Oblivion Combat

[Odin]

Steve Meister aka MrSmileyFaceDude from Bethesda has written an article about the combat in Oblivion (Elder Scrolls), not really Fallout related but considering that this guy will most likely do the combat engine in Fallout 3 it makes sense to see what might be in store for Fallout 3 (remember that this doesn't mean that Oblivion and Fallout 3 will be using the same combat system):<blockquote>Gone are the days of "Always Use Best Attack." Button mashing will NOT result in successful combat. Skills and stats are still as crucial as ever. The goal is to make combat exciting, violent and fun, while still maintaining the balance between character skills and player skills.
.....
To perform "normal" attacks, you just click the attack button to swing your melee weapon. If you click again at a certain point in the swing, you can perform another attack on the back swing - so you can do multiple slashes with your weapon by properly timed clicks of the attack button. Each time you attack, some fatigue is burned..
....
In Morrowind, blocking was done automatically, based on your blocking skill. For Oblivion, blocking is now performed manually using a block button. Just hold the button, and you can block - either with your shield OR with a weapon...
.....
The answer is another new feature: recoil. If an attacker's blow is blocked, the attacker will recoil. Think of a sword bouncing off a shield. Recoils send the opponent back a little bit, and it takes a second or two for them to recover
</blockquote>This will give you a headsup on how combat is handled (there's more to read in the article tho), recoil sounds like a neaty feature. So what if Fallout was to be like this? Post your opinions about that in the news comments.

Link: Steve talks about Combat in Oblivion

Spotted at Worthplaying.
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[Odin]

Personally I must say that the combat in Oblivion sounds ok enough for me, as for the whole button mashing part..meh..it's sounds to me like it will be the same button mashing as before, *click click clickety CLICK CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK*

As to the question of having Fallout be like this, then I would say *sigh* ANOTHER SELLOUT!! It's been tried before with FBOS, which tanked hard. The only difference between FBos and Oblivion would be the view angle and the graphics, of course there are other features in Oblivion which makes it a little more interesting but in the end it's an action game with RPGich elements, not an RPG.

 

[Shadowbird]

No isometric view? No TBC? If this is what Fallout 3 comes out with, it's doomed.

BTW, I will also be really pissed if they make character faces like those in Morrowind - just plain ugly.

 

[FJO the III]

I'm trying not to despair yet. I can accept first person, but button mashing?

Fortunately, this isn't Fallout 3.





Yet.

 

[Ashmo]

Y'know, having combat success based entirely upon the dexterity of the player is probably as bad as it could get for FO3. What they describe is just button smashing with a bit of timing involved.

In a way Fallout's combat system is very strategical by nature. You have time to consider your options and can cautiously spend your APs on different actions.
FPS style combat relies much more on the player's reactions than the player's brain capabilities.

But we all know that, I guess. Let's hope Bethesda not only knows it but does it.

 

[Frog]

About that combat system ... bah, gothic 2 anyone ?

 

[sunny jim]

Y'know, having combat success based entirely upon the dexterity of the player is probably as bad as it could get for FO3. What they describe is just button smashing with a bit of timing involved.

In a way Fallout's combat system is very strategical by nature. You have time to consider your options and can cautiously spend your APs on different actions.
FPS style combat relies much more on the player's reactions than the player's brain capabilities.

But we all know that, I guess. Let's hope Bethesda not only knows it but does it.

I believe bethesda stated quite clearly that fallout3 will be nothing like oblivion, so comparing such specific things as combat system, is pretty pointless... i'm quite sure that the only thing which will be in common between fallout 3 and oblivion, will be the engine, and that means NOTHING.

 

[Briosafreak]

About that combat system ... bah, gothic 2 anyone ?

Yep, i thought about that too. Still it`s a positive step, the fanbase in their forum seems to be pretty much on the FPS side, asking for character skills to be even less important, but they seem to have found a good compromise. It`s good to see they learn something from previous experiences.

Having said that this has nothing to do with Fallout3, at least i hope so, and they sent notice only to the goatse fansite (DAC) and the tubgirl fansite (RPGCodex) so there`s no need for this newspic i guess. But well things are a bit slow on the newsfront...

 

[Ashmo]

I hope the engine is capable of that or will be modified appropriately for Fallout 3.

But I'm sane enough not to trust in it being so.

 

[dude_obj]

i'm quite sure that the only thing which will be in common between fallout 3 and oblivion, will be the engine, and that means NOTHING.

Nothing? Combat would be one of the engine's main tasks, and I don't think there are many (if any) engines that are made with a generic enough architecture to radically change how combat works.

 

[Ashmo]

Please fix your post. You have one open quote too many therefore making it sound like you were quoting me.

