Problems with FO3 summed up with old quote

[Pope Viper]

Hmmm, I guess my group was quite a bit different, we enjoyed the tales.

What exactly were you doing if there was no story, and what was the motivation? There had to be SOMETHING in terms of background.

 

[Sander]

There is detail and "building" There are numerous journal entries, computer terminals, audio logs, etc.. placed in the world as well... to build the story. You have to go find them though. Look around, investigate.

I've commented on this time and again, and I've explored every location I found fully, and I explored a lot of them. The amount of journal entries and computer terminals that actually say anything is abysmally small.
There was great potential in a lot of locations that they did absolutely nothing with.

Bethesda offices - nothing. Raider forts - nothing. Fort Constantine - nothing. Deathclaw sanctuary - nothing. All of the Vaults - very, very minimal information, usually just one or two small computer entries. 90% of the other locations across the wasteland, again: nothing but dungeon crawls.

Compare to Fallout 2's Sierra Army Depot or Fallout's The Glow. These locations weren't nearly as prevalent as they were in Fallout 3, but they left you feeling much more like you discovered a hidden location with a real history to it. The fact that all of Fallout 3's locations are, with 2 exceptions (Vault 112 and Vault 101) are completely delapidated, thus failing to give the 2 worlds atmosphere (as VDweller put it) that Fallout had doesn't help either.

 

[Hroesvelgr]

There is detail and "building" There are numerous journal entries, computer terminals, audio logs, etc.. placed in the world as well... to build the story. You have to go find them though. Look around, investigate.

I agree that there is a lot of detail and some good fluff to be discovered, but in my opinion the story is best told by the world and its actors rather than in random bits of data that have no interactive properties. My problem is that you just can't really leave your mark on this game... the only thing you can change about the world is wrought by exterminating people, not influencing how things develop.

 

[Pope Viper]

The "random bits of data" could have had interactive properties if BS had taken the time and effort to fully think it out and pay attention to the little details.

 

[Rev. Layle]

Hmmm, I guess my group was quite a bit different, we enjoyed the tales.

What exactly were you doing if there was no story, and what was the motivation? There had to be SOMETHING in terms of background.

Well, actually oddly enough - usually it was in between story bits. A prime example was playing a game called AfterMath (heh) after we finished a major story arc from the last 3-4 months of playing we had set out for another city. And spent about 5-6 gaming session just travelling an running into all sorts of random encounters.

The GM would think up 2-3 threatening/non-threatening encounters in his head. He would roll to determine if anything would happen or not, and if it did, which of the 2-3 ideas would happen - and basically we all ad-libbed ever little thing we came across.. nothing had a set outcome or point as so much as just neat things that happened. Kind like hitting random/special encounters a bunch of times going across the F1/2 map.

This GM was a master of ad-libbing (well, to me he was)... no matter how much you derailed him, he always had a way to deal with the situation without you wanting to throw books or dice at him

So yeah we had huge story moments, and good size "fucking around" moments, in-between..

However, reminiscing on this, I guess, did show that we generally did have more STORY sessions, than non-story. However,we had just as fun with the non story portions of just running into things and playing out a one-session situation.

Also, it provided a way to continue having play sessions while he was still finishing his next story arc... which he would get painfully detailed with.

 

[chaosapiant]

The "random bits of data" could have had interactive properties if BS had taken the time and effort to fully think it out and pay attention to the little details.

I think that is a valid complaint. However, due to the sheer size of the game, it hardly amounts to laziness on Beth's part.

For me, the best parts of Fallout's story are the things that "aren't" said. Seeing bloody hand prints on glass and a corpse inside a room says a lot more than "dear mom, a bomb hit me and that's why i'm dead."

Also, Fallout 3 has at least as many in depth locations as both of the first Fallouts combined. For sure, their are some missed opportunities, but all games have that.

 

[Ihniwid]

The "random bits of data" could have had interactive properties if BS had taken the time and effort to fully think it out and pay attention to the little details.

How do you mean?

Comparing a interactive p2p game and a single player rpg seems a bit...farfetched?

Sander, I agree with the Vaults, but you could argue maybe that DC has had different experiences than the west coast and the vaults havent gone the way they have there... You really didnt ffind a lot of notes and such? I thought there was quite a bit...hmm... maybe I read slow or something... seemed like a lot.

 

[Sander]

I think that is a valid complaint. However, due to the sheer size of the game, it hardly amounts to laziness on Beth's part.

For me, the best parts of Fallout's story are the things that "aren't" said. Seeing bloody hand prints on glass and a corpse inside a room says a lot more than "dear mom, a bomb hit me and that's why i'm dead."

Also, Fallout 3 has at least as many in depth locations as both of the first Fallouts combined. For sure, their are some missed opportunities, but all games have that.

Ehm, Fallout 3 has no location with the depth of the Glow or the Sierra Army Depot at all.

 

[Pope Viper]

Well, for me, in video games, I much prefer quality over quantity.

And yes, in my opinion, it is laziness on BS's part. They could have spent more money on adding to the team to code these type of interactions, instead of marketing.

What areas did you find indepth?

 

[Rev. Layle]

I would argue that Sierra Army Depot has a few neat things in it, but, mainly a place to nick a bunch of XP and gear

I will totally agree about the Glow, however... that place still kinda creeps me out every time I play and I have this irrational fear that THIS will be the time my Rad-X only lasts half as long

 

[Roflcore]

Vault 106 is a perfect example. The place looks all the same, I checked it three times and I found exactly two notes from the vault overseer about gas tests. And thats it. Yeah, great story. Did I miss something? If so, I would be really pissed because I spent already way too much time searching in this "it all looks the same" vaultdungeon.

