Possible idea for "Twin gun shooting"**

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Perk : Gunslinger.

Holding two pistols in each hand you can fire faster than most people.


------------------------------------------------------

Perk means :
This would only be allowable if you had a pistol type gun in each hand, no rifles or such. ie laser pistol, smg, etc.

Now for game balancing reasons there would be two ideas. One : You would get one action point off each shot. Or...
You fire the first pistol and get 1ap off the cost of the second.

Anyhoo. Just an idea. If you have suggestions to balance it ingame please post them.

**"Twin gun shooting" = Shooting two guns at once, once in each hand, a la Max Payne, Matrix, etc. etc. etc. You no doubt know that...
 
It's called 'akimbo'

And in reality, it is a waste of ammo unless fired at point-blank range, no matter what kind of a marksman you are. I toyed with the idea for a while, but decided that it'd be better not to have akimbo guns in a game, because frankly it's just a gimmick.

Just my opinion so far, though.

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RE: It's called 'akimbo'

havent heard 'akimbo' since the days of "Blood" the most ammusing first person shooter. guns akimbo with the tommyguns was great =]

how about you can only use "guns akimbo" with new weapons that are added in the game and the dual guns act just like a burstfire and you set how many shots you want to take = certain ap. as long as these guns are not so superpowerful that you could use 2 of the best weapons in the game with it.

but anywho i know my idea is very far from complete and im currently "hopped up on goofballs" =] so that explains for most of the stupidity ;)
 
Ah, Thanks.

Still, Thats what I love about fallout. The small gimmicks and oddities :)
 
RE: Ah, Thanks.

Balance issue here. Can you imagine the hits you'll make dual wielding two H&K P90c's ? You can argue that the same goes for the bozar and you're right but that gun was unbalaced aswell.

JR

Nunc ut nunquam
 
RE: Ah, Thanks.

hmmm i wouldnt mind akimbo , only if limited to pistols and small smgs , as the game progressed the only decent one was the .223 pistol and that just wouldnt stand up to a enclave with a plasma rifle ... oh and only a perk , dont make it too easy for them..
 
Just a tought

How am i supposed to reload both guns if i'm carrying a gun in each hands?
I put one on the ground while i reload the other?
Seems to me like a waste of time.
Ok so you could fire twice as many shots in one round, but it would take you two round to reload your guns. Being shot at for two rounds w/o retaliation is not something that i look for..


Just my two cents.


"I'm Ugly and I AM CANADIAN!"
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It would make the game too easy.
Imagine what happens to your enemies if you hold two 2mm EC Pistols.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-02 AT 11:11PM (GMT)[p][font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-02 AT 11:08 PM (GMT)

Hi, i am new here.

anyways, well i like the idea of dual pistols. Every game that involves guns, rifles and stuff should have akimbo.
My idea was to have this as a perk, it reduces critical hit by 30% chance, bonus damage reduced with 15%, you wont be able to aim shot, but can burst fire.
It takes 5 AP to shoot (2 shots after eachother), 4 AP reload.
I think that is well balanced for a perk.
 
The reality of twin gun shooting is that it is possible, but requires a level of ambidexterity to aim both at the same time. Reloading is possible atleast for conventional semi-automatic pistols because of the clip drop. You push the button, clip drops out, you thumb a clip in your opposite hand and pop it into the gun in the other hand. 12 aps makes absolutely no sense game mechanics wise; nothing in the game barring doctoring takes that long. 5 aps to shoot is fine, reminscent of a burst fire, and approx. 6 apps to reload because its not technically double the amound of time necessary to reload a single weapon because it takes much more skill to reload with something else in your hand even if it is something small enough that you can grab the clip as well. Further into two gun reality is things like the "Bozar" are TWO handed weapons and if someone other than maybe a mutant could wield two of those my name would be Charles Schultz. THough the concept of more aps other than 2 for a reload does raise an interesting point, difficulty of reloading a weapon. Why is it takes the same amount of time to pop in a clip in an automatic as it does to reload your light support weapon? One uses a belt the other a clip. No science necessary to see one takes longer than the other.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-02 AT 04:35PM (GMT)[p]>Reloading
>is possible atleast for conventional
>semi-automatic pistols because of the
>clip drop. You push
>the button, clip drops out,
>you thumb a clip in
>your opposite hand and pop
>it into the gun in
>the other hand. 12
>aps makes absolutely no sense
>game mechanics wise; nothing in
>the game barring doctoring takes
>that long.

