(This is the end where you arrange a truce between NCR and BoS and then go for Wild Card) Im wondering why it assumes the Courier wont send his/ her Securitrons to keep the Brotherhood in line, even perhaps offering information in the Lucky 38 as well as extra Security for Hidden Valley in exchange for stopping their harassment of plasma or laser carrying Wastelanders. Or if worse comes to worse he can easily just have his Securitrons intimidate them. I just found it weird how it has no mention of the Courier trying to stop them, maybe an open ended ending for them would have been better, like, "The Brotherhood of Steel continued to harass travelers, worrying the Courier. A vast army of Securitrons are heading towards Hidden Valley, offering an alliance and technology from the Lucky 38 in exchange for ceasement of harassment on Mojave Citizens....or offering death"
Not So Good End for BoS in Wild Card Ending
- Thread starter X12
- Start date
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
House's Projections indicated that, unless the BOS was erradicated in their bunker they would prove to be a threat to his plans. Yes Man even mocks you when you tell him you negotiated a truce between the NCR and the BOS while alluding to House's projections, he may eventually kill them but he'll spend way too many resources on it, or alternatively if you helped them negotiate a truce it is implied you are having mercy on them and not destroying them al together, they probbly just keep to the roads with close to no Securitrons to harrass travelers. Also, the BOS wouldn't take an outsider having an army of advanced robots with a smile either.
In any case if the ending just resolved any conflict presented by your choice with some handwaved it would make it the Ideal Ending, which is a thign New Vegas avoids to have.
In any case if the ending just resolved any conflict presented by your choice with some handwaved it would make it the Ideal Ending, which is a thign New Vegas avoids to have.
As for your point about BoS not liking an outsider having advance robot army, that would make sense.....except for the fact in order to negotiate a truce between them and NCR you would need to have completed the quests "Still in the Dark" and "Eyesight to the Blind", which, along with Power Armor training, the Courier is rewarded with the rank of Paladin upon completion. I was kinda peeved it seemed like my character was sitting with their thumb up their rear when it came to the Brotherhood. If he needed to kill them his vast army of non pain feeling, replenishable robots would be able to easily do it. Remember House didnt know where the Brotherhood are. Courier does. Or they could offer access to some of the Luck 38's tech. Plasma and Lasers arent that rare, but an anti-nuke laser defense system would be very useful to the Brotherhood should the NCR decide to go that far. Anyway im not asking for an ideal ending, just one where something got done.
Kilgore Trout
Gyro Captain
I've said elsewhere that I think there should have been a special ending where if Courier opts for Independence, destroys the Securitron Army, and joins the Brotherhood, the BoS wind up taking control of the Mojave. Vegas would be ransacked for technology and the Three Families would be crushed, the survivors returning to the tribal existence they led before meeting Mr. House.
Actually, House is well aware of the location of Hidden Valley and quite specifically directs you there to destroy them. While the Securitron Army could probably dispatch the Mojave Brotherhood, it would most likely be a long, bloody campaign. I'm also not sure how replaceable the Secutrions are; my understanding is that they were manufactured before the Great War, and that the factories and level of tech required to make new ones no longer exist (unless you count that plant in Big Mt, but I think that was to decomission Securitrons, anyway), so every loss against the BoS would ultimately weaken Vegas' defenses. Better for House or a truly Independent Vegas to simply remove them from the equation.
I'm not sure they'd be crushed as long as they stayed out of the way (though the Van Graffs would be in a pretty tight spot), though with House out of the picture and Vegas now an unprotected frontier and symbol of humiliation rather than a tourist spot in the eyes of the NCR, I don't see their fortunes flourishing after that.
Of course, that all depends on how much the BOS turns out to be able to gain from the .38's facilities. If they've sufficiently grown out of their overcaution, there's every chance in the world that a partially functional vault and a tower with its own working reactor, both within a walled city, might seem appealing to them. Then again, it presents several security vulnerabilities, not the least of which is the fact that it's widely known and every player in the wastes has eyes on it, so who knows?
As to the Securitrons, I've always wondered why the BOS wouldn't just seek to acquire them. As a study in advanced robotics and a force multiplier they could scarcely hope to do better. If the player was a Brotherhood member and opted for New Vegan independance, I'd think the BOS would toss them in the stockade for destroying them rather than patting them on the back. With Securitrons and Eyebots, the Mojave chapter could become a force to reckon with.
My opinion is once the Brotherhood becomes aware of how many Securitrons there are they will back off, if only temporarily. The conflict at Helios is relatively recent, and Im pretty sure the Brotherhood doesnt want to start a new war, especially after getting back on their feet so recently.
If your Courier hasn't aligned themselves with the Brotherhood, yes. If you have, if (and this is a big "if") you're actually "with" them rather than just joining for power armor training or to tick yet another entry off in your quest log, the Brotherhood would have nothing to fear and everything to gain.
That's one of the things that bothered me most about the Wild Card ending and the only reason it's not a clear favorite for me-- the fate of the Mojave would depend entirely on your particular Courier's allegiances and agenda, and there's no way for the game to take those into account.
That's one of the things that bothered me most about the Wild Card ending and the only reason it's not a clear favorite for me-- the fate of the Mojave would depend entirely on your particular Courier's allegiances and agenda, and there's no way for the game to take those into account.
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
It's damn BoS, technophiles and nothing more.
No matter what truce beetwen BoS-NCR or BoS-Vegas got signed, at some point they will turn against each other. (BoS just won't accept someone having army of robots or high-tech)
Basically what @Walpknut said.
