Possible ways of F2 modding

[Lich]

I just believe in non-stereotype inventions, here is few ideas about how change F2 game:

1. alternate prior quest
It require also alternate location begining. Before game start you select in dialog window who you wany to be and what you want to do. Already i tryed it and have somewhere small demo mod. So you may start in Arroyo as chosen one who search GECK or citizen in Vault city who need solve local problems (reactor, riders) Everything happen in the same game world, so only need is new dialogs and quest.

2. advancement conversations
In game exist many NPCs which you may ignore easily because they only shown some floating messages over head. They are anonymus persons, idea is to put them some personality. It could be made by simple universal dialog tree (for example three questions and answers) So you may still ignore that folks but they become more interaction, it could be fun because give some plot details.

3. game parody
The same world and situations but with crazy perspective. Already i tryed it in few comics (DQ1 , DQ2 , MH also i made parody of "Lost" movie so i got some experience) and i wonder wow it could look in game as mod? Everything its need is to put some new situations to game or just change dialog contents.

4. new items= bartertown
Idea is to build only one but greatest location F2 worldmap. Inspiration comes from Mad Max 3, bartertown. There will be some arena and many peoples which sell rare or new items. Already i tryed put every new items into different parts of game, but searching them make some dificulties. Best way is make one location where you may buy everything you want. Mostly this will be new items mod and area where you may buy it.

5. fallout 1 again
Action of F2 goes in future, idea is to make alternate F1. You are vault dweller which search water chip but in north instead of south. The same locations from F2 but more ruined (just remove few buildings and walls from every areas) Also put many different NPCs and more mutants around. Vault13 exist in F2, make it as starting location (its possible) It require made copy of old known Shady Sands (original vault15 also exist in F2 map files) Fallout1 have better "postnuclear atmosphere". Game may end when you settle in Arroyo.

6. new encounters= taxi driver
Special encounters are small and crazy so you dont need to make them very ambitious. Idea is to create many new weird maps and way to encounter them. In new reno you may find taxi driver who will shown you some extra secret locations around town. This kind of mod could be made easy and give lot of fun (its similar to game parody idea) Any big ambitious mod was never finished so its good way to go. Game may start in New Reno, so save time (its similar to alternate prior quest idea)

7. everything together
Every small idea about F2 moding have something good and bad. It is possible to connect every inventions into one mod and this one should be perfect. For example how join together previously ideas 1-6?

New Reno is big ruined city. Alternate F1 story, you are vault dweller who come here north from Vault13 to search water chip. Some parts of city (also undergrounds) is occupied by mutants. They are blocked by walls made from junk and few guards. There is some NPCs and everyone have some personality (short dialog) Reno is greatest trading city in wasteland, thats why you come here to search item you need. One man have water chip but it cost 10.000$ To get that money you must travell into every dirty places around town, find some valuables and sell it. Game end when you buy chip. Exit grid to worldmap will not exist, just few folks around tell you directions (they will teleport you there) For example most NPCs will have short dialog: "story about wasteland" and info about secret location where you may go. Its game about travelling, exploring and trading. To make it its need to ruin New Reno and make many (small not ambitious) areas where you may find some new items to sell it. Also some short dialogs to NPCs around.

This combination of different ideas is probably finall solution to make interesting mod.

 

[MIB88]

Some of those ideas sounded pretty interesting and I really want to see what you develop. Fallout Dominion was supposed to include Fallout 1 locations 80 years later. However, this is the one that jumped out at me:

4. new items= bartertown
Idea is to build only one but greatest location F2 worldmap. Inspiration comes from Mad Max 3, bartertown. There will be some arena and many peoples which sell rare or new items. Already i tryed put every new items into different parts of game, but searching them make some dificulties. Best way is make one location where you may buy everything you want. Mostly this will be new items mod and area where you may buy it.

I remember you did this in Black Steel. Honestly, this was the only location I did not like. To be more specific, I didn't like the Marketplace, I mean. The idea of Bartertown from Mad Max was fine. But in Black Steel you had not just rare items, but quest items (the part for the car comes to mind). Sure, it makes things easy, but I think it takes away from the game.

 

[lisac2k]

If I may add...

8. [Statement] Find the team of gifted persons for making it, or at least one person for each of the "small mods"

[Explanation] Impossible. Nobody seem to be willing to work, and those who start, give up easily. A handful of others working hard on their own mods, rather then being included into a new experiment.

[Statement] Personally, I like some of the ideas, the one with New Reno Taxi driver seems to be very refreshing one. Good job, Lich!

 

[Jacen]

[Statement] Personally, I like some of the ideas, the one with New Reno Taxi driver seems to be very refreshing one. Good job, Lich!

