Naval Arms Race in the Making- Asia style

[DarkCorp]

I think Welsh gives China too much credit.

Honestly all this shit is being monitored by the US and the rest of the world. In the end, its all for money/bullshit/ political alliances.

Like Welsh said, someone loses support from someone else and goes to someone else. I mean its a stupid game of politics and scare tactics that our government plays all the time. Like the United States would really want/be cool with China and India having navies that can challenge its own world dominance? Hell, I haven't even mentioned europe or russia yet and how the would feel about either side gaining the upper hand.

Its all bullshit and when it comes down to the nitty gritty shit won't change. China is going to be contained just like any other country who threatens the economic interest of the current top dog.

PS: Although I have a dark conspiracy theory though people won't like it. Both India and China have huge population problems. Accidental nuke anyone?

 

[welsh]

I have my doubts about containment of China. YOu might want to look into China's recent projects in Africa for a comparison.

As for navy power- its not that hard to have a big impressive navy. THere were lots of big impressive navies sailing the world 60 years ago. Toe for toe, they wouldn't stand a chance against a modern navy- but that doesn't mean that its not impressive.

The goal of having an navy is not so much to win control of the sea, but to exert pressure abroad- to project power. The British were able to do that against Argentina in the Falkland Island's War with a fairly small navy- much of it on the brink of being decommissioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Navy

The future plans-

Future fleet

Geographic Boundaries of the First and Second Island Chains.The PLAN's ambitions include operating out to the first and second island chains, as far as the South Pacific near Australia, and spanning to the Aleutian islands, and operations extending to the Straits of Malacca near the Indian Ocean[4]

Modernizing the fleet into a blue water navy will also provide better power projection in not only the region but globally in the 21st century. Chinese naval analysts also feel the need to develop a navy capable of challenging the United States Navy or capable of handling a potential conflict with Taiwan.

The future PLAN fleet will be composed of a balance of assets aimed at maximising the PLAN's fighting effectiveness. On the high end, there would be high technology destroyers equipped with long range air defense missiles (052B/052C, 051C); destroyers armed with sophisticated anti-ship weaponry (Sovremenny class); advanced nuclear powered attack and ballistic missile submarines (Type 093, Type 094); advanced conventional attack submarines (Kilo and Yuan); aircraft carriers and large amphibious warfare vessels capable mobilizing troops at long distances. On the medium and low end, there would be more economical yet multi-role capable frigates and destroyers (upgraded Luda, Luhu, Jiangwei II, Jiangkai); fast littoral missile attack craft (Houjian, Houxin, Houbei); various landing ships and light craft; conventionally powered coastal patrol submarines (Song).

The future fleet will have the obsolete combat ships (based on 1960s designs) phased out in the coming decades as more modern designs enter full production. It may take until 2025 for the bulk of these older ships to be retired. Until then, they will serve principally on the low end, as multi-role patrol/escort platforms. Their use could be further enhanced in the future by being used as fast transports or fire support platforms.

During 2001-2006 there has been a rapid building and acquisition program.[4] There were more than a dozen new classes of ships built in these last five years,[4] totalling some 60 brand new ships (including landing ships and auxiliaries).[4]Simultaneously, dozens of other ships have been either phased out of service or refitted with new equipment.


PLAN's 956-EM modified Sovremenny-class destroyer TaizhouThere has been speculation about the PLAN building or acquiring an aircraft carrier,[5] but the idea appears to have a lower priority than other efforts. Most naval analysts believe that, without significant overall naval modernization, a PLAN aircraft carrier at present would be militarily useless and would take resources away from other parts of the military. This assessment appears to be shared by the Chinese military and political leadership.

Submarines play a huge role in the development of the PLAN's future fleet. This is made evident by the construction of a new type of ballistic missile submarine, the Type 094. This will provide them with a more modern response for the need of a seaborne nuclear deterrent. The new submarine will also be capable of performing conventional strike and other special warfare requirements. The new attack submarine force has shown their potency and will grow more effective as the PLAN acquire new submarines from Russia and/or develop their own.

So far the US hasn't tried to contain China's navy. IN fact, its given ground.

Back in the 1980s, one of the questions was whether the US would stand up to China in the South China Seas- a dangerous region given overlapping territorial claims.

IN the end, the US didn't. The Filipinos and the Vietnamese clashed with China over island's in the SOuth China Sea.

While I doubt the CHinese navy could stand up to the US- that probably won't happen in a conventional way- unless you buy into the ladder of escalation
http://words.grubbykid.com/2006/03/16/on_escalation_herman_kahns_escalation_ladder.html

WHich assumes conflict can be controlled. But if conflict can't- and that's been more the norm than not- then its a rapid escalation and adios muchachos.

But if you were Indonesia, Vietnam, the Philippines, India, Bengladesh, Mozambique, Madagascar... you might take a Chinese fleet on your horizon pretty seriously- especially if there is significant uncertainty if the US "got your back."

 

[gunner of shi]

I do not want to jion in this discussion for wasting time on imagining war on the paper and the screen. It's better to play a US PC game for fan at home.

But to be a man born in China, I want put some right and truth about Chinese, at least, the military, yea~what you care for......

Listen, many men who are not born in China and not took the Chinese culture, always believe Chinese military get a very thick tradition and history glory about sword and horse, wrong, cause these men didn't and never put their real peaceful heart to know deep Chinese culture. Hate and scorn are the block to their eyes even though when you like one nation and try to learn them, you can't fully understand most of their thoughts.

yes~100 years ago, Chinese are like what 'Star' said, before we suffer a lot from 8 countries union forces( we lost a great palace----Yuan Ming), and Japs invasion. At the old glary illusion, would not save us from advanced science attack.
Once, most Chinese did scorn foreign people, this emotion let us only see the so called "weakness points' of foreign, like they have no honor to their parents( but we now understand it is a culture to show equality and respect to young people )
and became ignore anything linked with western world, so we left behine and lost the war.

Now, even a small boy in China know what is the real power to let this nation get stronger---
No metter what the western said, 'bad' or 'good', pick the goods in the bad words, may be there are some honest points to our real weakness, and accapt the good words without overpride. Be our own, do our own, see the foreign bright and glory so we can learn the foreign best, to make a better life.

That the thought of Chinese now, like me, not spying or struggle to discussion, just learn more about fallout game and seek the goods in the 'bad' or 'innocent' words, though sometime I feel anger or funny to the useless...that's the normal feeling from dignity, I still seek goods, so that's why I told you not only say "I hate...fuck the...". The difference between us is 'we try to seek the bests to learn, you try to seek the excuses to ignore’