Need help for new Anti-Virus

[Silencer]

I use AVG, upsides: free and not very resource-consuming. Updates also.

You can have an additional router in spite of what your ISP gave you, methinks. Just plug it in instead of your comp.

 

[Maphusio]

Don't be daft, I didn't say anything about anti-virus software, I was mocking you for using malware as a firewall. Your experience being a failure to get a software firewall to work is not normal. A person who is not apt enough to avoid viruses should likely have a virus/web scanner, software firewall, hardware firewall, and registry firewall, all installed (but be wary of falsely advertised malware and bloatware like the shit you apparently installed onto your rig).

Someone more like myself who is clever enough to know how to remove viruses manually or avoid them in the first place, should only really need at most a software firewall and a registry firewall that are configured properly. I would also potentially get myself a hardware firewall (and configure it to mimic the exact settings of my software firewall and therefor not have any conflicts), but I would never personally bother with virus/web scan stuff because all that can be easily avoided or removed by someone who has a good working knowledge of the internet and their own operating system. The key hallmarks of a good firewall are using a very tiny amount of system resources and having an inclusive port blocking system that doesn't invade your screen but still notifies you. Stuff like Avast and Zone-Alarm and Windows Firewall are BAD software, not good.

Your failures != common failures.
lrn2firewall.

I'm sorry Dark... you clearly do not know what you are talking about. On top of that your statements do not make sense in the English language.

At no point did I ever surmise that I had EVER installed any such software. At no point did I indicate that I magically used "malware" as an anti-viral program... That statement alone boggles my mind... Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that someone use a piece of malicious software to protect their computer? Are you seriously stating that I somehow indicated that?

I work for an Internet Service Provider. We provide the Internet to roughly 20,000 people in the Puget Sound region of Western Washington USA. In the past 4 years that I have worked there I have seen 7 out of 10 computers broken because of the very security software you are so keen on recommending. So my experience is a bit more than my own personal computer experience.

The management at my workplace has grown tired of attempting to fix computers because that type of softwares failure to preform properly. On top of that we can not honestly recommend security software to a customer if that will only result in them calling a week later stating our recommendation broke their computer.

Redundancy is never a good thing when it comes to security software. A hardware firewall such as a NAT firewall is all you need for that type of protection. There is no sense in having, say Norton firewall if you have a NAT firewall. No one can "remove" this "web scanning" software you speak of on your computer if you are behind a NAT firewall! ...What is "web scanning" software?! Again, what you say, does not make sense in the English language.

 

[xdarkyrex]

I consider myself intelligent enough to spot the not so to speak, but I'm not ignorant enough to not have an AV I can trust to back me up, considering the after work activities I engage in could very easily be slipped into the works.

Firewalls, you really only need one, the only, and I mean ONLY reason why you would get a hardware firewall over a software one is because a virus cannot edit the firewall on the hardware because there's no room to place itself on the hardware, plus it's burned into the CMOS of the equipment, whereas a software firewall can be tampered with by a malicious program.

If you're paranoid enough to have 3 firewalls darky, you might as well just deepfreeze your system and be done with it.

I spend time on many very shady sites on regular basis, and rarely get any sort of virus, and when I do, I usually have it cleared out of the registry an msconfig and off of my hard drive within the hour. A firewall can be gotten around in many cases, that is why I have the registry firewall. It also helps me identify what gets put into my registry at any given time since windows is retarded as fuck and does that all without any options for displays or notifications. Registry firewall fixes that. Also, I install mass amounts of iffy software on regular occasion, so knowin my registry and monitoring new entries is huge. Normal firewall is for the obvious. The extra hardware firewall is for when I am running low on resources and am too busy to restart. I shut down the software one and let the hardware firewall be a second line of defense. Not only that, there are exploits for every firewall, having two covers pretty much all your bases. Antivirus for the most part doesn't do anything I can't do myself, and I think that if a person has ample preventive measures and knows how to use a computer at a competent level that anti-virus becomes a little bit redundant. There are obviously tons of people who don't know what a registry is or how to edit it safely, and for those people I strongly suggest using antivirus. But like I said before, for the computer literate, its just a waste of processor cycles.


Oh and Maphusio, I don't know what you do or how you do it, but you clearly suck both at it, and reading. (fyi, web scanning software is stuff that monitors the content of web pages you are downloading for common malware and viruses embedded in flash and scripts and images and such things and blocks it)

 

[Mord_Sith]

C'mon Darky, don't troll Maphusio, there is a difference between IT people in the office and IT people at home, for instance, you need to have software that works for the lowest common denominator, the village idiot so to speak.

Why, because someone's gonna come along and bust something if it's complicated, in the office I'm leery of giving users anything that they could hang their machines with as far as software goes and I act as a conversion box for files that come in that are not in Microsoft Office.

When you're working with the public you have to wear kid gloves when dealing with them, it's no fault of Maphusio's technical aptitude that he has to cater to the village idiots, and if he doesn't trust software firewalls, so what, I don't trust Steam, what difference does it make, it's a piece of software.

As long as he's got one, he's good, and as far as cycles go, once again Darky, you'd save much more by just running Deep Freeze and unfreeze it when you plan to install something.

 

[xdarkyrex]

I am constantly editing and installing shady software from various seedy locations. Deep freeze would just irritate me.

Hardware firewall is to prevent people from getting in from the outside, and the software firewall is mostly to prevent my software from accessing the net without my permission. When I get that handy little notification that some of my software is accessing the net, it raises the needed flags to investigate and fix the issue.