 

[Sander]

I would argue that Sierra Army Depot has a few neat things in it, but, mainly a place to nick a bunch of XP and gear

I will totally agree about the Glow, however... that place still kinda creeps me out every time I play and I have this irrational fear that THIS will be the time my Rad-X only lasts half as long

The Sierra Army Depot has a cryo-frozen marine in storage, a somewhat malfunctioning AI you can take with you as a companion, several computers with additional information and a bunch of holodiscs with information about the war. If that qualifies as a few neat thing, then Fallout 3's exploration locations have absolutely nothing in them.

Vault 106 is a perfect example. The place looks all the same, I checked it three times and I found exactly two notes from the vault overseer about gas tests. And thats it. Yeah, great story. Did I miss something? If so, I would be really pissed because I spent already way too much time searching in this "it all looks the same" vaultdungeon.

Exactly my point.

 

[Zex]

Shouldn't an RPG focus more on a story rather than world building, especially if you're going to tout the game as an RPG?

I think it depends on a person's preference, really. I've read some forumers on the official boards RPing as a farmer, or a treasure hunter, or even a fisherman in Morrowind. It's probably this widespread interest in simply exploring the gameworld and building your own narrative that led to many interesting mods for MW, most of which were never made for OB.

I'm not defending Beth or anything. I really hated OB because it contradicted its own lore and was completely shallow. But I think you can't approach Beth's RPGs in the conventional manners of story or plot because Beth doesn't seem to do things the conventional way.

 

[Pope Viper]

I'm not defending Beth or anything. I really hated OB because it completed contradicted its own lore and was completely shallow. But I think you can't approach Beth's RPGs in the conventional manners of story or plot because Beth doesn't seem to do things the conventional way.

I'll agreed with you 100% on that, as I'm sure a lot of people on NMA.

 

[Ihniwid]

Hell I disagree with a bunch of NMA guys on this topic but I will agree with that too!

We found some sort of ground here!

 

[the lone deathclaw]

Yeah i agree with that but i mean the Sierra Army Depot was even more than that they had the viruses ala the stand, and the history of the base and several phases, including one of the most wft but enjoyable moments in Fallout 2, the way the world ended in terms of the specifics and such great little responses from the press and so forth, that was a gem that was very deep, the glow as well. I'm sorry but the museum of Technology or well lets just be honest yes.... the laziness of BS because i can tell you why they only left the Lincoln wing of the Museum of History open, because they were like hmm this would be a pain in the ass to have all of these exhibits such as the resource war... Dev 1 to Dev 2: hmm lets just do the downtown DC trick. Dev 2: Rubble as far as the eye can see so this makes the game take longer and or we can railroad them. Dev 1: Brillant!

My point is the museums could have been really amazing i mean you want a place chaulk full of history and lore you have Washington fing DC, no ability to go in the white house no stone mason jokes, I still wanted some Lincoln with other man graffettie, i mean you take the mecca of the United States and they made it boring, how is that even possible. One thing I did heavily enjoy was how they had already built a memorial to the battle of Anchorage.....while the war was still happening and that looked pretty decent, it was very much like the Vietnam memorial Redux (the one with several soldiers). To Falloutize something the Master is in the details, failure to adhere to the lore and to make it something special not just random city here is vanilla. BS had places that had touches of ingenuity and could show real promise and then they stopped short, like give me that damn book the kid's dad sought after and he did, maybe it's something very interesting maybe it's just a skinrag, the thing is it would give closure other than i killed another "ghoul"

All I have left now is playing the game over in childmode fulfilling the capacity that is implicit in children, being the cruelest thing in the world.

 

[nuanil]

I have to assume that everyoen here that thouroughly detests FO3, wouldn't have enjoyed Elite or any of the free roaming games in teh image of Elite in the slightest either, like the original X:BTF, Privateer series or any others where it wasn't the story that mattered as much as the experiences outside the story.

 

[the lone deathclaw]

Well I cannot speak for everyone but I would say that is where you are wrong in regards to me, I do not detest Fallout 3 I have grown to enjoy it more but it's piece of bitumenous coal and has not been turned into a diamond, polished or unpolished. It's just a different game and I'd be the first to admit cases in Fallout 1 and 2 where they just did not add something but at least don't just call us haters. If you don't think the laziness point is valid then explain why and give reasons. As for your idea of it as a journey Fallout 3 to me suffers from all of BS's games I've played, it's a fun time and yes they have lore but I don't feel like I am the character I don't get swept in maybe you can say it's because of the FPS view but it just seems the character is generic.

As for experiences outside of the stories that's what the Army Depot was it was a very optional side quest and you could play the game several times and never even find out about it because you lacked i think the science skill to know about the poisoning. There are no secrets in the sandbox, and i'm sorry but a wasteland that was as heavily populated as DC will always have secrets and it will not all be populated by crab people or feral ghouls. In short I felt the experience as you put it was missing in Fallout 3, I felt the experience more in a much more linear game FO:BOS or POS depending on who is saying it.

 

[Per]

I have to assume that everyoen here that thouroughly detests FO3, wouldn't have enjoyed Elite

I played Elite quite a lot. I even kept records of what planets I had been to. One day I realized how utterly pointless it all was and just stopped.

I haven't played Fallout 3. You say it has Elite-like qualities?