I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure I'm not... There already is a taxi driver in New Reno... that is if you use MIB88's mod. I haven't talked to him yet, so I don't know what he does, but he's there.

 

[Jesterka]

Interesting piece of text, Lich. Although I more or less don´t agree with a couple of points, idea 1, 4 and 7 sounds good to me. Even though #1 probably can´t be included with big projects like Mutants Rising, BGE etc which have their own uniform story and #4 could totally destroy game ballance, especially if the main designer is a megalomaniac. 8)

Anyway, I´m going to add some my ideas in a hour or two.

 

[MIB88]

[Statement] Personally, I like some of the ideas, the one with New Reno Taxi driver seems to be very refreshing one. Good job, Lich!

I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure I'm not... There already is a taxi driver in New Reno... that is if you use MIB88's mod. I haven't talked to him yet, so I don't know what he does, but he's there.

Yeah, it's in there...I took it from Lich's Black Steel mod.

 

[Sorrow]

4. new items= bartertown
Idea is to build only one but greatest location F2 worldmap. Inspiration comes from Mad Max 3, bartertown. There will be some arena and many peoples which sell rare or new items. Already i tryed put every new items into different parts of game, but searching them make some dificulties. Best way is make one location where you may buy everything you want. Mostly this will be new items mod and area where you may buy it.

I remember you did this in Black Steel. Honestly, this was the only location I did not like. To be more specific, I didn't like the Marketplace, I mean. The idea of Bartertown from Mad Max was fine. But in Black Steel you had not just rare items, but quest items (the part for the car comes to mind). Sure, it makes things easy, but I think it takes away from the game.

I didn't like it too. It was overpowered and not very realistic.

 

[Lich]

Bartertown was mostly invented to put everything new into one location, so you dont need search it trough game. That kind of market should be prior area of mod. Place where you take new quests, guns and other stuff, everything new in game meet here. So here may be taxi driver which shown you new locations around. Peoples who give you alternate big quests. Also here may meet different mods (parts from any other mods for example monk which direct you to abbey mod location) Area could be named "Fallout Market"

This idea is my favourite already, build one location where throw every mod inventions. Place full of weird stuff like typical marketplace.

 

[Nology5890]

Perhaps after you find such items in the rest of the game, they can start being sold at this 'Fallout Market'?

 

[Brother None]

This idea is my favourite already, build one location where throw every mod inventions. Place full of weird stuff like typical marketplace.

How is this a good idea, exactly? Remove all facets of exploration, discovery as well as any effort expected on the player's part and just cushion all the new stuff into one illogical locations?

Seriously.

Why?

 

[Lich]

I think about it long and it seem to be best idea for mod because in this concept every mod inventions may work together. Player will start in area which look like something betwen marketplace and junkyard. Better stuff to buy will be available depend on your experience (or money amount) so in begining you may get only melee weapons. NPCs around will give you some quests where you may earn exp and golden dust (alternate money) to buy things. Mostly this will be standard area where get new adventures (small mods connected by marketplace) Typical quest will look like "toxic caves", i mean go to some new location and do something there. Probably i will not build brand new locations but cut some fragments from big towns and made from them small areas, ofcourse modify its contents so they will look different. For example cut gas station from navarro and make from it small quest.

 

[Lich]

ok it was not clever, better think twice before do anything or waste time

Two major ways of moding:
1. Quick and stupid Nobody wants play mod which seem to be worst from original game, so do anything but quick its wrong way
2. Ambitious but slowly Build ambitious project is risky, because it may be never finished..

I search possibility to build mod fast, saving quality of original Fallout. Here is options:

Step A. It must be some new area, because new map give most visible "changes"
-Build new town require fill it with many details like story, dialogs, quests, new items or scenery. It will go slow (bad idea)
-Extend exist towns by build new part of it. Its better: dont need build brand new story or town location, just some new dialogs and few quests
-New SPECIAL encounter: probably best idea, because original encounters from game dont have super quality and there was not quests. Its only kind of area which can be build quick and save original game quality Anyway these areas are crazy & funny many peoples like them, also funny details "eastern eggs" in game

Step B So i found best way to build mod is add new encounters. Now how encounter them? Walking on worldmap in hope of encounter randomly mod part is not clever, so it MUST be some other way to visit them:

-Taxi driver: in some town you meet folk which shown you new secret areas around town. Its cool idea because taxi is something new in game. But you must pay him and collect money take some time. It cant be your friend which give you something for free because you are outsider which spend most life in small village, so you dont known any outside peoples. Other option is to make some quest and in thanx he will shown some new areas (for example deliver him fuel to car) But it also take some time before you visit this area.

