Neverwinter Nights - How much is it worth?

[Misteryo]

This has been the most helpful thread I've ever started. Thanks, all!

Universalwolf, I have bookmarked the page of mods you suggested. It looks like good stuff.

I will probably pick up NWN soon, but not now. I have installed BG 1&2 with the Trilogy mod and a few others from Spellhold Studios, so I think I will have quite a bit of playing ahead of me.

misteryo

 

[FeelTheRads]

who can forget: "GO FOR THE EYES BOO, GO FOR THE EYES!!!

I already did, but thanks to you it's back now.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

 

[Ausdoerrt]

BG's combat was also crap. But perhaps you were so busy trying to keep your mages from running up to point blank range and getting in the way of your fighters that you didn't notice. At least BG & PS:T had better art and sounds to take people's minds off the tedium.

Then there are only 3 or 4 RPG games in existance that are good if all RT games are crap (aside from some Japanese titles). Purrease.

Art and sounds are entirely subjective, but I'd say music and art for NWN and BG2 are comparable and around the same level. If anything, graphics in NWN looks better than the sprites in BG. But, as per your definition, Fallout 3 is also better than BG, because it has a crap battle system, but great art, sounds and visuals to make up for it. Go figure.

If you're going to flame something, at least check that the ends of your argument connect.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Then there are only 3 or 4 RPG games in existance that are good

Yep, pretty much.

Art and sounds are entirely subjective, but I'd say music and art for NWN and BG2 are comparable and around the same level. If anything, graphics in NWN looks better than the sprites in BG.

Yep, totally:

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Your official high-resolution BG screenshot versus a low-quality snapshot at a bad angle from some lame fan-made module totaly makes a valid point =P

Should I post a screen cap comparing a BG forest with the final boss battle of NWN HotU?

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

IMO you should buy BGII, the expansion, and play a monk. It's so awesomingly (?) kick-ass that it's almost unfair for your enemies, you can win all battles by yourself.

I already have it and I can't imagine anything more boring. At least with a regular party there's something to do keeping the stupid magic users alive but sitting there watching a solo character take down all comers? I'd rather watch paint dry.

Then there are only 3 or 4 RPG games in existance that are good if all RT games are crap (aside from some Japanese titles). Purrease.

Who said anything about all real time rpgs being crap? I said BG's combat was crap, not all real time games. If you are going to design a game based on a set of turn based rules wouldn't it be logical to make the game turn based? TB is much more efficient for party control and would give even a solo character many more options to keep combat interesting. Alternatively if you are going to go real time then you need to ditch the TB rules entirely and involve the player more. Jade Empire and Mass Effect's combat systems had their flaws but were leaps and bounds more interesting than BG & NWN.

But, as per your definition, Fallout 3 is also better than BG, because it has a crap battle system, but great art, sounds and visuals to make up for it. Go figure.

Fallout 3 doesn't use the same system as BG though does it. Torment had the same combat as BG, the combat was still dull and boring but the rest of the game made up for it. BG, BGII, PS:T, NWN they all used the same basic system, NWN has more bells and whistles but then you only control one character. Those bells and whistles don't go far enough to make the combat interesting, as you said "Combat is pretty boring for fighters", don't you think then the system might be inheritantly flawed? This is the problem of real time and pause it doesn't offer the tactical depth of turn base combat, nor the interactivity of a real time, reflex based system. You end up watching your game play itself with you only occasionally needing to offer some input. The earlier games at least with controlling a party give you something more to do even if it's unintentionally fighting your own party's ai to keep them alive.


If you are going to grasp at straws, make sure they are connected to something first.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Your official high-resolution BG screenshot versus a low-quality snapshot

BG screenshot - 800x600
NWN screenshot - 1024x768

at a bad angle

It's a fairly common camera setting for NWN. Or is there some special angle at which object polygon count doubles and these washed-out, low-res blobs of color are replaced with something resembling textures?

from some lame fan-made module

That runs on the same engine as the base game. And uses the same art assets.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Screenshots alone don't tell the story of the difference in graphics between BG and NWN. In BG, every major area is different - painstakingly built and rendered by artists who made them works of art in themselves. There were times playing BG when I would enter a new area for the first time and say, "Wow. That is cool."

In NWN, every city looks exactly the same as every other city, and every tomb looks exactly the same as every other tomb, and none of them look that good to begin with, because they're all made from blocky 3D shapes.

Universalwolf, I have bookmarked the page of mods you suggested. It looks like good stuff.

Glad to help. I've said this before, but I like to point out Gagne's modules whenever I can because he did more than anyone to justify the money I spent on NWN. It just proves that good writing and execution can make a good RPG, even if the system is bad.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

from some lame fan-made module

That runs on the same engine as the base game. And uses the same art assets.

The Witcher runs on the same engine as NWN. On those screenshots, I'm not sure what you see, but I see low-resolution textures. NWN can look much better that that if you max all settings out. The only redeeming point for BG2 graphics is that it did the cities well. I found the rest of the areas pretty boring-looking. But I mean, cmon, a dungeon is a dungeon. The only game I know that made dungeons fun and good-looking is TOEE>

Anyway, it's pretty pointless to argue at this point. Both NWN and BG2 are average games that are fun to play, it's just that some people on this forum seem to idolize one and heavily flame another.

 

[FeelTheRads]

NWN can look much better that that if you max all settings out.

I dare you to find a screenshot that shows it. When I played it it looked like shit with everything on high.

BG2 isn't that great either (was at its time, though as opposed to NWN) but it sill is miles ahead of the pile of vomit that is NWN.

I found the rest of the areas pretty boring-looking.

Much better in NWN where pretty much everything was made out of square tiles.

NWN, the game where even the forests are square!

Anyway, it's pretty pointless to argue at this point.

Because you're losing in a hilarious way.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

On those screenshots, I'm not sure what you see, but I see low-resolution textures. NWN can look much better that that if you max all settings out.

Um, no, that's about as good as it gets. I'm not sure why you're having trouble accepting that, seeing as pretty much all old 3D games look awful and NWN is no exception.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

The Witcher runs on the same engine as NWN.

A modified and updated version of the engine maybe, but it certainly doesn't use the same art assets. So grasping at straws again as this has nothing to do with how good NWN looks compared to BG. I mean you wouldn't bring up Oblivion's graphics in a conversation comparing Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich to City of Heroes would you? After all FFv3R and Oblivion used the gamebyro engine.

 

[eternaut]

After all FFv3R and Oblivion used the gamebyro engine.

I didn't knew that. You learn something everyday!

Remarcable how a great and fun superhero game as FF was made with the same engine as that steaming crapfest.