Okay...

Sure, you can can use your thumbs to dump the clips. That's no big deal. However, you're going to have to put one of those guns away to load the other one. THAT'S why it'd take so long.

Even six APs is too short, because it only takes two APs to reload one gun, which is much easier. It also takes 4 AP to access the inventory, which you'd have to do to put a gun away.
 
No but beyond that it is possible to hold both a handgun and a clip in one hand. So you dont actually have to put the gun away to reload. It is possible to hold a gun in both hands and hold a clip in one to reload the gun in the other, which is why 6 aps is probably a good estimate time wise as to how long it would take. 3X as long as normal for reload is pretty harsh as it is combined with other proposed penalties for two gun shooting. I mean as it is your taking a damage hit, an accuracy hit, a critical hit loss, and a reload time hit. That sounds pretty harsh to make the reload time take more than a full round; Consider that with the right traits and perks a total of two rockets can be fired off, considering how long it takes to load rocket a full round for just two clips is harsh.
 
You are the one asking for more realism in the game, Right?

Have you ever tried holding two guns, for argument's sake let's say two 9mm Sig.
1- They are heavy handguns
2- They might not both be empty at the same time, so i would not take a chance on "aiming" a loaded gun toward me trying to reload another gun
3- If i had a choice between two 8 round handgun or a 40 round clip riffle, guess wich one i'd take in a combat situation?
4- if you are being shot at,you are not going to take the time to try to reloas two guns by balancing a clip between tow fingers
5- In real combat situation, you duck in the trench and then you reload.
6- It's Fallout not tomb raider or goldeneye
 
Dude I never said it would be all that realistic combat wise to use two pistols; I simply said it was possible. I never said anything about its effectiveness versus a rifle. The reality is a rifle is a two handed weapon, which if we are talking reality if you have a crippled either arm you couldnt use it, so lets try and keep the reality argument out of this one. You could wield two bozars at once in fallout2, I dont think anyone including myself cares about the reality in this situation. I simply said it was possible to do, and it is. *Side Note* I could have named a whole lot more unrealistic things about fallout but didnt because some things simply didnt/couldnt be addressed adequetely without damaging game play.
 
>You could
>wield two bozars at once
>in fallout2,

No, you couldn't. Those are "ready slots", to use a paraphrased term. You are only really equipping one at a time, the other could be considered to be slung over the shoulders or held at the side for convenience.

>*Side
>Note* I could have
>named a whole lot more
>unrealistic things about fallout but
>didnt because some things simply
>didnt/couldnt be addressed adequetely without
>damaging game play.

Like that huge run-on post you made, right?
 
>You are the one asking for
>more realism in the game,
>Right?
>
>Have you ever tried holding two
>guns, for argument's sake let's
>say two 9mm Sig.
>1- They are heavy handguns
>2- They might not both be
>empty at the same time,
>so i would not take
>a chance on "aiming" a
>loaded gun toward me trying
>to reload another gun
>3- If i had a choice
>between two 8 round handgun
>or a 40 round clip
>riffle, guess wich one i'd
>take in a combat situation?
>
>4- if you are being shot
>at,you are not going to
>take the time to try
>to reloas two guns by
>balancing a clip between tow
>fingers
>5- In real combat situation, you
>duck in the trench and
>then you reload.
>6- It's Fallout not tomb raider
>or goldeneye

1. So it would require more strength
2. Then don't point it at yourself
3. Of course, but what if you didn't have a rifle?
4. Then reload just one of them
5. Or hide behind a wall or something
6. So? If someone wants to play a Lara Croft type of character, then let them.

Anyway, I would like the player to be able to change the game rules if he doesn't like them.
 
