Men smarter than women?

DirtyDreamDesigner

Venerable Relic of the Wastes
Moderator
Manchester Evening News

A University of Manchester study, which claims to be one of the biggest-ever of human intelligence, appears to show an inherent IQ gap between the sexes.

They claimed to find men performed marginally, but consistently, better than women, irrespective of age, ethnicity or social background.

Dr Irwing, an organisational psychologist from Manchester Business School, said men had on average five more IQ points than women of the same background.

He said: "The sample we used was huge and gave very consistent results."

Meh. I kinda always knew that. Might explain why Fallout is more popular among men. :wink:

Your thoughts?
 
Can't wait to see more of the feminist reaction to this one.

A while back a professor said that men were inherintly better at maths than women, and the feminist went up in arms.

At the same time, feminist are pushing that men are more violent than woman and have a crappy emotional dealage(word?) capacity.
 
Doesn't surprise me one bit. Women are intellectualy inferior to men. Always have been, always will be. They are less creative, less innovative and less inventive.

Women are only good for cooking, cleaning and sucking dick.

:twisted:
 
Specialist said:
Can't wait to see more of the feminist reaction to this one.

That always kinda irritates me.

If stuff can be scientifically proven, then I wonder what the hell they have to protest against. It's like saying 'Ethiopians are better at running' - and then getting called a racist. Rly. I've seen it happen.

Next think you know, it'll be considered sexist to use the word 'woman' in the first place...
 
Jebus said:
Next think you know, it'll be considered sexist to use the word 'woman' in the first place...

There's rabid foam-in-the-mouth feminists out there that refuse to spell it woman. To them, it's womyn. It's un-fucking believable. They're taking over the world.

Hell, from what I've read about the political atmosphere in Sweden, it's run by feminists.
 
The devil is in the detail, so DDD, find out what the test was and where they drew their sample space from, cos there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.

Personally, it sounds like crap, but hey, who knows until they see the entire documentation for the survey. I'm just not gonna go on results.


EDIT: The 'Manchester Evening News' isn't a tabliod is it? Because it sure as hell seems like one, and I never trust anything an english tabliod prints. Come to think of it, I have never come across a tabliod that ever prints anything other than total crap. Give me an Age to ease my pain, please.
 
I know I'm still new here and consequently haven't had the privilege of reading a large part of the posts written here, but from what I could gather this is predominantly a "male club" society - thus it's seems kind of unfair to engage in such a one-sided "discussion" without even attempting to “tell the other side of the story”. From what I have learned by reading psychology literature there really does exist a considerable anatomical and physiological difference in male and female brains to the point, that some scientists believe, it warrants the need of calling them “sexual organs”. Men have 10% heavier brains and 4% more neurons then women on average, but it is reported that women have more dendritic connections between the brain cells. In addition, I've read that a woman's brain has a larger corpus collusum (a tissue interconnecting the hemispheres) , which means women can transfer data between the right and left hemisphere faster than men. Men tend to be more left brained, while women have greater access to both sides. For men, language is most often just in the dominant hemisphere (usually the left side), but a larger number of women seem to be able to use both sides for language. This gives them a distinct advantage, especially so in case of a stroke. If for example it were to occur in the left front side of the brain, she may still retain some language from the right front side. Men who have the same left sided damage are less likely to recover as fully. Current research has demonstrated that females, on average, have a larger deep limbic system than males. This gives females several advantages and disadvantages. Due to the larger deep limbic brain women are more in touch with their feelings, they are generally better able to express their feelings than men. They have an increased ability to bond and be connected to others (which is why women are the primary caretakers for children - there is no society on earth where men are primary caretakers for children). Females have a more acute sense of smell, which is likely to have developed from an evolutionary need for the mother to recognize her young. Having a larger deep limbic system leaves a female somewhat more susceptible to depression, especially at times of significant hormonal changes such as the onset of puberty, before menses, after the birth of a child and at menopause. Women attempt suicide three times more than men. Yet, men kill themselves three times more than women, in part, because they use more violent means of killing themselves (women tend to use overdoses with pills while men tend to either shoot or hang themselves) and men are generally less connected to others than are women. Disconnection from others increases the risk of completed suicides.

Almost all studies show that at birth, a boy's brain is bigger than a girl's brain. At birth, the average brain of boys is between 12-20% larger than that of girls. The head circumference of boys is also larger (2%) than that of girls. However, when the size of the brain is compared to body weight at this age, there is almost no difference between boys and girls. So, a girl baby and a boy baby who weigh the same will have similar brain sizes.
In adults, the average brain weight in men is about 11-12% MORE than the average brain weight in women. Men's heads are also about 2% bigger than women's. Remember though, men on average weigh more than women and that absolute brain size may not be the best measure of intelligence. Many behavioral differences have been reported for men and women. For example, it has been said that women are better in certain language abilities and men are better in certain spatial abilities. Many studies have tried to find differences in the right and left cerebral hemispheres to suggest that male and female brains are different. However, few of these experiments have found meaningful differences between men and women. If fact, there are many similarities between the cerebral hemispheres of men and women.

