face, cinematography, nothing clipping, no weird ass lighting, lip sync is pretty good for the time etc. Did new guys work on Mafia III or what?


Also glad to know we got some gays in there to go ahead and rack up the progressive points even more, hey remember the Mafia?

 

[CT Phipps]

There are Garry's Mod machinimas with better animation than this what the hell? Mafia II didn't look nearly this "off". I'm not even just trying to hate for no reason it genuinely looks weird to me. Are all the scenes like this?
Also glad to know we got some gays in there to go ahead and rack up the progressive points even more, hey remember the Mafia?

Vergil, you know how much it pains me to agree with you but it I do note that the extensive plot of the game makes me wonder if the racial element was only tacked on later as you could easily have had this game star a white protagonist and it not affect anything as all of the game's major plot is something which could have been done with a Louisiana Italian kid.

Hell, being the veteran who returns to his mafia family only to have them attacked and him enact a horrible vengeance HAS been done.

I love the character of Lincoln Clay but wonder if the racial element shouldn't have been more central to the story. As is, it kind of feels like Assassins Creed Unity (which is a horrible-horrible comparison which automatically removes cool points) in that the ostensible main draw (The Revolution/Racially charged 1960s) is just a sideshow attraction.

You could easily have started the game as Vito's son or protege.

 

[Vergil]

Assassin's Creed Unity dropped the ball by not having the whole game be about hanging out with His Imperial Majesty the Emperor of the French Napoleon Bonaparte.

 

[CT Phipps]

Assassin's Creed Unity dropped the ball by not having the whole game be about hanging out with His Imperial Majesty Napoleon Bonaparte.

It's a rare game I can say that I would literally prefer to play any other character in the game than the protagonist--which isn't hyperbole as they all seem more interesting and less of a whiny [insert variety of descriptions].

Arno is my hands down least favorite assassin.

 

[Vergil]

Arno as a poor man's Ezio was better than boring ass Connor, and pretty much everyone else after Ezio besides the ACIV guy who was aight.
I'm guessing either Adewale or Aveline is your favourite.

 

[CT Phipps]

Arno as a poor man's Ezio was better than boring ass Connor, and pretty much everyone else after Ezio besides the ACIV guy who was aight.
I'm guessing either Adewale or Aveline is your favourite.

Say what you will about Connor but he was a doing rather than a whiner.

Edward Kenway is also my 2nd favorite Assassin but for the odd fact I really didn't think his character improved by becoming an Assassin as I much preferred him as a pirate.

Adewale was an enjoyable little story arc which exposed the hypocrisy of the assassins. They're going after the Templars when much more powerful and malignant evils were afflicting the world.

Aveline is....it takes a good amount of boring to make both New Orleans, slavery, and assassinations boring.

I actually literally don't UNDERSTAND Aveline's decisions for much of the game. Why is she doing X, Y, and Z?

 

[Vergil]

All the games after Revelations bar maybe IV as a pirate game are pretty much garbage anyway. Unity almost reaches not a shit game status but it's bogged down by so much other shit.

 

[CT Phipps]

All the games after Revelations bar maybe IV as a pirate game are pretty much garbage anyway. Unity almost reaches not a shit game status but it's bogged down by so much other shit.

Syndicate I felt was an enjoyably fun romp.

I also thought Rogue was quite good.

Albeit, Shay Patrick Cormac rivals Cait for bad Irish accents.

 

[Vergil]

Syndicate is the one with Karl Marx as a good guy and a trans girl in Victorian era london right? Yea, I passed on that one.

 

[CT Phipps]

Syndicate is the one with Karl Marx as a good guy and a trans girl in Victorian era london right? Yea, I passed on that one.

Karl Marx actually gets the brush off by the twins which is kind of amusing as he tries to recruit them to the Communist movement only for both of them to get the hell away from him ASAP.

Then again, A:S has the weirdest collection of historical figures to work with.

Because while you help Karl Marx a few times from getting killed, you also work for Benjamin Disraeli and Queen Victoria, Alexander Graham Bell, Charles Darwin, Dickens, Duleep Singh, and if you have PS4 Adam Worth. It's an eclectic cast from all parts of the political spectrum.

Not to mention the bizarre fact you're taking over London with street gangs despite, well, London being the most advanced and powerful nation on Earth.