More evidence of America's Fundamentalist-Military Pact?

welsh

welsh

Junkmaster
Yes, remember those days when the first amendment was about the seperation of church and state?

Those days are rapidly coming to an end as the Christian right grabs hold of the next generation of America's elites. Could we expect to see more of this in other Military Academies.

Hey- there are no athiests in foxholes!

Apparently not in academies either!

Onward Christian soldiers marching off to War! There is a Holyland (rich in oil) yet to be conquered against the infidels and God has given our side the Technological edge.

Or as Field Marshal Model once said on the closing days of the Second World War, "Sometimes I wonder if God really is on our side."

Air Force Academy Chief Admits School Bias
By Robert Weller
The Associated Press

Friday 03 June 2005

The superintendent of the Air Force Academy acknowledged to leaders of a national Jewish group Friday that religious intolerance permeates the military school.

"As a commander, I know I have problems in my cadet wing," Lt. Gen. John Rosa said at a meeting of the Anti-Defamation League's executive committee. "I have issues in my staff, and I have issues in my faculty - and that's my whole organization."

He said he admonished the academy's No. 2 commander, Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida, a born-again Christian, for sending an e-mail promoting National Prayer Day.

"We sat down and said, `This is not right,' and he acknowledged that," Rosa said, adding there had been other incidents that crossed the line. "Perception is reality. We don't have respect."

The academy has been under investigation because of complaints that evangelical Christians have harassed cadets who do not share their faith. Some cadets have complained of anti-Semitic slurs, and one of the top chaplains at the school claims she was fired because she criticized what she saw as proselytizing at the academy.

Academy leaders deny the claim, saying Capt. MeLinda Morton was simply reassigned to Japan. The Defense Department's inspector general is investigating.

Rosa said he has spoken with academy critics and agrees with many of their complaints. He said he didn't learn of a Yale University memo issued last year on religious intolerance at the school near Colorado Springs until much later.

Rosa said the problem is "something that keeps me awake at night."

"If everything goes well, it's probably going to take six years to fix it," he added.

Mikey Weinstein, an academy graduate who has become a leading critic, said Rosa's acknowledgment "is too little and too late."

"We need new leadership at the Air Force Academy," said Weinstein, who has sent two sons to the academy.

Abe Foxman, the ADL's national director, said he was convinced the general wants to do the right thing.

"We walked away with the feeling that the man is committed to solving the problem. The question is whether the system will let him," Foxman said after meeting with Rosa for 90 minutes earlier Friday.
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Yes, remember those days when the first amendment was about the seperation of church and state?
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Buahahahahahaha. You're funny Welsh. It was never about seperation of church and state. It was about disestablishmentarianism. Jefferson, the White House's only Secular Humanist, was the one who perverted the constitution into something like that.
 
Wow John, you have made some stupid comments before but this revisionism of the seperation of church and state is a new one.

First Amendment speaks to both free exercise (as in the right of people to practice what they want) and the establishment clause (in that the state will not force down a particular faith down one's throat).
 
Yes. Exactly. Disestablishmentarianism. Not a Secular State. That's Jefferson's doing, a 'wall between church and state'. Find that in the constitution.
 
Regardless of Jefferson's intentions, I'm glad the church and the state are, in fact, separate. A woman in Italy got arrested for authoring a book which offended the Catholic faith, and that's not something I want to see here.
 
John Uskglass said:
Yes. Exactly. Disestablishmentarianism. Not a Secular State. That's Jefferson's doing, a 'wall between church and state'. Find that in the constitution.
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Not sure how that becomes Jefferson's doing. That the government should make no law regarding religion is still disestablishmentarianism. It is the phrase itself "Seperation of church and State" that people get confused.
 
Not sure how that becomes Jefferson's doing. That the government should make no law regarding religion is still disestablishmentarianism. It is the phrase itself "Seperation of church and State" that people get confused.
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True, a Secular State considers itself disestablishmentarian, but disestablishmentarianism does not mean that one cannot have a nativity scene on a tiny part of government property, or any of that other ACLU tripe.
 
