Obsidian's Cain/Boyarsky project gets a publisher

[Black Angel]

One thing in particular is bothering me. This bit, right here:

We virtually let you do anything. If you're a Dwarf, you immediately get penalised if you try to use magic, vice versa with Elves and technology. Which made [it possible to make] non-viable characters, but we were like 'oh it's so cool, people will love playing this!'. If we went back and did it now, we [could] say it was a racial thing [where] Dwarves are not able to use magic [and] cut out some of those things that were not viable builds, save ourselves a lot of headaches and still pretty much have the same game. Just things you realise in hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight, that might have been a fine thing to do. But after experiencing Arcanum, imposing such limitation by some hardcode would actually results in a more restrictive game. Especially considering with Arcanum's system in particular, we could've a Dwarf companion who happened to learn magic with the Elves of Qintarra, and even a quest related to him. Because of the system, he actually sucked as a companion, but I don't feel like his presence detracts anything from the game, and actually adds to it.

And I really don't understand what 'lot of headaches' he's referring here, but if this is the mindset he's going to carry on to develop whatever he is cooking with Tim Cain (whom also have troubling mindset of thinking his past games's character creation were 'too complex'), then I probably gonna look a little less forward to their game.

 

[0wing]

Apparently the times have changed, and so did the target audience. Interwebz are much more accessible nowadays, elderly numbers-loving nerds and highly educated professionals from various fields are vastly outnumbered now, being replaced with young and impatient folks asking for easy ways in their lives.
Vox populi, vox Dei..

Tim Cain's a good designer, but SPECIAL is no D&D or CP2020 ruleset, not anywhere deep.

RPG fans of the 90s, 00s and present time are the same proles or schoolboys and others that are far from your typical nerd, see RPG Codex' average poster, so don't kid at least yourself. And Fallout along with Baldur's Gate played a key role in forming of mass appeal market. Methinks it's game developers who underestimate people's intelligence and went too(oooooooooooooooooooooo) far in simplifying game mechanics and character creation now so they have to make such excuses as Tim Cain done here when in reality it's best to make a comeback with numbers like old SPECIAL. Because who could really think that this is as clear and simple as this or even this? I think hiding information and modern perk point systems actually make alot more questions than older number filled sheets where you have more freedom with your character creation and development simply because of higher number pool. Besides, it still doesn't resolve the question of skills/talents/perks usage. If you spent one perk point on actually useless talent, you're screwed far more than spending occasional 15-20 point in Gambling in Fallout 2.

 

[valcik]

RPG fans of the 90s, 00s and present time are the same proles or schoolboys and others that are far from your typical nerd, see RPG Codex' average poster, so don't kid at least yourself.

No way.
We've started with 8-bit computers as a schoolboys (PMD 85 in former Czechoslovakia in my case) and you've had to be technically savvy to some extent in order to load a programm and run it - impossible without knowing at least few basic OS commands. Actually I've had quite a few programming lessons under my belt before playing my first digital game..

Just compare it with modern average gamepad-toting RPG player running Playstation 4, which is fool-proof system for dummies - just push this big green button here and play. And that's EXACTLY what's going on with Tim creating one-button interface for this new target audience.

 

[SomeDudeandHisDog]

So am I, but I still don't understand why I would have to be blind to the good things in Infinity games and bad things in Fallout and Troika games .

I hate Infinity Engine not because their bad games but because of how the Codex loves to shit on every other game if it isnt like Baldur's Gate.
For short, Hate by Association.

 

[0wing]

No way.
We've started with 8-bit computers as a schoolboys (PMD 85 in former Czechoslovakia in my case) and you've had to be technically savvy to some extent in order to load a programm and run it - impossible without knowing at least few basic OS commands. Actually I've had quite a few programming lessons under my belt before playing my first digital game.

Dobré. But computer lessons is not something uncommon in easter countries of late 80s/90s, after all a generation of talented eastern ZX Spectrum programmers (some of which found a job at modern game industry) arose from schoolboys in computer classes. But that's still not relevant since most of the time those computers were used for just gaming and more of an 1980s thing on the west, and RPGs of the 90s ran on Widnows 95/98 (The popular DOS era titles also had mouse interface, ease your jimmies) and have this slick accessible mouse friendly interface that even works today on tablets and phones decades later, by your definition a clear decline. It's still baffles me though that you needed to take a programming lessons to type commands into command prompt when all it takes is to read an instruction book (And boy it takes a special kind of mind to misunderstand soviet documentation) yet brag about Playstation 4 being OOGA BOOGA.

ust compare it with modern average gamepad-toting RPG player running Playstation 4, which is fool-proof system for dummies - just push this big green button here and play. And that's EXACTLY what's going on with Tim creating one-button interface for this new target audience.

