New Syndicate Game

[x'il]

i just think that all this "money whores" and "developers who actually play games" and "dumbing down" is highly exaggerated theme on this forum to me its sound like whining about us been pushed out from the main stream...

And what has this to do with the topic at hand? (the new Syndicate remake?). I guess all these sequels and remakes that have been coming out these last few years with evidently simplified game mechanics, less challenge and zero creativity (in comparison to the previous iterations) are just 'us' whining and exaggerating...

 

[aenemic]

i just think that all this "money whores" and "developers who actually play games" and "dumbing down" is highly exaggerated theme on this forum to me its sound like whining about us been pushed out from the main stream...
we can also whine about today music main stream quality, rating worshiping "news", movies,tv shows or even internet porn... i just dont see the point

give me one example where an old revived franchise hasn't been dumbed down or otherwise simplified to suit a wider audience.

also, I whine a whole lot about the dumbing down that's going on both in the music world and hollywood. it's all the same. look at how many old movies are being re-made or getting completely useless sequels.

 

[matthewfarmery]

I can't think of a game that hasn't been dumbed down, ME was good, and aimed for PC, ME2, they made it console, and destroyed the game, DX IW good example, as the original didn't do that well for console, oblivion, shit, short story compared to morrowind, (which was far larger and much better story

Fallout 3, console, and by the looks of it, not that well liked, the next one, might be worse or marginally better then 3,

supreme commander 2, (shit game) ok supreme commander was a tricky game to get into, but they pretty much nerfed that game so badly, its hardly worth playing, maps are miles smaller, limited modding, don't know if anyone can make maps, (probably done to keep the console users happy)

dragon age, (maybe not a direct sequel to BG, but give me BG 1 and 2 any day of the week, plus biioware have messed up with patch 1.3, breaks more stuff then it fixes and no idea if or when a 1.4 is out, even the expansion isn't that great, big problem with that game, as a whole is the camera, you couldn't zoom out that far, or move around too much, if anything they ported it to the PC and didn't do a good job of making the PC version better,

the list goes on, too many games are getting ruined, too many games are becoming too simple, its a shame really, the PC game market is dying, and all we are seeing a piss poor console ports that don't do a good job of porting over to the PC, Modern Warfare 2 is another, don't think the PC version has dedicated server support, then you have the tom clancy games, rogue spear, and other gsames were very hard and tactical, now look at them, so bumbed down, and silly, especailly that recent fighter game, oh man that was a bad game, baby sit you when you were in one mod, and I doubt Tom Clancy has anything to do with the games anymore, just using his name to sell some silly dumbed down games, all the recent stuff with his name on it, not worth playing, give me the very old tactical games, now they were good and they are hard

list goes on, the list goes on

 

[mor]

I guess all these sequels and remakes that have been coming out these last few years with evidently simplified game mechanics, less challenge and zero creativity (in comparison to the previous iterations) are just 'us' whining and exaggerating...

yep and although i will argue on the zero creativity part, as i think that games especially FPS have shown amazing innovation and creativity and today production values and content wise incomparable to our classic.

on the "simplified game mechanics, less challenge", you are right on all accounts, i can even add some more things to rant about what the point?

its not really dumbing down, as we are not not the base line for comparison any more, its not the industry fault the games where and still are built for the main stream, the only difference is that we are not part of it anymore, its mostly casual gaming.

thus my comparison from the previous post, as the only dumb thing here is picking a casual game and expecting more than casual from it.


as for the exaggerating part, its normal to complain about it SOMETIME, i do it my self but here its like a party line before election, each time i come here and i was here ALOT during FO3 development and before, its always same stroll through memory lane and boulevard of broken dreams, come on cry me a river, get over it!!!

even Bethesda forum with all those kids there is less depressing .

 

[x'il]

yep and although i will argue on the zero creativity part, as i think that games especially FPS have shown amazing innovation and creativity and today production values and content wise incomparable to our classic.

I'm sorry but Lol, just lol. Two things: cover mechanics and health regen.

on the "simplified game mechanics, less challenge", you are right on all accounts, i can even add some more things to rant about what the point?

What's the point of complaining about anything in this life? what's the point of complaining about other people complaining?

its not really dumbing down, as we are not not the base line for comparison any more, its not the industry fault the games where and still are built for the main stream, the only difference is that we are not part of it anymore, its mostly casual gaming.

