Movement Problems

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god DAMN this game is pretty nifty. Just picked it up a day ago and I love it. I had downloaded and installed the 1.27 patch before actually playing the game(haven't dled/installed 1.25...do i need to?).

Having problems in single player (haven't played a multi game yet) my men have trouble moving. Hopefully someone knows whats wrong and can help. For example, say i have an Action Point pool of 7ap. In one slot i have a shot gun equipped( 4 AP to fire) and brass knuckles is equipped in the second hand slot (3 AP to attack). Now, I click on an area of the map for my man to walk to(in combat) and say it costs 3 AP to move there, thats not a problem, he'll go, leaving 4 APs.

The problem occurs when i want to move my man a number greater than how ever many Action Points my weapon needs. So if the gun requires 4 AP to fire, then i can't seem to move using those last 4 remaining AP. there's ways around this problem like force fire with knuckles which makes him walk toward the enemy but it IS a hassle and quite frustrating. Maybe this isn't a bug or problem and there's a reason for this but no reason i can seem to make out.

If someone has an idea or knows whats wrong please post or E-mail me at Spironik@msu.edu

thanx
 
Just to be on the safe side you may want to DL and install patch 1.25 and then reinstall patch 1.27. It can't hurt.

I assume you are playing TB? Although the game included that option it was not wholly designed for it which could be the problem you are having. CTB takes a little getting used to but I have grown to like it. There are battles that are more interesting to fight with it. But it's entirely up to you.
 
I have to agree with Jimmy. CTB is much better than either the TB or Squad turn based move. Battles are just too slow in either TB or STB. There is something of a sense of realism in either making a plan and then just the havoc of battle take over or being surprised. Playing CTB does mean that some perks have little to no purpose in your game.

I am not sure what the original question is. I can say that I had to reinstall my patch a few times and I did avoid the Fallout Tactics Booster which might have done nasty things to my game.

I am not sure if I am getting what's at issue. Basically if your character has 7 AP you can either move for 7, use the APs to fight (say 4 APs for one gun and 3Aps for another) or some combination of move and shoot. But if you move to far, that's it- your APs are gone. If you use a 3Ap weapon twice (for 6 APs), you may move or end game turn.

There is something to be said for switching between Continuous Turn based and squad/individual turn based early on. When engaging in random encounters (radscorpions or other bugs) you may not have your people in the proper position to engage and might end up shooting up NPCs instead of bugs. Pause doesn't really help much. My advice would be that, when taking on random encounters. First thing, crouch and sneak, then split up your team into fire teams that are spread out a bit. This not only will give you a more secure method of movement (in teams of two or three) but also can reduce the amount of friendly fire you recieve.

Good luck, and if you haven't tried Fallout 1 and 2, you should. A different and totally cool pair of games (only $10 at your local Walmart!)
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-02 AT 07:54PM (GMT)[p]> I have to agree with
>Jimmy. CTB is much better
>than either the TB or
>Squad turn based move.

I beg to differ. At least for me, the CTB mode is nearly unplayable. Allow me to explain: I'm a very slow mouse clicker. Even in the TB mode, the turns don't start until the first shot is fired (unlike the other Fallout game, where the turns start when the enemy spots you). So that when the enemies already run toward me, I don't have time to react until they're on top of me. The end result: I almost always get attacked first, unless I turn on the sentry mode. But one doesn't always want to do that, depending on the situation.

The CTB mode would have been playable if only the game had a better pause functionality. Say, a la Baldur's Gate, where one can pause, and while the game is paused, assign orders to each of your characters, then unpause, execute, pause again, assign new orders, etc. In Fallout Tactics, one cannot do anything while the game is paused, save go potty. :(

Leo
 
Dear Leo-

I agree with some of your thoughts on this. The clicking on Fallout BOS is tricky and definitely slow. I like the fact that combat begins when the firing starts and I agree that TB mode does allow you to assign orders, etc. I am also not pleased with the pause, which would have helped if you wanted to change orders in mid battle. What irks me in CTB is that it is difficult to orchestrate complex orders among your squad. Often you move one or two characters at a time.

TB or CTB are really like two different games. When travelling in the wasteland I stick to TB mode especially when dealing with deathclaws. In CTB you often fire too late or too soon (causing friendly damage). In TB you can take the time, plot the game, plan carefully, move, pause, move which is useful when dealing with bad guys who rush. In a recent battle my group was confronted with a mix giant rats, beast masters and deathclaws. The giant rats didn't last long, but long enough for me to pick off some of the beast masters and wound the deathclaws. Then they rushed me. Brian got surrounded and was about to get creamed either by deathclaws or friendly fire. However, in TB, he hosed down one enemy with the AK, Mandy sniped away the target's last hitpoints which allowed Brian to get out of the way so the rest of the squad could kill the rest of the deathclaws. IN CTB, Brian would be toast, but I don't want to lose squadies in random encounters. In this way, the "more like chess" TB style works.