I too doubt that the combat procedures aren't hardcoded.

If they weren't insane enough to rely on scripting for half the game mechanics, our only hope is that they are going to rewrite various parts and therefore heavily modify the existing engine.
A one-to-one port wouldn't mean "Morrowind with guns" because it's obviously not Morrowind's engine, but it'd still MEAN "Oblivion with guns" because it would be de facto Oblivion's engine. And although that might not be AS bad as Morrowind as basis, it's still a nightmare I don't want to see coming true.

 

[Macaco]

Nothing? Combat would be one of the engine's main tasks, and I don't think there are many (if any) engines that are made with a generic enough architecture to radically change how combat works.

You're quite misinformed... modern 3D engines are very flexible, Check out the commander interface in Natural Selection (Half Life mod) for example: http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/gallery/1911742088b30bebe2.jpg
And that's a mere mod, absolutely nothing was changed on the engine... There's other examples... Codename gordon (a Platformer Half life mod), i know at least 2 unreal tournament mods with 3rd person cameras and point&click combat...

Anyway, I doubt they'll do that in fallout... that's as much an rpg as deus ex was. It could lead Oblivion to being a better game then mormonwind, but anything depending on player reflexes sure wouldn't work for fallout (by the way, deux ex was lovely)

 

[dude_obj]

You're quite misinformed... modern 3D engines are very flexible, Check out the commander interface in Natural Selection (Half Life mod) for example: http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/gallery/1911742088b30bebe2.jpg
And that's a mere mod, absolutely nothing was changed on the engine... There's other examples... Codename gordon (a Platformer Half life mod), i know at least 2 unreal tournament mods with 3rd person cameras and point&click combat...

What does the interface and camera angle have to do with it? This doesn't inform me of much. It would take more to convince me. I will say I have tried stretching the limits of a few 3D engines. Flexible they were not, though they try to be. Remember my choice of words "radically change combat".

 

[tstnme]

Well, Anachronox used the Quake 2 Engine and had a point-and-click interface and turnbased combat.
Also Project IGI, which was a FPS, was based on the engine of a flight simulator (Joint Strike Fighter).

Modern 3d engines are pretty flexible.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Don't worry, my article describes Oblivion, not Fallout 3. And it won't be hard to swap in a radically different combat scheme

 

[Silencer]

Don't worry, my article describes Oblivion, not Fallout 3. And it won't be hard to swap in a radically different combat scheme

That is outstanding to hear, as for me what you described seems to be even more player-dexterity-oriented than Morrowind...

 

[dude_obj]

Don't worry, my article describes Oblivion, not Fallout 3. And it won't be hard to swap in a radically different combat scheme

Okay I eat my words Although the fantasy genre isn't really my thing, Oblivion sounds pretty cool. One thing I read that I thought was excellent was how NPCs will have conversations with each other and you can listen to what they say, for example in a tavern. I'll give both Oblivion and FO3 a whirl, but that very, very, VERY long time sounds like while. Maybe thats a good thing.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Don't worry, my article describes Oblivion, not Fallout 3. And it won't be hard to swap in a radically different combat scheme

That is outstanding to hear, as for me what you described seems to be even more player-dexterity-oriented than Morrowind...

Hmm, maybe a little... except for manual blocking, the controls are pretty much identical to Morrowind's -- it's just that now, selecting different attacks is actually worthwhile and has more meaning than it did in Morrowind. Like I mentioned in the article, it's a balance between player skill and character stats. TES games have always been like that.

 

[Claw]

What about the "spinning manouver" mentioned in the article? That didn't sound like one of Morrowind's standard attacks.

I don't see how anyone could call Morrowind "player-dexterity-oriented", Silencer. All you could do was press the attack button and wait for the result of your ToHit roll. It was all about your character's skills.

 

[Silencer]

I don't see how anyone could call Morrowind "player-dexterity-oriented", Silencer.

Uhm, nononono Claw, I was refering to the system described as a dexterity-oriented (I see it might have not been obvious from my wording) In Morrowind, I saw the combat as statistic-oriented, and it won my heart - although the game wasn't a FPP combat game, it provided a reasonable combat system and wasn't as stiff as the Might and Magic series which I've also played.

But in the sytem described, MrSmileyFaceDude wrote about something which seems to me much like Mortal Kombat-style combos - a comcept I'm not ant all in favour of. That's why I called it dexterity-oriented - I understand that a succesful combo would depend on the player's timing instead of PC's statistics.

Even the use of the word "button" instead of "key"has me worried. I would be loathe to see such a system in Fallout 3, though I'm entirely certain I won't.