-Traper map: You found dead traper and some geckos or radscorpion around. He got in inventory map of secret locations he found during his travells. Item can open dialog menu, so visit locations by using map is probably most easy option. Especially because you can travell from one area to other and dont need return every time to some HQ. For example taxi driver olways stand in one town or "teleport" with his car to many places (but its dificultu and eat long time to make it) "Interaction Map" is simple item which you olways can have in backpack and use it anytime, best option!

Step C Where find this man? He can be inside Arroyo in traping grounds (as experienced traveller he known many secret places, also Arroyo!) Its most quick way to get this map item and probably best. This traveller may have also diary item where he describle how and why he get into village. Another option is to put his body into Temple in Arroyo. This man was not traper but.. treasure hunter! So reason why he sneak into village, he search vault dweller. Why? because VD was rich man, he earn many stuff during his adventures. Temple of trails is boring place, lets change it- now it will be most favourite one. Add some new traps and riddles to this area, build some labirynth. Finally you will find suit and somewhere around bones of treasure hunter and his map or.. there will be no traveller or treasure hunter, this map will belong to vault dweller himself!

Step D Temple of trails may be full of traps and riddles or just ancestors grave, some kind of crypt. There will be many bones and rats, some dark frighting place. In one chamber will lay VD remains, his suit and his other items like "VD map" and diary, this could be holodisc. VD during his travells visit many areas around, following map you may encounter them. This will be key to new weird locations.

Reasuming:
-change temple concept
-make VD Map item
-many new encounters

 

[lynceus]

Lich, I didn't quite get your last post.

You suggest to have a interactive item i.e. Vault Dweller's map in the beginning of the game (in the temple of trials)

-How about the balance of the game, in the beginning you are exposed to many new encounters/locations at once? (come to this later)

-Are there going to be real locations (green circle) in the world map? Or you are teleported all the time

-Wouldn't it be good to reveal the new encounters one by one or only reveal some clue in the VD map/diary and you can complete the puzzle later (fulfill other conditions, pay money or whatever). It would be illogical if you can only visit old or historical locations recorded by VD


"Bartertown was mostly invented to put everything new into one location, so you don't need search it trough game. That kind of market should be prior area of mod. Place where you take new quests, guns and other stuff, everything new in game meet here. "


It is all about how to put new stuff in the old FO2 shell simply, efficiently and intriguingly. I really like the idea of bartertown, a place filled with exotic items, unlimited (random generated) tasks and new encounters. There are some simple examples:

traders/trappers/drug dealers/caravan master,
-new items
-carrier and caravan tasks (You have the opportunity to be the caravan master in the random encounters)
-cleaning stable or some easy money

Bandits/bounty hunters,
-find and kill somebody
-get debt (item, money) from somebody, protection money collect
-ambush or convoy missions
-treasure or secret stash map
-kidnap/liberate somebody
-new locations and encounters

slavers/rangers,
-capture(liberate) slave for mines/enclave tests/VC servants, VC living organ extractions/gladiator/cage fighter
-capture(liberate) sex slave for brothels

scavengers/collectors,
-new exotic items
-secret rumored vault map, pre-war, hi-tec, locations
-new locations and encounters

gunsmith/blacksmith/mechanics
-new vehicle
-new weapons
-new armours

taxi driver
-new locations and encounters

etc.


Of course the bad side of it is the impact toward the game balance, you will be too strong too powerful in the beginning of the game, but what the heck should we care when we went through 10 times with the original game. We just want to try out new stuffs, mod, critters and encounters which should be easily accessed in the beginning of the game (the bartertown is a perfect place) until there is a good place for them to be integrated with the original story line.

For the fallout 1 part, when the strategy map which including the original FO1 locations (southern California region) has been incorporated in the FO2, It is free for the modders to add new FO2 story to the old FO1 location or vice versa.

 

[Lich]

Thanx for advice

Ofcourse major problem of that idea is balance. Most importand thing in RPGs is character developement (from zero to hero) But you may worry about it when you play entire new game. For short mod it could work. I mean quickly visit new area, check new stuff, play for 1-3 hours and exit. In BSM i put many new stuff into different areas, but probably most players find 30% of them during game. So this idea was to put "everything new" into one place and market place (or bartertown) was perfect for it. Puting every mod inventions into one place will make intense feeling of something new in game.

Map item was invented to quickly find it and quickly teleport into new area, so player dont waste time (because he see most parts of game many times and they become little boring) It was invented to quickly enter to something new in game.

When i would build total conversion, brand new game on F2 engine then i could think about balance stuff, but small mod have different philosophy. I remember when play Abbey mod, i just install it, visit new location, wonder around and delete it. Playing small mods is quick, just to check news.