But that's not what should have happened and in a sense takes away the spirit of the game, which mimics squad based combat. If your guys get cut off, you have to take the risk that he will get wasted. You send in your recon, and hope he or she doesn't stumble into an ambush, you plan your hits by sneaking up but how close is too close? You make your plans and hope that things don't get all screwed up, but they often do. Maybe you hit save a lot. You get surprised, bad plans lead to awful consequences. But that's crisis. Your characters should not be able to switch in mid move between a 4 ap move burst weapon and a 3 ap pistol, because if this was real she wouldn't get the chance. If I botch, and Brian gets cut off and torn up by deathclaws, well, next time be more careful.

I played Macomb and was only able to get Ice through the garage to work her way back from exit point to mine field. That was suspenseful. First time she got hit with a critical that left her blinded, in addition to alone and cut off.

CTB is harder, more tricky but more suspenseful. But if this was "real" than you wouldn't be able to make complex orders because it would be over before you had the chance. But this is about combat, and combat is not chess. That's the risk in CTB and the excitement.

It's not that one is better than the other, merely that it depends on your tastes.

Cheers
 
Welsh,

I perfectly understand what you're saying. You have a point there. But I have always preferred operational level wargames to tactical ones, you know when you're like a general looking at a map, plotting, taking time... I've got BOS because of the RPG element (as part of the Fallout series), rather than for the tactical part.

Leo
 
Dear Leo-

In that sense its a pretty good game. Last game called Soldiers in Arms (I think) by SSI and, in my opinion, Fallout BOS is much better. Overall though, I miss the RPG of Fallout 1 and 2 in BOS. If only they had been able to combine the two here! There are some really great tactical games out there (I still stick with Panzer Generals 1 & 2) but also Age of Kings (Conquerors) kicks ass because it has that Real Time Strategy but also a wonderful Pause that allows you to send orders to your troops and the ability to move large forces around the board is quite impressive.

Have you tried the WW 2 modifications for Fallout BOS? If so, how is it?

Cheers,

welsh
 
No, I didn't try the WW2 mods yet, though I will do so, in due time.

Now, coming back to the issue of whether detailed micromanaging your squad members is realistic, it also occurred to me that leaving them just standing at the same spot and shooting at the likeliest-to-hit enemy happens to be the other side of the medal. I mean, real people would not be so stupid. Assigning them different orders, depending on how the situation is evolving, would reflect their ability to think on their feet. And it's up to the player to decide upon their "degree of cooperation." :)

Leo
 
Dear Leo-

I have to admit being pretty annoyed when one of my characters is crouching around an enemy position and then gets blasted, and instead of returning fire, just keeps going. In that I am tempted to agree.

However, the thing with CTB is that you have to be a fast clicker (which actually fits into being responsive to crisis). In most of the bigger shoot outs, if they go quickly (ideally you have set up a kill zone or a nice ambush) then its all over pretty quick. To me, this is realistic. From what I have read, most fire fights last only a few moments. Your characters would not have much of a chance to move, or would have the chance to think quickly. In these situations the characters would be waiting and probably thinking "Get ready, get ready NOW," Boom! Boom! Boom! it's over, you're quick or you're dead.

On the other side

Ok, so lets say this goes into a prolonged firefight (for example you are fighting a couple guys that are held up in a house". You have are trading fire with bad guys. They may rush you or they may hunker down. YOu have time to run a couple of guys around and flank the position, but of course that might weaken you center. You may be able to creep up to toss a grenade in. But here your guys would have some movement, reflective probably of what their leader would do. True, normal guys would have freedom of movement, but these are also disciplined troops. They will wait till their commander (you) tells them what to do. This is the soldier asking "holy shit sarge, what the f--K am I supposed to do?"

What this does mean tactically, is that your game is different. YOu don't move your guys far away from each other so they move on their own but rather as an organic whole. For example, lets say you get attacked by some rad scorpions. Perhaps your two scouts have run into them. They get off a couple of shots and then you withdraw them (running) to a more favorable spot. You will have to be real quick to prepare a kill zone with the other squadies, but then it is a crisis.

But like we said before, its two different games. One is more a micro management game of chess, where the game allows for more deliberation. CTB is quicker, more dangerous and, because of this, more exciting, but you do lose the deliberation. It really is a toss up. Since this dialogue, I have been experimenting with both. They are both fun, just different.
 
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