Make the game work.

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[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-00 AT 08:28AM (GMT)[p]<< Maybe you should download a free copy of FreeDos and Moslow onto a floppy and use that to boot up the game? Maybe you mistake your lack of knowledge for lack of ability... it makes little difference. >>

Who says I haven't tried those things? I've tried every suggestion I could find for getting the game to run (even configuring my BIOS), still no go. How about you finish your 'high and mighty' trip and realize that it's possible the game doesn't run through no lack of effort or knowledge on my part?

<< To who? How will I recover the cost of my lost time, postage etc? What if I'm not based in the US at the time? >>

What are you going to do next? Start demanding movie theaters to refund your money for the movie (because it didn't live up to your standards), give you money for your time, and give you the gas money it took you to get there and back?

<< In any event, it is likely that many people put off the purchase because the CD was defective... reviews promising that "a patch is on the way?"... That's not enough. >>

Good, it looks like some people actually used their brains, rather than be mindless fan-boys.

<< Still, I suppose that misguided people such as yourself paid top dollar at the release date, suffered the bugs and inconvinience of a poorly completed game, faithfully reported these bugs on the IP board, and felt very important... Thank you, because I managed to purchase F2 at a bargain price with BG, and a patch was available for a (comparatively) trouble free, enjoyable game.

Yes, yes, I'm misguided for showing you that you are a hypocrite. You talk about how if a game is buggy you'll return it and insist that they give you a bug-free copy. Yet, you still own Fallout 2. Fallout 2 is still a buggy game, not as buggy as when it was initially released, but still pretty damned buggy.

Then, you go on to assume so much about me. That I bought FO2 the second it hit the shelves, and paid top dollar to beta test. This may surprise you, the patch was out for quite a few months before I even picked up FO2.

Please try to refrain from telling me what I know or have done, if you decide to reply to this.

Skie
 
>>Who says I haven't tried those things? I've tried every suggestion I could find for getting the game to run (even configuring my BIOS), still no go. How about you finish your 'high and mighty' trip and realize that it's possible the game doesn't run through no lack of effort or knowledge on my part?<<

The mere fact that you cannot accomplish something shouldn't indicate that success is impossible... why not describe your system and maybe someone can help you? If you STILL can't do it, remake the game! Then, and only then, can you honestly say that there was "no lack of effort or knowledge on (your) part".

>>What are you going to do next? Start demanding movie theaters to refund your money
>for the movie (because it didn't live up to your
>standards), give you money for your time, and give you the gas money it took you to get there and back?<<

A rather bad analogy don't you think? Comparing a defective good with a service! The fact is that many people don't insist upon their strict legal rights... litigation and out of court settlements are only feasible if the amount of cash at stake is substantial!

>>You talk about how if a game is buggy you'll return it and insist that they give you a bug-free copy. Yet, you still own Fallout 2. Fallout 2 is still a buggy game, not as buggy as when it was initially released, but still pretty damned buggy.<<

And to reflect that, I (most likely) purchased it at a much lower price than you did... sounds fair to me. In any event, what bugs did you encounter once the third generation patch was released?

>>Then, you go on to assume so much about me. That I bought FO2 the second it hit the shelves, and paid top dollar to beta test. This may surprise you, the patch was out for quite a few months before I even picked up FO2.<<

Which patch was available at that time? Maybe your computer is buggy too ;)

>>Please try to refrain from telling me what I know or have done, if you decide to reply to this.<<

If you fail to specify, surely others should have the right to speculate? And surely, if one is entitled to speculate, then one should be allowed to voice that opinion?
 
I've got wasteland running uper an appleII emulator. If you want the files they can be downloaded from.

users.50megs.com/crazyvasey/wasteland.zip
users.50megs.com/crazyvasey/wmanual.zip
users.50megs.com/crazyvasey/applewin.zip
 
I ADMIT IT! So you can shut up now. I bought Fallout 2 a little... late. Very late.

It's not my fault! When your only computer is a P-75 (yecch) and you have a 14.4 modem to download large patches, reviews did what they always do and deterred me.
 
<< The mere fact that you cannot accomplish something shouldn't indicate that success is impossible... why not describe your system and maybe someone can help you? >>

Perhaps not impossible, but very unlikely. There's a point at which the ammount of time put into getting a game to run isn't worth the entertainment value of the game.