Matrix Fallout Gear Solid

Solid One: I know jujitsu...

Mike the Computer Operator: Would you like to know more?
Soon the Solid One learns boxing, karate, kempo, aikido, tae kwon do, hapkido, kick-boxing... all at level 1.

Mikes Friend Tom: 8 hours straight, he's like a machine... Dude you need to stop doing that already.

Mike: Your right the Solid One doesn't need training, he can snipe people in the head, even though he hasn't even seen a gun before in his life, no need to train.

One day through a chance meeting, the Solid One meets up with the famed Terrorist "Dual-Wieldus."

Statistics for both characters:

Solid One: Lvl 24 str 7 per 8 ag 8 end 6 int 8 chr 5 lck 7(Xeta Scan) 200% in all skills Gifted, Finesse, Sniper, Sharp shooter, Bonus Ranged Attacks, Bonus HtH attacks, HtH Evade, Quick Pockets, Dodger, and Action Boy. Wearing Combat Armor.

"Dual-Wieldus": Lvl 24 str 5 per 6 end 5 ag 8 end 5 int 7 chr 5 lck 6(Xeta Scan) 200% in all skills Fast Shot, Kamaikaze, 3 Toughness, Gunslinger, Bonus ranged attacks, Bonus HtH Attacks, Lifegiver, and Action Boy.

Solid One: I know Kung Fu

"Dual-Wieldus": Show me...

BOOM...

"Dual-Wieldus": This is a sparring arena... where you will proceed to kick my ass. Now Hit me.

Owing to the fact that "Dual-Wieldus" has kamaikaze he manages to go first. He unleashes a strange burst technique from his twin desert eagles emptying both clips at the completely unarmed Solid One. Owing to the fact that dual wielding has a huge proposed accuracy penalty "Dual-Wieldus" misses with several shots. The Solid One manages to dodge all but two shots with a deft maneuver of leaning left. But due to the fact that the proposed penalty for duel wielding includes a huge penalty to damage and critical hit those two shots that hit did no damage.
Ah but with the aid of modern time lapse slow motion cinematography we can actually capture the true motions of the Solid One, for he moves so fast that the naked eye cannot follow. First he ducked down, then he dove left, then he jumped to the right, then he rolled forward, then he did a leaping back flip, afterwards performing a limbo-style lean backwards, and finally culminated in his slow move to the left. "Dual-Wieldus" decides to spend the proposed 12 APs necessary to reload his guns.

Solid One: What are you saying, that I can dodge bullets?

"Dual Wieldus: Apparently so.

The Solid One then takes his turn. He reaches into his inventory, searching past his assault rifle, shotgun, plasma gun, rocket launcher, and bozar to find his sniper rifle. He pulls out the sniper rifle and looks through the scope targeting the eye. He squeezes off a round, Critically hitting "Dual-Wieldus" bypassing his "armor." (Uh... his armor right, over his eyes) The Solid One then looks through his scope again and can now clearly see the billboard advertisement for Nuka Cola out the back of "Dual-Wieldus'" head. Now for any normal person this might pose a problem but owing to the fact that "Dual-Wieldus" has three ranks in toughness and Lifegiver its really not that big of a deal.
The Solid One watching "Dual-Wieldus" bend over to pick up his guns realizes that there is a pause in combat. The Solid One decides to spend 3 APs taking a piss and another 2 APs to quickly down a 40 oz. Gamma Gulp Beer. The Solid One had also surreptiously placed his rocket launcher in his alternate quick weapon slot. So the Solid One reaches into his jacket (Because if it was on his back with the rest of his inventory he'd actually have to spend APs to get it) and pulls out a previously unseen 5 1/2 foot 75mm rocket launcher and fires. "Dual-Wieldus" was critically hit for 25 damage, unfortunately his spine is now clearly visible... to people in Thailand or wherever the Hell in Southeast Asia that it actually landed.


Moral of this story is... The proposed penalties for dual wielding are excessive. And two We dont need no stinking dual wielding of guns any way. Its inferior to having a rocket launcher at the ready.
 
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