John Uskglass said:
Yes, remember those days when the first amendment was about the seperation of church and state?
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Buahahahahahaha. You're funny Welsh. It was never about seperation of church and state. It was about disestablishmentarianism. Jefferson, the White House's only Secular Humanist, was the one who perverted the constitution into something like that.
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You do realize of course that the a good deal of the majority of the Founding Fathers were deists, not "Christians". Seperation of church and state is equally important to a deist as to a secular humanist.
 
You do realize of course that the a good deal of the majority of the Founding Fathers were deists, not "Christians". Seperation of church and state is equally important to a deist as to a secular humanist.
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A large amount of them where, not a majority. Deists where never anything more then a minority of a minority. And unlike Secular Humanists, seperation of Church and state is not a vendetta or a commandment. See: mentions of God in the Decleration of Independance.
 
Dude.....seriously....

The Constitution does NOT equal the Declaration of Independence! The Constitution came about much later!

The Declaration is a document justifying the right of the colonists to rebel against the British Crown. Of course it makes no mention of church and state, as it is basically a war manifesto! It appeals to God as a justification and as an invokation for victory. It is not of the Constitution, nor does it provide anything precisely 'concrete' in determining a functional form of government.


Just...please....stop whoring out our national history. Please.
 
Of course it's not law, but it was written by the founding fathers and it mentions God. I was merley pointing out that they where not as extreme as Secular Humanists in this regard.
 
Anyone else got the feeling that CCR's post have increased in blatant stupidity these last days?
 
Indeed. CCR- don't forget that the Constitution was a negotiated document among rational men trying to bring 13 independent states together under a constitution in ways never done before.

Don't you think the whole seperation of church and state might have been a compromise so that you wouldn't have clashes between different versions of "church" that might undermine "the state?"
 
Indeed. CCR- don't forget that the Constitution was a negotiated document among rational men trying to bring 13 independent states together under a constitution in ways never done before.
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Yes. Yes it was. And this is quite the non-sequitor.

Don't you think the whole seperation of church and state might have been a compromise so that you wouldn't have clashes between different versions of "church" that might undermine "the state?"
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This compromise allowed for State's Rites. It had nothing to do with Disestablishmentarianism, a Secular State or Seperation of Church and State. To quote Wikipedia
The First Amendment to the US Constitution explicitly bans the federal government from setting up a state church. Until the mid-19th century this amendment was understood as allowing for state governments to create established churches and a number of states did so.
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You might kind of be missing the point, John, and the debate seems to be spiraling down into a semantics discussion. I couldn't give a shit less about the seperation of church and state being in the constitution. You might be right that welsh's initial statement about the constitution was wrong, but I don't care as I find the seperation of church and state a healthy tradition or trend, wichever one applies.

You'd be wasting your time more aptly if you were to try to argue in favour of a Church State outside of constitutional semantics
 
As an American, I'd just like to say that I've read 1984. and because of it I'm beginning to get a little terrified of what the Administration thinks is a good idea.

Department of Homeland Security? I thought we had something for that already, called the Department of Defense?

<sigh>
 
John Uskglass said:
Church State? What do you mean Kharn?
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A state in which religion is not clearly seperated from politics would be labeled church state in my book, just like the US is a corporate state. If it allows for or encourages political mechanisms to make non-democratic institution influence democratic institutions is a corporate or church or whatever state, your lobbies are a good example of that.

If you're arguing against a secular state, what exactly are you arguing for?

On that note; welsh, I also don't really get what you're arguing here. Your article seems to be mostly about Jews being picked on in the army, not about a huge religifying move inside the army. And the movement seems to be from the bottom-up, not brought on from above
 
Lazarus Plus said:
As an American, I'd just like to say that I've read 1984. and because of it I'm beginning to get a little terrified of what the Administration thinks is a good idea.

Department of Homeland Security? I thought we had something for that already, called the Department of Defense?

<sigh>
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1984! 1984!

THE FUTURE IS HAPPENING OH MY GOD!
 
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