<< If you STILL can't do it, remake the game! Then, and only then, can you honestly say that there was "no lack of effort or knowledge on (your) part". >>

Remake the game? How am I going to remake a game I've never played? How viable is this solution?

<< A rather bad analogy don't you think? Comparing a defective good with a service! The fact is that many people don't insist upon their strict legal rights... litigation and out of court settlements are only feasible if the amount of cash at stake is substantial! >>

Not really a bad analogy. They're both entertainment. I suppose I could always swap going to the theater with a video/dvd you've purchased. It fits all the same.

You're dissatisfied with the product. What are you going to insist on to be compensated for it?

<< And to reflect that, I (most likely) purchased it at a much lower price than you did... sounds fair to me. In any event, what bugs did you encounter once the third generation patch was released? >>

It makes little difference to me who paid more. You could have recieved it for free for all it matters.

I ended up getting stuck in the ring when I fought The Dragon or Lo Pan (don't remember which). I ended up killing him...and then got stuck there. There was no way to exit the ring.

My car ended up disappearing in New Reno (I've had it happen before with no problems). There was no way to find it through dialog or with a high perception.

Cassidy running through walls. Standing on the same hex as enemies. He also often times only had half a body.

I can't remember many others, but these were some of the more annoying ones.

<< Which patch was available at that time? Maybe your computer is buggy too >>

It's whatever the last one they made was. I don't remember the version number.

I suppose it's possible my computer is buggy, but I've never had any problems with any other games. Even ones that hadn't been patched.

<< If you fail to specify, surely others should have the right to speculate? And surely, if one is entitled to speculate, then one should be allowed to voice that opinion? >>

Sure, people have the right, but it's really a matter of courtesy. One could speculate anything they'd like provided they don't have any (or enough) information.

Perhaps if people would refrain from doing things because they're courteous, not from a lack of rights, the world would be a better place to live.

Skie
 
>>Perhaps not impossible, but very unlikely. There's a point at which the ammount of time put into getting a game to run isn't worth the entertainment value of the game.

So the real issue is one of preference, not impossibility... which is what I suggested from the start ;)

>>Remake the game? How am I going to remake a game I've never played []How viable is this solution?

Wasteland can also be played on the Apple II and C64... maybe you could try using an original (as opposed to pirated) version of Wasteland, or download another copy from a different abandonware site.. Why give up at such an early juncture?

>>Not really a bad analogy. They're both entertainment. I suppose I could always swap going to the theater with a video/dvd you've purchased. It fits all the same.

What if I go to a travel agent for a "wonderful holiday" in Tahiti, and when I arrive, me and my wife are sent to an overcrowded dive instead of a resort? A holiday can be considered entertainment... given the cost of the holiday, the disgruntled holidaymaker is entitled to sue for all reasonable costs incurred, as well as damages for emotional distress (the purpose of the holiday being entertainment)

>You're dissatisfied with the product. What are you going to insist on to be compensated for it?

Time wasted, expenditure incurred (provided that it is not too remote).. rather obvious. Of course, this must be large enough to make hiring a lawyer economically feasible

>>It makes little difference to me who paid more. You could have recieved it for free for all it matters.

Buggy CD software at a lower price than a properly working game? Sounds a bit fairer than paying full retail price to assist IP's quality control department... if you can't see the difference, then you'll probably buy a shoddy house for the same price as a decent one. Takes all sorts I guess...

>>I ended up getting stuck in the ring when I fought The Dragon or Lo Pan (don't remember which). I ended up killing him...and then got stuck there.

Never happened with my install

>>My car ended up disappearing in New Reno (I've had it happen before with no problems).

Maybe somebody STOLE it! We're talking about New Reno here!

>> There was no way to find it through dialog
>or with a high perception.

How high was your intelligence? I'm kidding, stranger things have happened I suppose.. ;)

>>Cassidy running through walls. Standing on the same hex as enemies. He also often times only had half a body.

He's an old guy, he gets confused... you should retire him and take on a more reliable NPC ;)

>>I can't remember many others, but these were some of the more annoying ones.

I envy you... did you fufil your role as part of IP's quality control dept and report these problems? I never came across any of these bugs... and I played the game several times... did they occur after you defeated the enclave?