The major pathway that connects the right and left cerebral hemispheres is called the corpus callosum. (The corpus callosum is the fiber tract made up of 200-250 million axons that is cut in split brain patients.) Some claims have been made that the corpus callosum is bigger and more developed in women than in men. These claims have even been reported in the popular media (Time Magazine, Jan. 20, 1992, pp. 36-42; Newsweek Magazine, March 27, 1995, pp. 51). However, other studies have told a different story. Using magnetic resonance imaging methods, some researchers have found no differences in the size of the corpus callosum in men and women. Further research that compares the size of the corpus callosum size in men and women is needed.

Preoptic Area of the Hypothalamus

This area of the hypothalamus is involved in mating behavior. In males of several species including humans, the preoptic area is greater in volume, in cross-sectional area and in the number of cells. In men, this area is about 2.2 times larger than in women and contains 2 times more cells. Apparently, the difference in this area is only apparent after a person is 4 years old. At 4 years of age, there is a decrease in the number of cells in this nucleus in girls. The exact function of this nucleus in behavior is not fully known.

None of the articles I read ever suggested any difference in IQ scores for sexes on average, but in some test areas certain differences do exist, but it's nothing new really: women tend to do better at language related tasks, while men have better spatial perception and memory. What I did find out, is that a more closer analysis reveals that the standard deviation in IQ scores is much bigger in males than females, which explains why on average among the dumber part of the populace men tend to dominate (part of the reason for this is that male brains are more prone to neurological degeneration than female ones), but also so among the top IQ scorers as well.

Intelligence in men and women is a gray and white matter

Men and women use different brain areas to achieve similar IQ results, UCI study finds

Irvine, Calif. , January 20, 2005
While there are essentially no disparities in general intelligence between the sexes, a UC Irvine study has found significant differences in brain areas where males and females manifest their intelligence.
The study shows women having more white matter and men more gray matter related to intellectual skill, revealing that no single neuroanatomical structure determines general intelligence and that different types of brain designs are capable of producing equivalent intellectual performance.
“These findings suggest that human evolution has created two different types of brains designed for equally intelligent behavior,” said Richard Haier, professor of psychology in the Department of Pediatrics and longtime human intelligence researcher, who led the study with colleagues at UCI and the University of New Mexico. “In addition, by pinpointing these gender-based intelligence areas, the study has the potential to aid research on dementia and other cognitive-impairment diseases in the brain.”
Study results appear on the online version of NeuroImage.
In general, men have approximately 6.5 times the amount of gray matter related to general intelligence than women, and women have nearly 10 times the amount of white matter related to intelligence than men. Gray matter represents information processing centers in the brain, and white matter represents the networking of – or connections between – these processing centers.
This, according to Rex Jung, a UNM neuropsychologist and co-author of the study, may help to explain why men tend to excel in tasks requiring more local processing (like mathematics), while women tend to excel at integrating and assimilating information from distributed gray-matter regions in the brain, such as required for language facility. These two very different neurological pathways and activity centers, however, result in equivalent overall performance on broad measures of cognitive ability, such as those found on intelligence tests.
The study also identified regional differences with intelligence. For example, 84 percent of gray-matter regions and 86 percent of white-matter regions involved with intellectual performance in women were found in the brain’s frontal lobes, compared to 45 percent and zero percent for males, respectively. The gray matter driving male intellectual performance is distributed throughout more of the brain.
According to the researchers, this more centralized intelligence processing in women is consistent with clinical findings that frontal brain injuries can be more detrimental to cognitive performance in women than men. Studies such as these, Haier and Jung add, someday may help lead to earlier diagnoses of brain disorders in males and females, as well as more effective and precise treatment protocols to address damage to particular regions in the brain.
For this study, UCI and UNM combined their respective neuroimaging technology and subject pools to study brain morphology with magnetic resonance imaging. MRI scanning and cognitive testing involved subjects at UCI and UNM. Using a technique called voxel-based morphometry, Haier and his UCI colleagues converted these MRI pictures into structural brain “maps” that correlated brain tissue volume with IQ.
Dr. Michael T. Alkire and Kevin Head of UCI and Ronald A. Yeo of UNM participated in the study, which was supported in part by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development.

Thus, as far as I'm concerned your post holds little firm ground or none I should say (speaking from my own experience). Anyways, try to read some more articles on the subject and quote me those that support your belief. I'm really having a hard time finding those with an unbiased search. I really would like to write some more on the subject, but I've beach volleyball to play. And I'm still pissed that Filipovic lost the match to Emilianenko (PRIDE Heavyweight title match). Damn!!!
 