I won't since Obsidian is multiplatform, I'd better compare to the most popular PC game on steam - DotA 2. And mechanically speaking it's far more demaning than any of classic or modern CRPG, it involves both long-term and short-term planning of your character "build" with items you purchase, invovlves reaction and cunning in combat. But I'll be damned if DOTA 2 is some prestigious not-for-everybody kind of entertaiment.
On consoles there's this neat MMO called Final Fantasy XIV, which has adapted classic D20 system for it's needs. I don't see why the same can't be applied to single player rpgs. Do you also know what mod gotten into Witcher 3's nexus top gameplay mod? TW3 Enhanced Edition, google it. Morale of this shitty text? People will play anything nowadays if it's still a good game. And the more conservative approach to character generation, the better. Better chances for future Incline.

 

[Risewild]

I hate Infinity Engine not because their bad games but because of how the Codex loves to shit on every other game if it isnt like Baldur's Gate.
For short, Hate by Association.

And that is one of the reasons why you won't find me on the Codex .

 

[valcik]

.. RPGs of the 90s ran on Widnows 95/98 and have this slick accessible mouse friendly interface that even works today on tablets and phones decades later, by your definition a clear decline.

Yes, in terms of technical knowledge requirements it was clear decline in comparison with DOS games from the same era, making video games accessible to broader audience. And the process still goes on, that's my point - things are getting easier and easier to access for anyone since get go, allowing much younger/less technically educated people to play video games.

 

[0wing]

Yes, in terms of technical knowledge requirements it was clear decline in comparison with DOS games from the same era, making video games accessible to broader audience. And the process still goes on, that's my point - things are getting easier and easier to access for anyone since get go, allowing much younger/less technically educated people to play video games.

And my terribly delivered point is that Win95/98 era of simple and accessible will suffice and no need to go deepersimpler. And also no need to pretend RPGs are elite and prestigious, average MOBA or games like EYE Divine Cybermancy will win the "complexity" competition anyway.

 

[valcik]

It's still baffles me though that you needed to take a programming lessons to type commands into command prompt ..

Straw-man, Vuk level actually. Stop it.
What I wrote was that we started with programming in our school long before having access to any video game, putting in perspective how different it was then and now.

 

[Black Angel]

I hate Infinity Engine not because their bad games but because of how the Codex loves to shit on every other game if it isnt like Baldur's Gate.
For short, Hate by Association.

And that is one of the reasons why you won't find me on the Codex .

I'm sorry, what?

If you guys haven't notice by now, RPG Codex Top 70 cRPGs listed Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines as #2, #3, #5, and #6 respectively, with Planescape: Torment as #1 and Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn as #4 respectively. That's 4 non-IE games vs 2 IE games in top 6 alone. And if you actually paid attention to day-to-day discussion in there forum, you will notice they're not such a hivemind ("love to shit on every other game if it isn't like Baldur's Gate") that you guys make them out to be.

 

[Plzstandbuy]

New post-apocalypticia? I think someone mentioned a while ago that post-apocalypse settings had fallen out of favor since the end of the cold war, and dystopias were more relevant to today's audiences. I think they mentioned wanting to do a cyber punk dystopia. Might have been Chris Avellone, but I can't quite remember.

 

[Risewild]

I'm sorry, what?

If you guys haven't notice by now, RPG Codex Top 70 cRPGs listed Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines as #2, #3, #5, and #6 respectively, with Planescape: Torment as #1 and Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn as #4 respectively. That's 4 non-IE games vs 2 IE games in top 6 alone. And if you actually paid attention to day-to-day discussion in there forum, you will notice they're not such a hivemind ("love to shit on every other game if it isn't like Baldur's Gate") that you guys make them out to be.

What I meant by my post is that the Codex has way more obnoxious people than in here for example.

I don't deal well with obnoxious people that are too single minded about stuff they shouldn't be single minded about .
Here there a quite a few more single minded people (but not as obnoxious), at least I can still point out the good or bad in whatever game I want, and they will usually accept that it's my opinion instead of getting butthurt and making a scene .