>>It's whatever the last one they made was. I don't remember the version number.

What you mean to say is "I don't know"... There's nothing wrong with ignorance, but it is a shame to do nothing about it.

>>Sure, people have the right, but it's really a matter of courtesy. One could speculate anything they'd like provided they don't have any (or enough) information.

What is not expressed must be implied... by stating the bizzare proposition that it is acceptable to distribute thousands of CDs with defective software across the world as "desirable", surely we have no choice but to speculate as to your unstated rationale (if not your sanity!) ;)

>>Perhaps if people would refrain from doing things because they're courteous, not from a lack of rights, the world would be a better place to live.

Stripped of custom, courtesy merely seeks to spare others embarrasment.. in your case, it appeared that the damage had already been done..

I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
 
<< So the real issue is one of preference, not impossibility... which is what I suggested from the start ;) >>

No, you stated it was a lack of knowledge and effort. The problem is, I have run out of ideas. As have the people I've asked for help on this with. But, this topic has moved on a bit from the original statement.

<< Wasteland can also be played on the Apple II and C64... maybe you could try using an original (as opposed to pirated) version of Wasteland, or download another copy from a different abandonware site.. Why give up at such an early juncture? >>

Where would I find an original version of Wasteland? It's not like you can find it in stores.

I've tried multiple abandoneware sites. I've tried a bunch of different suggestions. The point is, the game doesn't want to work on my computer.

<< Time wasted, expenditure incurred (provided that it is not too remote).. rather obvious. Of course, this must be large enough to make hiring a lawyer economically feasible >>

So the problem is it's not worth your time and money.

<< Buggy CD software at a lower price than a properly working game? Sounds a bit fairer than paying full retail price to assist IP's quality control department... if you can't see the difference, then you'll probably buy a shoddy house for the same price as a decent one. Takes all sorts I guess >>

No, you purchased buggy software for a cheaper price than me. Five to ten dollars isn't a big deal to me (if you even saved that much more than me).

It's a completely different situation than the house. I suppose you would go on and on about buying a shoddy house for $10 less than someone else paid as well...?

Do you tell others how you saved $2.50 at the theater by going to the matinee? Or how you saved money by waiting for the movie to be at the video store before watching it?

>>My car ended up disappearing in New Reno (I've had it happen before with no problems).<<

<< Maybe somebody STOLE it! We're talking about New Reno here! >>

::sigh:: Of course someone stole it. But, there was no way to get it back. There was no dialog paths, you couldn't see the tire tracks with a high perception. Do you understand what I'm saying? It was stolen, but was irretrievable.

When the game works, the car gets stolen. You then have 3-4 ways to get to the chop shop. Those ways weren't available. None of them.

>>I can't remember many others, but these were some of the more annoying ones.>>

<< I envy you... did you fufil your role as part of IP's quality control dept and report these problems? I never came across any of these bugs... and I played the game several times... did they occur after you defeated the enclave? >>

I did report the problems. It did no good. There ended up being no patches after the V1.02D one. I must have missed the whole beta testing time frame by not buying the game when it came out.

I didn't see any point in continuing the game after defeating the enclave.

>>It's whatever the last one they made was. I don't remember the version number.<<

<< What you mean to say is "I don't know"... There's nothing wrong with ignorance, but it is a shame to do nothing about it. >>

No, I said what I meant. I could have said, "It was the 1.02 patch." The problem was, that's not all the information; and I would hate to have you speculate any further. But, I checked up on it; and it was the V1.02D US patch.

Yes, you've shown your ignorance quite a few times in this discussion. Like, most of the times you've speculated. You've just thrown it out there proudly. It's a shame you do nothing about it.

<< Stripped of custom, courtesy merely seeks to spare others embarrasment.. in your case, it appeared that the damage had already been done.. >>

There you go attempting to be witty, again. It's really a pity you feel the way you do, though. I was trying to save you from embarassment. But, I suppose I'll continue to correct you as you speculate.