For men, language is most often just in the dominant hemisphere (usually the left side), but a larger number of women seem to be able to use both sides for language
From what I remember from, obviously, the most credible source ever; my year 12 psychology book, that's just wrong. Language is primarily in Broca's and Wernicke's(sp?) area. They're the ones that control sentence structure and proper content flow, and the actual movements in the mouth, throat etc. These are generally based in the left brain hemisphere, though some people do have it in their right (or something like that, I can't quite remember).
 
Damn good point about brain weight versus body weight, Max. Actually, damn good post all round. Another point to add - notice how women tend to be able to multi-task better than men? I sure as hell can't cut stuff up and hold a conversation at the same time.

Talking about brain weight versus body weight - it turns out this ratio has a greater effect on intelligence than actual brain size (if it were the other way round, dinosaurs would have had civilisation and blue whales would be masters of intellect.)

I think that the word intelligence has been bastardised by the intelligencia to mean too little. To them, it means how you score in a standardised test. To me, it is what you know, and how you apply it, be it academic stuff or sporting skills. Maybe we need a new word.
 
Muahahahahaha. Those comments on that article are brilliant. Several posts by outraged women who are calling the study bullshit and whatnot.
Pah. Yes, on average there may very well be such a difference between men and women. But you have to remember that that's on average, it says nothing whatsoever about an individual's intelligence. And as such, this study has basically no practical value at all.
What you always have to remember about statistics is that they say nothing about an individual.

Max: how is a statistical study showing that the standard deviation is different in men and women more likely to be true than a statistical study showing an average 5 point difference in IQ? Are you assuming the standard deviation study is true because it appeared sooner?
 
So far, Max appears to be the only woman to have posted in this thread, and she doesn't seem to be hugely upset about it.
 
ferdinand said:
So far, Max appears to be the only woman to have posted in this thread, and she doesn't seem to be hugely upset about it.

:rofl: Oh, man i loled at this one hard.

Anyways, I tried looking around the Manchester University pages a bit and I couldn't find a word about this. Maybe they just haven't posted it yet, maybe it's too controversial, who knows.
In any case, I just thought it might make an interesting discussion.

EDIT: oh, yeah, here's another linky. This time from BBC.

EDIT: Here's another extremely interesting link
 
Muahaha! I knew there was truth behind all the 'Belgians are dumb' jokes we have here. 10 IQ points. Suckers. ;)
 
Canadian children scored Full Scale IQ= 103.34, Verbal= 101.4, Performance = 104.96 on the (American) WISC-III. Source: Wechsler, D. (1996), Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children – Third Edition, Canadian Supplement. (Communicated by Dr. D. Saklofske).

Even canadian children are smarter! :lalala:

@Sander - CHECK YOUR PMS!
 
Sander said:
Muahaha! I knew there was truth behind all the 'Belgians are dumb' jokes we have here. 10 IQ points. Suckers. ;)

Oh c'mon, like that site has any credibility whatsoever...
 
ferdinand said:
So far, Max appears to be the only woman to have posted in this thread, and she doesn't seem to be hugely upset about it.
That'll be the day... :lol: Though seriously, you oughta take a better look at my profile, accepting you were not purposefuly making a joke there - in which case :ok:

Returning to the subject... here's a lil' article I read a while ago:

Brains of men and women only part of story in science

By Joan Ryan

It is one of those controversies that make you wonder how far feminism has really come.

Harvard President Lawrence Summers suggested recently that the difference in men's and women's brains could be one explanation for the dearth of women in tenured positions in science and engineering at the country's top universities. He has apologized repeatedly ever since, though the drums continue to beat for his removal.

Granted, Summers was probably not the right guy to be tackling the topic with this particular crowd of female academics, given his dismal record of hiring women at Harvard. But really, how can any person who has ever been married, or who has ever raised a child, deny that men's and women's brains function differently? Who among us hasn't wondered -- during a skirmish over the remote control, say -- whether our paths might have diverged somewhere along the evolutionary process?

I called Louann Brizendine, a psychiatry professor at UC San Francisco, to get her perspective. She seemed uniquely qualified to shed some light on the Summers brouhaha. She is a scientist at a top university, so she knows first-hand that the number of women in tenured positions in the sciences is abysmally low. But she's also in the midst of writing about the differences between men and women in a forthcoming book called "The Female Brain."

I wanted to know if she bought into the argument that "intrinsic aptitude" -- Summers' phrase -- keeps women out of the top tiers of science and engineering. Yes, she said, but not in the simple way Summers suggests.

It has nothing to do with the aptitude of men and women. It's all about the aptitude of boys and girls, she said. The differences are real, and they are the key to creating schools that will produce more female scientists.