No. There is 'dumbing down', the base line for comparison are the previous game iterations and since they make the games, it is the industry's 'fault'. Also, not all games in the 'past' were made for 'everyone' but for certain audiences, nowadays the industry is hammering out all the 'edges' into a mainstream blob so they can try and sell any game to anyone. It's not a coincidence that so many game sequels have gone the dumb down/FPS route. You said it yourself right there 'it's mostly casual gaming' (was it always?). This 'we're not part of it anymore' and 'it's not the industry's fault' argument of yours is a nice twisted way to look at it, it leads to such other 'premium arguments' such as 'innovation' and 'nostalgia'.

thus my comparison from the previous post, as the only dumb thing here is picking a casual game and expecting more than casual from it.

Of course, but looking at the topic in this thread: IF (which most probably will) the new Syndicate remake turns out simplified, 6 year old easy and boring/non-creative (as so many other recent remakes have been), what will it be, will it be a casual game? was the original a casual game too? and if you claim that indeed it was, doesn't it not having even simpler game mechanics, challenge, etc than the originals, make it, without a doubt, 'dumbed down'?

as for the exaggerating part, its normal to complain about it SOMETIME, i do it my self but here its like a party line before election, each time i come here and i was here ALOT during FO3 development and before, its always same stroll through memory lane and boulevard of broken dreams, come on cry me a river, get over it!!!

People complaining about the shitty development route for a game called a fallout sequel in an old fallout fan-site with thousands of posters? Outrageous!

Stop making these broad generalizations.

Edit: Bah...

 

[mor]

yep and although i will argue on the zero creativity part, as i think that games especially FPS have shown amazing innovation and creativity and today production values and content wise incomparable to our classic.

I'm sorry but Lol, just lol. Two things: cover mechanics and health regen.

i intentional omitted specific examples as i was sure you'll deem them as unworthy and went with FPS generalization but this response of yours shows either complete lack of knowledge or some kind of selective logic.
there is a reason why First person genre has led the industry and its demand, which brings the big money for development.

apart from the obvious graphics (which is as big of a topic as anything else)
i'll go with half life, you probably liked, so lets say that they has come along way from those basic interactions and scripted ai you seen there.

from rule based Ai tactical ai to situation based weighted connections to neural networks, from mesh generation, path finding, group Path finding and formations, stances, use of sensory input, use of environments, use of complex environments and destructible ones.

its mat seem to its just shooting but behind it there amazingly complex tactical Ai, trying to understand the surrounding coordinate, maneuver, flank, engage, use cover, etc...
obviously we got all the npc, behaviors, interactions, lip sinc or anynumber of little things was tried there first

the also trying new things as personality profiling to adapt the game to you, which should work nicely in horror games.
and obviously all this work updated to other genres with tactical and strategic agents, emergent cognitive models, etc...
also UI engeniring, physics, social interactions etc...


basicly almost anything that makes our games good was there first, the only thing we need now is find someone to care enough and make a game for a more mature audience.
btw what's mass effect if not FPS with added RPG elements and a plot?
because last i checked RPG was mostly dead, up until the FPS brought it back with more and more RPG elements integration.
and now look we got mafia2 and red dead redemption worlds and more coming... if only they cared enough to make a FO game for us and you wouldnt had to whine all the time.

 

[x'il]

(...)because last i checked RPG was mostly dead, up until the FPS brought it back with more and more RPG elements integration.

Dragon Age and The Witcher are not FPS's, as well as many other RPG's by smaller developers such as the Avernuum games or Knights of the Chalice. Also, as for first person shooters with rpg elements, System Shock did it more than a decade ago for instance, so i'm not sure where you're trying to get with the above statement.

 

[aenemic]

(...)because last i checked RPG was mostly dead, up until the FPS brought it back with more and more RPG elements integration.

Dragon Age and The Witcher are not FPS's, as well as many other RPG's by smaller developers such as the Avernuum games or Knights of the Chalice. Also, as for first person shooters with rpg elements, System Shock did it more than a decade ago for instance, so i'm not sure where you're trying to get with the above statement.

exactly. most modern fps's with rpg influences pale in comparison with classics like Sustem Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

 

[PainlessDocM]

Information for the "unguided"

Syndicate intro:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw2W_Ap7m2k[/youtube]

Syndicate Wars intro:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrruSboN1bQ[/youtube]

History:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqO4iQCm8sM[/youtube]

...

 

[mor]

(...)because last i checked RPG was mostly dead, up until the FPS brought it back with more and more RPG elements integration.