Skie
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-00 AT 05:33PM (GMT)[p]argh


The wanderer
 
>So the real issue is one of preference, not impossibility... which is what I suggested from the start ;)

>>No, you stated it was a lack of knowledge and effort. <<

You lack effort: that sounds like a preference... you lack the requisite desire to obtain knowledge... that, once again, is a preference (at least in these times)... I admit that I find your naive fatalism interesting, if nothing else :)

>>Where would I find an original version of Wasteland? It's not like you can find it in stores.

Maybe you should look harder, or look smarter... It was released on a compilation CD called "25th Aniversary" or somesuch... many Wasteland fansites could tell you this..

>>different suggestions. The point is, the game doesn't want to work on my computer.

Naughty game... but what will you do about it?

>>No, you purchased buggy software for a cheaper price than me. Five to ten dollars isn't a big deal to me (if you even saved that much more than me).

A 50% discount is more than 5-10 bucks... why not pay fair value?

>>It's a completely different situation than the house. I suppose you would go on and on about buying a shoddy house for $10 less than someone else paid as well...?

That's why you usually enter into an contract subject to building inspector's report, subject to valuation, subject to finance etc etc... it's all about paying a fair price for what you buy...if you buy a house, you realise the risk of latent or hidden defects not amenable to a simple inspection.. just like the F2 CD!

>>When the game works, the car gets stolen. You then have 3-4 ways to get to the chop shop. Those ways weren't available. None of them.

Given that someone most likely told you what was supposed to happen, one can only conclude that they had a properly working version of the game and you didn't.... the most likely conclusion is that you failed to apply the patch properly, or that your hardware or OS setup has problems.

>>I did report the problems. It did no good. There ended up being no patches after the V1.02D one. I must have missed the whole beta testing time frame by not buying the game when it came out.

So they ignored you? That's not very nice. Given that they anticipated that would probably do nothing more about it, it was a most cost effective choice!

>>I didn't see any point in continuing the game after defeating the enclave.

Then you missed some interesting parts of the game...

>>Yes, you've shown your ignorance quite a few times in this discussion.

Ignorance is probably a relative thing -- as you well know :) ... I imagine that everyone is "ignorant" to some degree, especially if discussing something outside their experience.... one could say your opinions are a descent to ignorance... but that again is a matter of opinion

>> Like, most of the times you've speculated. You've just thrown it out there proudly. It's a shame you do nothing about it.

Most Nobel Prize winners were notable for their willingness to speculate and test their theories, ideas, and insights... in spite of criticism... time will tell I suppose...

>>There you go attempting to be witty, again.

I wasn't trying to be witty, merely offering a dissenting commentary and point of view... take a chill pill
 
<< Maybe you should look harder, or look smarter... It was released on a compilation CD called "25th Aniversary" or somesuch... many Wasteland fansites could tell you this.. >>

Yes, I know this. But, it was released over two years ago. It's harder finding the compilation that includes Wasteland, than it was to find the X-COM compilation.

<< Naughty game... but what will you do about it? >>

Simple solution: Wait until I get a new computer and start over. If it works on that, then it was a compatibility issue...which would explain alot.

Simple solution 2: Buy a 486 with DOS6.22 for the sole purpose of playing Wasteland.

This is my attempt to bring this whole topic back to where it started.

You said, "Suppose you decide to play that FO2 CD of yours twenty years from now... that patch might not be available."

The point I was trying to convery in my response: "Most people who decide to play FO2 in 20 years are going to have more problems than a couple bugs."

<< A 50% discount is more than 5-10 bucks... why not pay fair value? >>

Oh, so you're not talking about me, you're talking about the people who purchased the game for $45-$50? This really has no bearing on where this topic has gone.

<< Given that someone most likely told you what was supposed to happen ... the most likely conclusion is that you failed to apply the patch properly, or that your hardware or OS setup has problems. >>

No, I've had it work right before. For some reason it decided to not work. From what I've heard of other people who applied the patch, they also continued to have problems with the car. Sounds like a bug to me. Perhaps we all have problems with our hardware or OS.

<< Ignorance is probably a relative thing -- as you well know :) ... I imagine that everyone is "ignorant" to some degree, especially if discussing something outside their experience.... one could say your opinions are a descent to ignorance... but that again is a matter of opinion >>

I'm not exactly sure if an opinion in and of itself can be ignorant. It's essentially a view on something. Being a perspective it can't really lack knowledge.