Don't except such endings from Devs, otherwise you can demand any-faction leading ending, not only 3 main + inde.
Inde ending is all up to you. : )
Just imagine that they had to "rewrite" ALL other endings if they would do another inde-bos like.
And remember guys that Courier is more like "honorary" member of the BoS, not normal member sharing their ideology and more, especially seeing how "long" he's member of the BoS.
No matter what truce beetwen BoS-NCR or BoS-Vegas got signed, at some point they will turn against each other. (BoS just won't accept someone having army of robots or high-tech)
Basically what @Walpknut said.
It's up to you. A little more roleplay and it can happen in your mind.
Don't except such endings from Devs, otherwise you can demand any-faction leading ending, not only 3 main + inde.
Inde ending is all up to you. : )
Just imagine that they had to "rewrite" ALL other endings if they would do another inde-bos like.
And remember guys that Courier is more like "honorary" member of the BoS, not normal member sharing their ideology and more, especially seeing how "long" he's member of the BoS.
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No Man
Gore Bag > Meat Bag
X12, why are you so focused on keeping the BoS alive? They had never been strictly 'good guys' (not the western BoS anyway) and in NV they seemed to have passed 'neutral guys' they used to be somewhere on the way. Their entire ideology revolves around keeping people in the dark. This was sorta acceptable in the 2170s, with the 'keep the dangerous toys away from the primitives' policy, but in the late 23rd century this line doesn't fly no more. And while it's really tragic for people like McNamara, who obviously know where this is going, none of them seem to realise that their tech-hoarding agenda is getting downright villainous. To be honest, I used to keep them around just for Veronica's sake, but after I looked at her endings, it's not that simple for me anymore. She doesn't get any really good endings, but killing BoS, while devastating for her, sets her free. She's no longer sitting around waiting for their inevitable demise, neither is she forced into a life of solitde, haunted by her past. She might hate you for it, but I think killing them is the best option here.
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Two words: Energy. Weapons. I rather get them from the BoS than the Van Graffs. Note for next games: have more places to buy Energy Weapons. My highest ranged weapons skill is Energy Weapons. I guess I rather not destroy them unless i have to. Because while the BoS is a Dark Grey/ Light Black (depending on your point of view), the Van Graffs are Black in morality.
Speaking of BoS, why does the T-51b and T45d helmets still give you Charisma boost? Back in the CW that makes sense, but here it doesnt. Unless it means intimidation, but that would mean Remnants armor should have it too.
Makes as much sense as a full-body brahmin-leather outfit increasing your agility, imo. It's just a symptom of Magical Clothing Syndrome. It's only the T-51b that gives the charisma boost (in both games), so I'd imagine it's a nod to the iconic old-school charm of the original design rather than any in-game reason, kind of a wink at the camera.
Kilgore Trout
Gyro Captain
I am an Energy Weapons fanatic, but I will still wipe out both the Brotherhood and the Van Graffs in just about every playthrough. You really do not need to rely on either organization to obtain or maintain your blasters, and even with both of them out of the picture ammo is plentiful and sold by just about every major merchant in the wasteland, along with weapon mods. Get the Scrounger perk and you'll be finding piles of MF cells almost every time you open an ammo box.
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No Man
Gore Bag > Meat Bag
There is an ending where the Courier and a Brotherhood elder take over the Mojave. In a rather harsh way, but it's not like anyone in the Mojave will disagree on that one. Requires Dead Money though.
Legatus Nuntius
First time out of the vault
The Western BOS really can't have any good endings. They've forgotten all about protecting technology so it can be reintroduced to protecting people from technology. This translates into various terrorist attacks on innocent people drawing the attention of larger factions. I believe this is partly because the less isolationist elements went to Chicago and DC, they the balance in ideology they previously had.
No Man
Gore Bag > Meat Bag
I once read a comparison between BoS and the Catholic Church. See, the Church has a lot of problems adjusting in the modern world and is losing popularity among the Catholics and non-Catholics and is often seen as backwards and conservative. The thing is there are actually many progressive Catholic priests, but mostly on the lower levels with the higher levels being reserved for conservative hardliners. Why is it reserved? Because the hardliners promote other hardliners. That is how the BoS works too. The conservative members remain in power even though there might be more 'Veronicas' within the group. The progressive members, however are seen as troublesome and therefore shunned by other, Codex-worshipping members, who choose to promote more of those thinking like themselves, thus keeping the BoS in 2170s when those times are long gone and forgotten.
Gsonderling
First time out of the vault
Not so long ago one "Veronica" became Pope.
IMO The brotherhood will eventually reform. It will take time mind you but it will happen. Now that the contact with command is lost other isolated chapters will start to adapt and diffentiate to local conditions and it won't take long before they start to question the dogma.
IMO The brotherhood will eventually reform. It will take time mind you but it will happen. Now that the contact with command is lost other isolated chapters will start to adapt and diffentiate to local conditions and it won't take long before they start to question the dogma.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I rather see the BOS becoming more and more unstable, becoming small splinter factions like the Circle of Steel and the like. It's bee a little short of 150 years of people growing up indoctrinated into their mentality and the only good thing we can get from this is a revolt that divides the brotherhood into new factions.
EnclaveKnight
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I do not think the BoS were ever meant to be the knights in shining power armor they were in 3. I think they were meant as an example of human corruption with power.
Big No
Watch as I open and close this door
Wouldn't the Enclave be more around that whole power thing though?