Minigames that actually don't suck

[RPGenius]

You know, I'm a fan of wrestling games. I don't however wish that Fallout had some kind of grappling system. I've somehow managed to work out that it makes sense for each genre to have it's own features. Traditional RPGs on a computer platform need to feel like they're still based off PnP.

Err...
A bad example, a lot of PnP RPGs has rules for grappling.

I should have been more clear. I'm aware of rules for grappling in RPGs. What I was saying is that I don't want a grappling engine, where button presses allow me to for example powerbomb someone. Somehow, that just doesn't fit Fallout. Sorry for the unclarity.

 

[xdarkyrex]

So? Daggerfall doesn't have anything to do with Fallout, other than the fact that Bethesda created it. It is First Person Perspective, and set in the elder scrolls universe.

Exactly. It's in the first-person view. Meaning that *first-person perrspective had been used in RPGs before Fallout was made*. Completely invalidating your 'yeah but now it's all better and fpp can be done!!' argument.

i cant claim to know what he implied, but i think most peoples arguments, however poorly worded, are something more along the lines of "2d graphics have come to a peak of potential and 3d is still expanding".

i mean honestly,daggerfall WAS 3d... but rather lame compared to the modern 3d fpp potential.

when fallout came out, fpp may have already been around, but it sucked

 

[Sander]

i cant claim to know what he implied, but i think most peoples arguments, however poorly worded, are something more along the lines of "2d graphics have come to a peak of potential and 3d is still expanding".

i mean honestly,daggerfall WAS 3d... but rather lame compared to the modern 3d fpp potential.

when fallout came out, fpp may have already been around, but it sucked

Quake and Half-Life prove you wrong.

 

[Morbus]

And Morbus, I apologize for getting off topic. I did read your post and agree with you for the most part.

Ok, no prob.

One of the things I really liked about Oblivion was that a lot of the actions your character performed required more than just clicking on a button and letting a dice roll decide it's susuccess High stats increased the chances for susuccessut weren't the sole deciding factor. It made me feel like I really was my character when I had to physically use a lockpick to move the tumblers in a lock. That was genius.

Ehm... So ingenious that I didn't need the lockpick skill at all, I could beat any lock at any skill level...

If they are smart about the way minigames are presented it could add a new dimension to Fallout 3 will really make you feel like you are a Vault Dweller.

Ehm... That's not the objective. Fallout is not about you feeling you are your character, feeling like YOU are there. It's about feeling that YOUR CHARACTER is there, and the world reacting accordingly. That's fallout.

And in closing, I know I will be bashed for saying this, but I think that this community should give the game a chance BEFORE they say it sucks. Once it is released, if it sucks by all means post your opinion as often as you can, Bethesda will deserve criticism if they produce a crap title. But they just might make a game that surpasses the originals. We won't know until fall 2008.

Your logic is flawed. Everybody is giving the game a chance, otherwise they wouldn't bother. I'm not giving it a chance anymore, and I don't bother anymore either. But that's just me. The guys complaining about the game? Well, *those* are certainly giving it a chance.

:EDIT:
Not that bethesda understands that, oc... They're too stupid for anything at all.

 

[Sorrow]

The guys complaining about the game? Well, *those* are certainly giving it a chance.

I don't. I'm mocking FINO3, because apparently we don't have anything else Fallout to debate about lately.
Though I admit that it's becoming a mind numbingly boring lately - nothing new - the same promotion material rewritten as a preview again and again.

 

[xdarkyrex]

Quake and Half-Life prove you wrong.

Speaking of, i need to re-install half life.
Best fps ever.



umm, although what I meant was that the graphical limitations were different. 2D games back then had a sort of finesse that couldnt be even closely recreated by 3d graphics.
these days, we have very highly detailed 3D.
3D of old was very limited in polygons and textures and lighting effects. some games pulled off a great atmosphere with their limitations, but even then fallout was prettier looking to me. the detail of games like baldurs gate and fallout and planescape torment surpassed the look of games like half life to mem which if you sat and stared at a scene, it looked very.... blocky and fake. Only just recently has 3d started to look better than 2d (in my opinion). But I know I'm not the only one with that opinion...

 

[Sorrow]

Only just recently has 3d started to look better than 2d (in my opinion). But I know I'm not the only one with that opinion...

I think that it has more to do with people not caring to use the full potential of 2d than with 3d games really looking better.

 

[Vault 69er]

i cant claim to know what he implied, but i think most peoples arguments, however poorly worded, are something more along the lines of "2d graphics have come to a peak of potential and 3d is still expanding".

Aside from the facts already addressed, and that isometric does not = 2D..
Are you seriously saying that Fallout represents the peak of 2D graphics?? Sprites and background art have evolved just as 3D models and engines have. Better animated, more detailed, more fluidly animated.
A Fallout game made today with sprites would look as different from Fallout 1 as Half-Life 2 does to Half-Life 1.

 

[xdarkyrex]

Aside from the facts already addressed, and that isometric does not = 2D..
Are you seriously saying that Fallout represents the peak of 2D graphics?? Sprites and background art have evolved just as 3D models and engines have. Better animated, more detailed, more fluidly animated.
A Fallout game made today with sprites would look as different from Fallout 1 as Half-Life 2 does to Half-Life 1.

nah, thats not what I meant by it

I was just saying that the difference in cost-effective graphics between now and then has shifted dramatically in favor of 3d graphics. 2d graphics tend to require more meticulous work, where-as most 3d is built on models that handle graphics in a more seamless and dynamic way.

The means of achieving that same seamlessness in 2 dimensions without spending a lot of otherwise unnecessary meticulous work isn't something I've ever heard of. I suppose you could use 3d graphics or models to generate the 2d graphics? even then It'd require a massive amount of sprites from varying angles. I would just rather that they keep focusing on refining polygon counts to smooth out 3d til it eventually gets more detailed than the eye can see. That way we can almost achieve the same degree of detail that we currently have with 2d, with the ease of work created by 3d.

to be honest, its almost hard to compare the two technologies, as they rely on such different methods. but currently 3d seems to be moving forward and progressing much faster than 2d capabilities.
and infact, if you think that 2d can make the same leap of detail on a mid-low budget that we have between half life 1 and 2, I would love to see it. It'd be news to me though.

 

[Sorrow]

Simply, the developers are pushing graphics that require less work on them than those that have greater aesthetic/artistic value.

I still prefer the Fallout wreckages to the trailer bus.

 

[xdarkyrex]

i just hope that 3d will catch up to the detail 2d can have.

lol, 3d that can simulate 2d really well, i cant wait.

 

[Morbus]

i just hope that 3d will catch up to the detail 2d can have.

lol, 3d that can simulate 2d really well, i cant wait.

Who cares about graphical detail when you can't point at anything and see the description?!

 

[Sorrow]

I agree. Descriptions added a lot of charm to Fallout. I missed them when playing Baldur's Gate, Arcanum, etc.

 

[xdarkyrex]

Who cares about graphical detail when you can't point at anything and see the description?!

Quoted for emphasis

 

[Dougly]

I agree. Descriptions added a lot of charm to Fallout.

They also worked well with SPECIAL, in that a character with better abilities - more intelligence, or more perception - might get a different message when he looks at something.

Think of a character with high perception, for example, noticing that an NPC "looks down." And, think about how being able to "notice" that might open up a quest that would otherwise be unavailable.

That worked really well for Fallout. It helped to reinforce the whole "role playing" element, where your ability to progress was based on your characters skills, and not your own. I fear much of that will be missing in F3.