<< Most Nobel Prize winners were notable for their willingness to speculate ... >>

So, win a Nobel Prize for wrongly speculating when I purchased the game. Or what methods I've tried to get Wasteland working. Not exactly Nobel Prize worthy.

<< I wasn't trying to be witty, merely offering a dissenting commentary and point of view... >>

That's the problem with the internet, without a tone of voice it's difficult to tell ones intentions. Generally, when people make similar comments, they are attempting to be witty. As I didn't know your intentions, I chose to speculate on them. Judging from your, "take a chill pill," comment; I must have been inconsiderate. I apologize.

Skie
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-00 AT 02:43PM (GMT)[p]Right, sorry about those attacks. I didn't intend to start name calling like an AOLer, its just I get offended when people reply to topics with wierd slang. Nothing personal.

But what your saying is just because people have grown ot like the type of game fallout is we should settle for defective products? And are you saying that Interplay and BIS purposely made the patch big and scary to frighten away people with a 28.8 modem? The most common modem is 28.8 or 56.k, which still takes a while to download a few megs. Thats just the kind of imge most companies try to avoid. Not everyone has or can affored speedy connections.

and Just because it carries the name Fallout we should buy it even if it had just a brick in the box? If a box filled with feces and urine had the Fallout name on it would you buy it and love it? NO! You'd see you didn't get what you paid for and you'd get pissed and want a product that worked. And down the line, when Fallout is under the "Greatest Games of all Time" Category on websites, that already obscure and hard to find patch isn't going to be around, so people will get the impression that Interplay and Black Isle take it's customers for idiots who'll buy anyting from them. thats not right.

~TheGate, but soon to be Crowley.
 
>>Yes, I know this. But, it was released over two years ago. It's harder finding the compilation that includes Wasteland, than it was to find the X-COM compilation.

My secretary advises you to check out http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=474170159

>>The point I was trying to convery in my response: "Most people who decide to play FO2 in 20 years are going to have more problems than a couple bugs."

You're restating an opinion... given that Linux is open source, and WINE is also open source, anyone with a C compiler (and the F2 CD) will be able to play the game... albiet on a more powerful system... so I opine the opposite way. Even with 64-bit x86 architecture, it is probable that an emulator would be developed given the number of 32-bit applications (far cheaper than porting)... In any event... it's not Interplay's job to ensure that f2 runs on a future PC, only the one specified on the box... it failed. Software purchasers seem to be too forgiving in this respect... The box promises a CD with a game that will work fine on the computer specified..

>>Oh, so you're not talking about me, you're talking about the people who purchased the game for $45-$50? This really has no bearing on where this topic has gone.

Why shouldn't consumers pay a fair price? Early purchasers get burned, spread the word, and the shops reduce the game's price to a fairer amount to move stock... the free market in action... Overall, IP makes less revenue... but it has other titles to offset this..

>>No, I've had it work right before. For some reason it decided to not work. From what I've heard
of other people who applied the patch, they also continued to have problems with the car. Sounds like a bug to me. Perhaps we all have problems with our hardware or OS.

It could be a feature... maybe sometimes the thieves leave a trail, other times they don't... it's cheaper than creating a new patch

>>I'm not exactly sure if an opinion in and of itself can be ignorant. It's essentially a view on something. Being a perspective it can't really lack knowledge.

I'd say that most opinions are a conclusion based on knowledge and experience... a baby couldn't be said to have an informed opinion on the C# or Java debate, but it may know that Mother's milk is nicer than cows' milk...
 
As much fun as it is to see you two argue...

I think the off-topicness of the things you're discussing now warrants me to tell you it's time to take it to the general forum or email.


"The best trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist."
 
I didn't mean that I'd buy a post nuclear piece of crap but that I'd choose Fallout 3 over EXTREME YODELER 2001 EDITION. I see how this could have come across the wrong way :)

I'm too tired to argue... so no more arguments, I just want to correct you in that what I meant by the modem thing was not that interplay was a masochistic company which liked to get eeensy weensy sales, but that the average modem speed taking a while to download multiple-meg patches is one of the downs of late-patched games.

Try again later. I can not answer that at this time. Absolutely not. Perhaps. Maybe. LET ME OUTTA THIS 8-BALL. Of course.
 
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