Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Well, your opinion on the first person perspective is more of a personal preference. So its kinda hard for me to argue against that.
Morrowind evaluation thread
- Thread starter Macaco
- Start date
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Well, your opinion on the first person perspective is more of a personal preference. So its kinda hard for me to argue against that.
Damn man. I really love you Saint. If you ever want someone killed, I'm your man.
There's a reason I prefer you to Rosh (and I love Rosh too). You both speak your mind without reservation which you have to respect, and I respect a great deal. But Rosh more often comes off just as disenfranchised and agitated, which helps to hide his knowledge and experience with the gaming industry. You just come off as knowledgable.
It's good that people like you analyze what you liked and disliked about Morrowind. Without saying anything about Fallout or it's connection to the Elder Scrolls series, without saying "this and this was better" (you said it once, but justified it immediatly and didn't sound at all petty or whiny), you just talk about the game. Which really makes some people look stupid, claiming that Fallout fans only whine about Morrowind with guns, when some of us enjoyed the game.
My thoughts (branching off of yours, of course
):
Agreed. It's cool to have some time to move between the towns, and maybe level, run into the occaisional side quest or mine... but it gets reallly, really fucking tedius very fast. And if you're muling, forget it. If you have to go from town to town several times, or if you forget an objective on one of the less-narated quests, making the same trip more then twice is just a gigantic waste of time and really disconnects you from any sort of pacing.
I've never played Prelude, so I'll skip that comparison. In any case, one of the bright sides of Morrowind was the skill based levelling. I loved to just whip ass with my axe and become more and more skilled with it. It allowed you to make any weapon work... which wouldn't work with Fallout and it's weapon classes, I don't think, but that is another debate for another day... but as big of a boon it was, it was also a hinderance. I got to a point where I was getting sniped off from lord knows where, taking arrow after arrow, most of them cursed or demon arrows that gave me the rectal burning and involuntary electrolitic twitching, and I'm sitting there with an axe in one hand covering my nuts with the other. But neglecting the skill of Archery ensured me that I could hit absolutely shiat all. Reverse that, when you're cornered by three or four guys, you don't want some damn bow, you want an ax, or maybe a minigun. In any case, it was annoying because the game forced you to balance out and not explaining how the system works led me to take melee weapons and never gain a level in it, ever. Oh sure, if I knew how the system worked, I could have just iced harmless civies with a useless little knife or whatnot. But it wasn't clear what the hell I was doing. The arbitrary attribute gain was very confusing and annoying and didn't help at all.
It was good, but with lots of flaws. Realistic sure. Except for the non-sensical attribute increases.
Ex-fu-acting-kly. If you wanted to sap the enjoyment from a player anymore, all you'd have to do is make sure that with heavier armor you moved slo... wait. It was completely inconsequental, after clearing out some big dweemer ruin, to run into cliff racer, rat, crab, crab-infested ox, one eyed bizzare pile of flesh... all useless creatures that like to sneak up behind and or above you, causing you to spin around wildly looking for the damn thing, around and around faster then a heroine addict following a CD reflection on the cieling, it's unrealistic, it's annoying, and to say it becomes monotonous when you're walking across mountains is like saying Cher puts out too many records. It's the understatement of the damned millenium.
The jobs were another saving grace in Morrowind but again fell short of being great, or even very good, and had to settle for okay. The "find this place, I can't tell you where it is... uh... it's west... if you hit the ocean you went too far" kinda quests, or "track down Bob, Bob is bad... we don't know where he is, exactly... but he's somewhere *shifty glare*..." kinda quests just STALLED THE FUCKING GAME DEAD. The fighters guild quests were basically all I did... the main storyline seemed kinda boring, besides, being an assassin was at time dope. It paid well and was easy work. And then Bob was spotted. Grrr I hate that motherfucker, he popped up like six times and I could NEVER find his ass. It made the game dumb, wandering the wastes for this guy who may or may not exist, checking leads with the retarded diahrea that passes for diolague. That's part of the reason I quit.
In the end, I found it to be a fairly substandard game. Innovative in parts but missing the mark on a great many things. Everyone wore the same armor and looked the same with a minor deviation in the helmet, the world was kinda blah, the story never caught me at all, and my general disdain for the roleplaying game eventually just led me to get bored with Morrowind. I'm trying to track down a copy, maybe buy an expansion or whatnot because I've heard they improved diolague and NPC interaction which lacked desperatly, and to play around with the worldcrafter, just to fiddle. I doubt it will catch my interest again, because in the end I think it was dissapointing.