Dragon Age and The Witcher are not FPS's, as well as many other RPG's by smaller developers such as the Avernuum games or Knights of the Chalice. Also, as for first person shooters with rpg elements, System Shock did it more than a decade ago for instance, so i'm not sure where you're trying to get with the above statement.

considering the rare RPG we get and chance is that you think that half of them are dumbed down, proves my point.

also dragon age and the witcher are great(btw is there a TBA for witcher 2?) but we are not speaking about great games but innovations and while both are based on the BioWare engine's which brought many of our top games(like infinity dough) its really hard for me to put my finger on many innovation it offered most definitely not in the same league as the above "cover mechanics and health regen"

 

[PainlessDocM]

This new game should be like Syndicate /wars (obviously)just 'upgrade' it to a new modern DX 9 / DX10 engine and hire talented writers, keep the canon, keep the viewpoint (option to switch to FPS would be a cool extra) But they will turn this into a silly FPS game which is sad and indeed common .

 

[matthewfarmery]

I loved the first one, the second one was a lot harder until you did a few bank jobs on some levels, but that was annoying sometimes as the explosives were a little bugged, but the original was a really classic, second one was ok, but between the two, I say 1 was better

 

[PainlessDocM]

Both are amazing games, the amount of atmosphere you get in Bullfrog games is exceptional.
They were my favorite developers. I played both games and American revolt to the point they gave me seizures


'Satellite rain'

 

[x'il]

considering the rare RPG we get and chance is that you think that half of them are dumbed down, proves my point.

No, you haven't proven anything (as per my argument above regarding 'dumbing down' that you selectively chose to ignore)

If anything what you seem to be saying is that people shouldn't complain and they should take these remakes and sequels as they come without question (and like them too?) because, well, that's just how it is. Which is, you know, pffftt... No, thanks.

Too much off-topic now. Stopping.

 

[mor]

^ sure i did, you maid a stupid remark regarding innovations and i explained you its more then just "cover mechanics and health regen" but most of the stuff we use today.

as for the 2 games example, if you want me to spell it out for you then the majority of sales in this genre are FP games or ARPG if you wish, if we eliminate those and mmorpg its the least sold one.

and no i have no problem with complaining but endless whining which i already told in my previous posts and see no point to expend any further.

This new game should be like Syndicate /wars (obviously)just 'upgrade' it to a new modern DX 9 / DX10 engine and hire talented writers, keep the canon, keep the viewpoint (option to switch to FPS would be a cool extra) But they will turn this into a silly FPS game which is sad and indeed common .

making it into an FPS wont be the worst thing yet, at least this way you can discard it as a spin off and forget about it.
while lame ass attempts like UFO ET supposedly a sequel to XCOM, found to be a major cause for hair loss
(btw after years there is a community mod for UFO ET by bman that makes it playable)

i doubt that "switch to FPS" will be a good idea, its will only make into a mediocre game in both styles, i dont know what their plans but there is other options for example warhammer 40K style

 

[x'il]

^blablabla... ::sigh::

And what i'm saying is; a) there's definitely something that can be qualified as 'dumbing down' in most (or all) recent years remakes and sequels to 'old' games. b) the gaming industry does this on purpose, c) Rpg's need not be fps's or even 'mainstream' to make a profit, and d) 'whining' about other people 'whining' is just as much 'whining' (only worse).

Jeez...

 

[matthewfarmery]

problem is, there are too many FPS out there, and even the recent ones DO NOT bring anything new or special to the genre that hasn't really been seen before, Quake 4, average game, even the story wasn't that strong, but it was mainly graphics driven, yes you could use vehicles, but so could several other games, and weapons, well nothing special

now you have all these war ones, and EA are redoing medial of honour, but from what I have seen of it, looks very much like modern warfare's. bad bad company,

the FPS genre has been over populated with too many clones, because its easy for consoles, if syndicate becomes a FPS, it will join the mass of mediocre style FPSs that graces the shelves of many high street shops, and it won;t be anything like the first two in any way, the only thing they can do is to add a story, or spruce up the graphics, but that only makes games really big, but makes the levels small, in many ways, better graphics do not equal a better game, beside plenty of recent games that require huge amounts of space, but the game is usually short as a lot of space will be reserved for the graphics and sound files,

the only way it would work is if it has RPG elements,but if like FO3, I don't think it will work all that well, and I wasn't that keen on FO3 at all,

games are just becoming clones, too many games coming out you seen al before, only a good story will keep the game interesting, but many good gamers will probably complete it in several hours, a real problem is, it will be aimed for causal gamers, so the story will be short and easy, it may have MP, but the life expectancy I doubt will be that much, full priced game and you complete and resell it afterwards, that is how many games are going, especially the FPS genre, which I really hope it wont be