"My Case for "Phase Based Combat"

How do you know that the enemy didn't have fast shot, 10ap and bonus ranged attacks also? Which would be 3ap depending on the weapon? :)

They might even have the 2 levels of action boy, or have taken vodoo etc giving them 12 ap.
 
Cause I can see it in the AP counter, the regeneration rate(at the single player game) is so over the top that he uses only the remaining APs(10-1=9) after the first, when he reloads(and thats after the 6 to 12 first shots). I said the animation was the reason for this, because the char does "stupid things", when he shoots he puts the gun to his side and fires, but then he has to pull the gun back to in front of him to start the firing sequence again by putting the gun to his side...(at least whit SMGs)

And you can see something interesting, when you try to use the first aid kit, if the char has 9APs he can heal the everyone much faster than if he has 10APs.(the FA kit takes 10APs to use, this might have something to do whit the delay) And this is out of battle. In TB the turn is invalid and the char does nothing. :(

Or is the problem in my versio, cause I don't know.
 
You can't see the enemies aps, you don't know how buffed they are, they can have the same improvements as you. In CTB they'll make an attack as soon as they have enough action points regenerated, as I said why on earth would you use CFTB?

In TB the turn isn't invalid, they're doing the healing so that by the next turn they'll be done, if the character hasn't got 10aps or hasn't got their full action points remaining when they're finished healing they won't have a full spread of aps.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
TB is the only true Fallout.
Click to expand...

While I agree that CTB is an abomination and should not occur in the upcoming Fallout title, I think this attitude is what is preventing real discourse.

I see a lot of strengths in switching to phase-based combat system. It pleases players who want combat to have action. It prevents the combat from becoming a click fest or otherwise overwhelming players used to turn based. It provides a way to make the combat character who wishes to emphasize stealth over force to be more effective. Most if not all combats would go more quickly and involve less clicking. And finally, it allows for the option of suppressive fire, which would be extremely awkward if not impossible to do in turn based.


I will admit that wasting APs in your turn based system would be similar to wasting your action in a phase based system, but I contend that wasting your action in a phase based system would not happen very often, where as in a turn based system having the target die before a character gets to act could happen often.


I don't see why turn-based combat is any more fitting to the fallout themes than phase-based would be. I mean the only thing I see is that everyone is just used to using it. I will freely admit that a CTB or RT combat destroys fallout as certainly as first person view would destroy fallout combat, but I do not see the underlying discrepancy with phase-based.

Pray tell, what exactly about phase-based combat offends your sensibilities?
 
I already said, TB was part of the whole package along with the viewpoint it really evoked the feeling of a PnP session. The only thing missing was being able to see the dice rolls.

TB is more fitting than phase based because it would be familiar, enough things about the game will probably change that we'll need some familiar features to acclimatize us to the game.

Combat for me is only a small part of Fallout, I don't want a new fancy combat system. I want to know that if I do have to fight with my diplomat that I won't have to learn a whole new system and probably end up reloading umpteen times just to get through a cave full of rats.

While a few new features would be nice like being able to tell Sulik to stop shooting me in the back, essentially there's no reason to really change the current system. It might have it's faults, and what system doesn't but it's stood up to the test of time very well.

Put it this way, would you go to a flight simulator game's forum and say 'loved the game, but all those controls get so confusing, and I really would like to see more of the plane I'm flying. So in the next game would they make the TP external to cockpit view the default, and can they lose most of the dials, after all we only need speed, height and fuel. '?

Because when you suggest such a major change to such a substantial part of the game, you're talking about changing the game into something very different.

I don't really care about fancy combat options such as suppressive fire or wasting aps, if I wanted them I'd play the appropriate type of game, in a role playing game I just want to roleplay, and when I decide to play a combat character I just want to be able to fight without needing to become an expert tactician.
 
And well the suppressive fire is used in TB, every time you have a good burst gun in your hand, if the enemy come too close you just burst him a way. Or would you go enough close to hit whit a hammer to a mutant whit a minigun, while wearing only leather armor, cause I would not, it won't be a pretty sight even in combat armor. :)
 
It would be nice to have a few improvements to the old formula, but nothing drastic. Bethseda should know this as it is the "FORMULA" don't 'FIX' what ain't broke. Games that make lots of money changed only slightly from their predicessors.

Don't drastic changes make market execs nervous? ect...

They already know what the customer likes, why deviate?
 
Ghostwhotalks, the point you're missing and the reason that we are all so adverse to phase combat is that it is "uninterupted" like you said. Does that mean that you give orders, burst into the room and watch you character and teammates attack to your orders and wipe out the room eventually. It sounds like the recipe for some kind of western. I imagine ducking behind bars and upturned tables and then after a while the end, with one side standing.

This isn't fallout combat!

Fallout combat is taking a 223. pistol and putting a shot into the groin of the man about to knife you and then blowing the brains out of the guy with the revolver across the room.

Without personal decisions like deciding just which weapon to use to kill said pigrat or bunch or minigun wielding mutties and then excuteing it in a crafty/fiendish/brutish/godlike or any other playstyle you just don't have the fun of the fallout combat system. For example, my first time in FO1, in the Hub, in the building in Old town where you have to rescue the initiate i (in character) had no idea that the punks in that building would be hostile. Poking around like i did i happened to stumble upon them and they then proceded to try to kill me. I defended my shocked self with a par-tick-you-larr-i-lee nice shotgun and my buddies run to help. Naturally when you have ian as a buddy something is bound to go wrong and he stood outside like a ninny. I won but only just.

When on earth did i even have time to consider an ambush - it may have been stupid on my part, but when you go out with your mates do you say "Hey lads, just incase we're attacked i want you freddy to take the left flank, pete on the right and i'll run off and hide." ?!?

Fallout is an RPG! You roleplay, unless you're some anally obsessed military freak (which is unlikely from a tiny primative village) or just really damn nervous you wouldn't go around with a uber specific plan for you mates to help you out.

I'd much rather wander around on my own with a sawnoff, a 223. pistol and one of those useless but cool lighters and do things MY way. Fuck telling others what to do; as you said - charisma wise they'd probably fuck it up anyway. Teammates are a liability: i loved Dogmeat, but keeping the little tiger from attacking an enemy 4 times bigger with a huge gun was like drawing blood from a stone.

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Changing combat system would piss hardcore Fallout fans about as much as an engine change. Fallout is not a tactical combat game. If you want tactical combat, in a Fallout enviroment, might I suggest Fallout Tactics?
The Party Member combat control box was good, because you had some idea what your allies would do, but nothing was certain. It's a nuclear fuckin' wasteland, nothing being certain is the closet to certain anything gets.
Turn Based worked, because it kept to the Pen&Paper feel, and Fallout was, for alot of people, their first venture into CRPG. It kept to the roots that made RPG's great, simple, not overplanned TB combat, focus on narrative, open-end-ed-ness, and in turn received greatness of it's own.
To move away from those core systems, would be to move away from what made us love Fallout. Another big part of what made it great was the element of suprise. You didn't know you'd be kicked outta the Vault, and, as was earlier stated by Hotel California (Damn good song, by the way), you didn't know the goons were gonna shoot at you.
Planning in TB is harder than PB, but that was what made it so much fun. You could plan combat, but it could easily go wrong, and you'd be in a tight spot.
Overworked combat would also alienate characters who enjoyed talking, sneaking and lying their way through tough situations.
If one area of gameplay was going to receive alot more work than others, making it the subterfuge would be perfect.
 
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