There's a reason I prefer you to Rosh (and I love Rosh too). You both speak your mind without reservation which you have to respect, and I respect a great deal. But Rosh more often comes off just as disenfranchised and agitated, which helps to hide his knowledge and experience with the gaming industry. You just come off as knowledgable.
It's good that people like you analyze what you liked and disliked about Morrowind. Without saying anything about Fallout or it's connection to the Elder Scrolls series, without saying "this and this was better" (you said it once, but justified it immediatly and didn't sound at all petty or whiny), you just talk about the game. Which really makes some people look stupid, claiming that Fallout fans only whine about Morrowind with guns, when some of us enjoyed the game.
My thoughts (branching off of yours, of course
):Saint_Proverbius said:
Agreed. It's cool to have some time to move between the towns, and maybe level, run into the occaisional side quest or mine... but it gets reallly, really fucking tedius very fast. And if you're muling, forget it. If you have to go from town to town several times, or if you forget an objective on one of the less-narated quests, making the same trip more then twice is just a gigantic waste of time and really disconnects you from any sort of pacing.
I've never played Prelude, so I'll skip that comparison. In any case, one of the bright sides of Morrowind was the skill based levelling. I loved to just whip ass with my axe and become more and more skilled with it. It allowed you to make any weapon work... which wouldn't work with Fallout and it's weapon classes, I don't think, but that is another debate for another day... but as big of a boon it was, it was also a hinderance. I got to a point where I was getting sniped off from lord knows where, taking arrow after arrow, most of them cursed or demon arrows that gave me the rectal burning and involuntary electrolitic twitching, and I'm sitting there with an axe in one hand covering my nuts with the other. But neglecting the skill of Archery ensured me that I could hit absolutely shiat all. Reverse that, when you're cornered by three or four guys, you don't want some damn bow, you want an ax, or maybe a minigun. In any case, it was annoying because the game forced you to balance out and not explaining how the system works led me to take melee weapons and never gain a level in it, ever. Oh sure, if I knew how the system worked, I could have just iced harmless civies with a useless little knife or whatnot. But it wasn't clear what the hell I was doing. The arbitrary attribute gain was very confusing and annoying and didn't help at all.
It was good, but with lots of flaws. Realistic sure. Except for the non-sensical attribute increases.
Ex-fu-acting-kly. If you wanted to sap the enjoyment from a player anymore, all you'd have to do is make sure that with heavier armor you moved slo... wait. It was completely inconsequental, after clearing out some big dweemer ruin, to run into cliff racer, rat, crab, crab-infested ox, one eyed bizzare pile of flesh... all useless creatures that like to sneak up behind and or above you, causing you to spin around wildly looking for the damn thing, around and around faster then a heroine addict following a CD reflection on the cieling, it's unrealistic, it's annoying, and to say it becomes monotonous when you're walking across mountains is like saying Cher puts out too many records. It's the understatement of the damned millenium.
The jobs were another saving grace in Morrowind but again fell short of being great, or even very good, and had to settle for okay. The "find this place, I can't tell you where it is... uh... it's west... if you hit the ocean you went too far" kinda quests, or "track down Bob, Bob is bad... we don't know where he is, exactly... but he's somewhere *shifty glare*..." kinda quests just STALLED THE FUCKING GAME DEAD. The fighters guild quests were basically all I did... the main storyline seemed kinda boring, besides, being an assassin was at time dope. It paid well and was easy work. And then Bob was spotted. Grrr I hate that motherfucker, he popped up like six times and I could NEVER find his ass. It made the game dumb, wandering the wastes for this guy who may or may not exist, checking leads with the retarded diahrea that passes for diolague. That's part of the reason I quit.
In the end, I found it to be a fairly substandard game. Innovative in parts but missing the mark on a great many things. Everyone wore the same armor and looked the same with a minor deviation in the helmet, the world was kinda blah, the story never caught me at all, and my general disdain for the roleplaying game eventually just led me to get bored with Morrowind. I'm trying to track down a copy, maybe buy an expansion or whatnot because I've heard they improved diolague and NPC interaction which lacked desperatly, and to play around with the worldcrafter, just to fiddle. I doubt it will catch my interest again, because in the end I think it was dissapointing.