If you cracked open a random human skull, you couldn't tell if the brain inside was male or female. The difference is in the circuitry and the time line on which it develops. Different abilities emerge at different ages for boys and girls.

Girls, Brizendine explained, develop language skills earlier than boys do; boys develop visual and spatial skills earlier than girls. By 2 1/2, many girls are actively choosing not to play with boys, not for any cultural or sociological reason but because boys have not yet grasped the concept of verbal give-and-take.

Boys, with their faster-developing spatial skills, are more likely to gravitate to building blocks and train sets and physical activities that require minimal verbal interaction. (And they are more likely to find themselves in altercations because they have poor external language to hammer out a solution and poorer internal language to mediate their impulses.)

These cognitive gaps between boys and girls close during high school, Brizendine said. Their brains catch up to each other. But here's the problem. By high school, boys have spent years reinforcing and strengthening their skills in math and science, and girls in language arts. They have been forming images of themselves as good in one thing, bad in the other.

Thus many girls avoid chemistry and calculus in high school, never giving themselves the chance to discover that their visual/spatial capabilities have caught up to the boys'. Many boys limit themselves to technical fields, unaware that their verbal aptitude has improved by their mid-teens.

"High school is the critical time for teaching science and math to girls if we want to attract more women into the science fields," Brizendine said. "It's critical to keep girls from getting demoralized in junior high and the first year or two of high school. We need teachers who have the ability and the knowledge to teach girls mathematics and science that best suits their style of learning."

The same, of course, is true for boys in the language arts.

"There is not someone there telling boys and girls that they have some different circuitry and they're not on the same developmental track," she said. "There is no one telling them that they are likely to catch up."

In other words, teachers and parents need to reintroduce subject matter at various times during a child's development: something that makes no sense this year, or even this semester, might make perfect sense the next. They need, perhaps most of all, to find ways to keep girls from giving up on math and science before their brains have developed the skills to excel.

Brizendine says girls also would do better on the math portion of the SAT if the test had no time constraints. Research shows that boys consistently register the highest scores on the math portion of the SAT because their brains process math problems -- what the researcher called "mental rotation problems" -- faster and more efficiently than female brains. When the test was untimed, the gender discrepancy in SAT math scores disappeared.

The dearth of women at the highest levels of math and science is, yes, about an ossified academic culture that doesn't recognize that female professors don't have wives to take care of the home and kids -- and thus can't work 80-hour workweeks and fly all over the country to present papers at conferences. It's also about male professors who tend to take male students under their wings to nurture and guide. And it's about discrimination, too, conscious or unconscious. Studies show that identical resumes are assessed differently depending on whether the name at the top is male or female.

But as Brizendine knows, it is also about the intricacies of the human brain. Instead of swooning at the very idea, as one female scientist in Summers' audience did, we need to acknowledge -- indeed, embrace -- our differences. How else will we ever be able to reshape the way we educate girls and thus change their futures?

"This isn't about wanting female brains in the maths and sciences," Brizendine said. "It's about needing them. One of the big issues about globalization is we need every piece of brain power to contribute to the intellectual output of this country."

The differences of the male and female brains are what they are: biological facts devoid of social or political judgment. But what we do about those differences is completely about social and political judgment. We can ignore the research and cling to our ideology that gender equality means gender sameness. Or we can use the information to bring us closer to real equality, the kind that doesn't mistake difference for inferiority, and one that values all those striving toward the mountain top, no matter their route or the speed by which they travel.
 
Damn..Max you're posts are too long, makes me not want to read them. but yes it is true we are smarter than woman. we just choose to be stupid and then lose that extra brain power when we hit eachother on the head with huge dictionaries (Go Bio Dome). Naturally we would rather hang with other guys and that means not using you're brain that much but as someone said (forgot) women are muuuuch better at multi tasking (even though I played my gameboy and playstation at the same time once using my feet) which works along with the whole left side right side brain thing since it's like multi tasking to use both. It always kinda leads to your attention span since men find it harder to pay attention to school as children, we find ways to entertain ourselves and forgot about the other thing. women however..they can pay attention to 6 people talking at once and still respond to every question they we're saying.. at least all of this is IMO
 
Jebus said:
Oh c'mon, like that site has any credibility whatsoever...
I'm amused that you took me seriously there. Ehehe.

Max: could you post sources with your articles from now on? That'd make assessing their value a lot easier.

Although it is a nice article, there are some problems with it.
Most importantly, if by their teens language and science skills pick up in respectively boys and girls, then why do the girls consistently score worse on maths and boys consistently score worse on language problems in their mid teens here?
I think that there's a lot bigger problem too: one of territoriality, it's not just about boys and girls believing they're poor in some thigns, it's about the society developing the idea that boys and girls are good and bad at different things. This would reinforce an idea that if you belong top a certain gender, doing a certain thing isn't what you're supposed to be doing.
 
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