I'm not talking about lowest common denominator stuff, but if Maphusio can;t seperate the needs of competent users which he claims to be, and a bunch of common-folk who don't understand computers at all, he really should rethink his categories.

His logic seems to work like this:
Idiot uses computer, idiot fails, therefore: software is bad. ad infinitum.

That is poor logic to say the least, software for idiots has to be specially designed to cater to their ignorance, while people who know how to use a computer dont need a big shiny gui using monosyllabic words to figure out wtf is going on.

firewalls serve a purpose, mine notifies me of network activity to and from my computer all the time, and I have never had a problem uninstalling any good firewall I've had before.

My suggestion is to stop using crappy software.

 

[Maphusio]

Dear Dark,

Please refrain from implying that I do not know what I am talking about. Please stop trolling and please stop insulting me.

YOU need to be clear, concise and precise when it comes to all things technical if you want to carry a conversation on my level. If you are going to converse with me you had also better brush up on your English as most of what you have said makes no sense what so ever.

My logic is flawed you say? How dare you assume that my experience in the tech industry (as a profession) pales in comparison to your knowledge.

I have tried reasoning with you, I've given you valid responses to your statements yet, I get insulting and defensive responses mingled with broken English.

xdarkyrex]His logic seems to work like this:
Idiot uses computer, idiot fails, therefore: software is bad. ad infinitum.

When did I EVER indicate that customers or others I have dealt with on a technical basis are idiots? How did you EVER arrive at the conclusion that I assume that the lack of intellect by someone using security software somehow equates it being broken?

Have you worked in the computer repair/build/Internet industry? Have you had the experience of seeing computers come in the door broken? Have you had to explain to customers that Norton, McAfee, Trend Micro or what have you broke their computers to the extent that portions of Windows have to be reloaded?

In case you are about to respond completely bypassing reading and comprehending what I've said previously, let me break it down for you...

Security software such as Norton Internet Security or Trend Micro PC-cillin can and most likely will fail at some point after being installed. This software as well as other security suites historically will break after an automatic update. This software will mistakenly block common ports such as port 80, 25 or 110. Those ports responsible for mail and Internet communications.

Often times those finding themselves in the position of having to deal with a broken security program uninstall the software using windows add/remove programs utility... Unfortunately the program is not always uninstalled properly leaving behind services and other portions of the program in tact that continue to block the ports in question. Sometimes the only recourse is to re-install TCP/IP in Windows after removing the security software and all of its remains.

"Computer code is as only as smart as the person that created it."

Hell, don't take my word for it... Try doing a quick google search for firewall issues. And please don't try pawning that off as users that don't understand how their security software works. I know first hand how bad security suites can get.

As stated by others here, security suites are not an essential to your computers life. At my workplace we have no need for security software on individual work terminals... What is the point? We know enough to not open an attachment contained in an e-mail unless we are absolutely sure its clean (usually malicious code does not make it past the Barracuda firewall). We know how to safely navigate the web... It does not take a genius to be safe on the web without security software that may break with or without the end users help. Right now, I am not running any security software on this computer. Windows firewall is off, do your worst.

Remember, someone wishing to gain access to your network needs a motive... Do you have uncanny amounts of money? Secret files that in ones possession would make he or she powerful? Chances are, you are like me and just wish you had those things. So why would someone waist their time to break through a NAT firewall to get to little ol' you? I may be American, but, I'm not that afraid.

[/rant]

Edit: One addendum to my statement above Dark... You personally may use a security firewall for your own purposes. That is fine, there is nothing wrong with that. You believe you have the technical prowess to resolve any potential issues that may arise and thats great!

My initial statement was a valid one. Just because you have a reason to use security software doesn't mean that others will see value in that reason in regards to their own situation. Many assume that security software is a must because the world is out to get them and that is simply not true.

I fear you will not understand me again, and I you... So let us shelve this and stay away from it being an issue between us. No?

Edit again... Why do I always get into arguments with folk about technical related issues here? The last one was with DarkLegacy regarding if Vista had OpenGL or not... Oy

 

[xdarkyrex]

When I said GOOD firewall, I meant a good one, not one of those overly popular pieces of crap.



Good firewalls have a seemingly endless amount of settings to configure, ya know? Including manual multi-level configuration of ALL port blocking. This is actually the biger issue with hardware firewalls, as they tend to be less configurable. Fully automated firewalls = fail. Most of the popular security suites are utter crap, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are the very same people who release the viruses they make you update for. The amount of viruses and other malicious software I have manually removed from mine and other peoples computers numbers in the several dozens, and that is no over exageration.

The issue here is that you and I are talking about completely different software.

The software you are talking about more than likely does indeed suck.

I suggest you learn to offer better software to your clients or whatever. Popular != good.

 

[Maphusio]

When I said GOOD firewall, I meant a good one, not one of those overly popular pieces of crap.



Good firewalls have a seemingly endless amount of settings to configure, ya know? Including manual multi-level configuration of ALL port blocking. This is actually the biger issue with hardware firewalls, as they tend to be less configurable. Fully automated firewalls = fail. Most of the popular security suites are utter crap, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are the very same people who release the viruses they make you update for. The amount of viruses and other malicious software I have manually removed from mine and other peoples computers numbers in the several dozens, and that is no over exageration.

The issue here is that you and I are talking about completely different software.

The software you are talking about more than likely does indeed suck.

I suggest you learn to offer better software to your clients or whatever. Popular != good.

Well the issue really is you say things like "malware as a firewall.". When you phrase a sentence like that... how is anyone supposed to take you seriously or understand you?

Again, software firewalls can and most likely will break at one point in time regardless of how good they are or are not. Its in their nature.