Speaking of huge... I bought both expansions, and never really have gotten to dabble in the new locations, such as solthsheim and the tribunal city, because i've been occupied by the mainland!
i've heard faint rumours and seem some screenshots of the game in prerelease stages, and it seemed like there were some things in the game they took out because of tech restraints. like a more dynamic npc schedule, sort of like gothic 2, where the npcs walk around doing different chores during different times of the day. in gothic 2, this really gave me a sense that the world was more open and dynamic/alive. this also opened up different ways to do a mission. as a thief, for example, i'd have to wait till night until everyone was sleeping to sneak into their homes and take their precious silveware! yet the irony- the dialogue in gothic 2 wasn't all that complex either! i felt gothic 2 was a better, albeit shorter game, than morrowind, mainly because it was much more immerse in regards to the story, voice acted characters, and no superfelous trimming. i've heard people gripe about all the lore in morrowind being too much- there are like hundreds of books you're supposed to read to feel immersed in the game. after reading a heap of those little in game books about imperial vs tribal vs ashlander religion, i just didn't care anymore, because it didn't make me feel anymore immeresed/motivated in the game at all. i didn't know what to think of as important or unimportant. as opposed to this, i think one of the memorable experiences is just standing in korinis harbor city in gothic 2 and listening to that priest what's his name embellish and tell the stories/myths of the gods.
ah, and the guild system in gothic 2 was a gem as well. sure, there were only 3 different guilds you could choose- mercenary, soldier, or priest, but you got a different game experience each time! unlike in morrowind where each guild really just serves as some more exp. opportunities, and i could join all of them in one big batch. later in the game you could join only one house, such as redoran, hlalu, etc. this would give you a different set of quests depending on which house you chose. but by that time in the game, i'm pretty much desensatized from all the pointless quests, and the house quests no longer feel any more significant than an ordinary quest.
i've heard faint rumours and seem some screenshots of the game in prerelease stages, and it seemed like there were some things in the game they took out because of tech restraints. like a more dynamic npc schedule, sort of like gothic 2, where the npcs walk around doing different chores during different times of the day. in gothic 2, this really gave me a sense that the world was more open and dynamic/alive. this also opened up different ways to do a mission. as a thief, for example, i'd have to wait till night until everyone was sleeping to sneak into their homes and take their precious silveware! yet the irony- the dialogue in gothic 2 wasn't all that complex either! i felt gothic 2 was a better, albeit shorter game, than morrowind, mainly because it was much more immerse in regards to the story, voice acted characters, and no superfelous trimming. i've heard people gripe about all the lore in morrowind being too much- there are like hundreds of books you're supposed to read to feel immersed in the game. after reading a heap of those little in game books about imperial vs tribal vs ashlander religion, i just didn't care anymore, because it didn't make me feel anymore immeresed/motivated in the game at all. i didn't know what to think of as important or unimportant. as opposed to this, i think one of the memorable experiences is just standing in korinis harbor city in gothic 2 and listening to that priest what's his name embellish and tell the stories/myths of the gods.
ah, and the guild system in gothic 2 was a gem as well. sure, there were only 3 different guilds you could choose- mercenary, soldier, or priest, but you got a different game experience each time! unlike in morrowind where each guild really just serves as some more exp. opportunities, and i could join all of them in one big batch. later in the game you could join only one house, such as redoran, hlalu, etc. this would give you a different set of quests depending on which house you chose. but by that time in the game, i'm pretty much desensatized from all the pointless quests, and the house quests no longer feel any more significant than an ordinary quest.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
When I got bored doing generic Guild and NPC quests I picked up on the main story. It was surprisingly engaging, and the dungeons dedicated to the main plot were increadible. It was weird being familiar with the repetitive cave architecture and then stepping into this dark, gloomy, stalactite-riddled cavern.
Another interesting thing, there are some temples on the island where if you talk to certain statues of the Daedra they'll give you quests. The items they rewarded you with were pretty badass.
Another interesting thing, there are some temples on the island where if you talk to certain statues of the Daedra they'll give you quests. The items they rewarded you with were pretty badass.
Nyarlathotep
First time out of the vault
*Looks at the thousand 'House in Balmora'-mods*
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
Re: I liked morrowind.
Actually, i have played all of Morrowind. Its the out-of-the-box version, and the patches. Mods aren't official work and aren't representative of Bethesda's work.
Anhaedra said:
Actually, i have played all of Morrowind. Its the out-of-the-box version, and the patches. Mods aren't official work and aren't representative of Bethesda's work.
PsychoSniper
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
If you havent playd a game til youve played the mods, then the game is a waste.
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
Montez said:
I wouldn't mind that Fallout 3 shipped with an editor... but i wouldn't want the editor to be the focus of the game. You'll notice how two of the most best-selling CRPGs of late, NWN and Morrowind, have took a great amount of time polishing the editors. Some would say the editors are more polished than the game itself. Sure, editors can allow a fanbase to increase the lifetime of the engine, but what happens to the game itself?
I don't want Fallout 3 to be another Neverwinter Nights. I don't want Fallout 3 to be a vacant game with some tools tacked on, and to use the tagline "If you don't like it, change it".
jaberwocki
First time out of the vault
you know the dev team did't do its job when mods come out with better looking portraits and items which used less pixels(like the pretty face project).
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
Saint_Proverbius said:
Eh, i would have preffered a higher quality world than such a large one. As another guy has put, it's hard to even explore the whole damned thing. I'd rather have a smaller world that has more specialized towns with unique personalities and intriguing ties. The world just seemed so bland and I was often overwhelmed by the huge number of different groups of factions... which will be continued later.
I liked Wizardry's system a bit too. It combined leveling by use with upping skills of your choice at level up. It still needed work like all systems but I definitely liked it more than morrowinds. The problem I had with morrowind is I would gain almost all my points one round from just fighting with an axe or using spells. Then I would only gain points in one stat and be stuck with weak abilities :-\.
aye I didn't like the councils. First it annoyed me when you could join all three of the class guilds (Fighter, thief, mage). It really makes your character to strong and too much of a jack of all trades.
I agree with the mentioned earlier quest board where you can do any mission of your choice.
I HATED the houses. I joined the first house i found only to find out I can't leave it and join another or something like that.
Well - for me a good editor is a must. Some of you are not quite right stating that quality of mods doesn't tell anything about the quality of Bethesda work. There are about 3000 morrowind mods, and I have installed about 300 of them (!), from new landmasses to beautifiers, character schedules, faction tune-ups, faction quests and so on. Bascialy - everything the players didn't like was fixed. Everything that Bethesda's screenplay writers coldn't imagine was imagined and coded by community. It was possible ONLY thanks to well thought-out editor and scripting language. Morrowind is a complete world - so huge that if you install it, you won't need to go for "real" vacations anymore. Just start your PC, wear your goggles and just explore the terrain to south west. Or a dungeon (there are 1000 level dungeons!) you missed...
If you like it depends mostly on if you prefer storyline to exploring. Now imagine Bethesda stays faithful to Fallout legacy and creates a great story. Now imagine that 1000s of Fallout fans make 10 000s of mods, wrom which about 10% is top quality... Imagine that you can make a raft and see what happened to Cuba, or even Europe... all is waiting there for modding community...
If you like it depends mostly on if you prefer storyline to exploring. Now imagine Bethesda stays faithful to Fallout legacy and creates a great story. Now imagine that 1000s of Fallout fans make 10 000s of mods, wrom which about 10% is top quality... Imagine that you can make a raft and see what happened to Cuba, or even Europe... all is waiting there for modding community...
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
ssuukk said:
Yes, but the mods aren't being made by them. Sure, they provide the tools, but actually delivering the content isn't what they're doing. Mods aren't representative of their work, although the toolset certainly is.
jaberwocki
First time out of the vault
I thought the tool set came with the engine they bought.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I dunno. It would've taken me a helluva long time to do the Mage Guild quests with an orc fighter. I tried it a bit and didn't really get too far. Then again, if you don't make lockpick at least a secondary skill there's something wrong with you.
Nyarlathotep
First time out of the vault
No.jaberwocki said:
And indeed, an editor is always nice to have, but the main game shouldn't suffer from it. On the other hand, a userfriendly editor should theoretically help content creation quite a bit.