Puuk talks about MMORPGs

Odin

Odin

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Damien 'Puuk' Foletto (former Fo3 dev) took some time to write an article about MMORPGs, evidently he's a fan of MMORPGs. And decided to write a small piece for Winterwind, here's a snibblet:<blockquote>So, what do we have here, besides a lot of belly-aching and wishful thinking? Well, we have one fan's opinion on what they would like to see in the MMORPG genre. Everything I put in my wish list can be done and, in my opinion, should be done. The core reason a lot of people play MMORPG's is to get involved in a world with other players and do things they could never do in real life - fun things; adventurous things; things that would either get a person arrested, mauled, shot, and/or killed in real life. But the main reason is to have fun. I think some MMORPG developers forget the fun aspect and just stick to formulas, thinking that's the way it's always been, why muck with it. Step back from the formula, I say! </blockquote>It's an interesting read.
Link: Puuk talks about MMORPGs
 
I must dissent.

Puuk's main problem with MMORPG seems to be that they're not player-centric enough. However, in my view, the lack of that special feeling in MMORPGs is inherent of the genre.

Think about it, you have enormous groups of people, all pumping up their characters and buffing themselves up to be stronger than everyone else, or just getting by the best they can. Reminds you of something? Yeh, real life. And sadly, like in real life, the chance to feel "special" or a "hero" is rare.

In fact, the only solution Puuk seems to offer to this problem is creating a number of quest unique to the player, basically cutting him of from the rest of the online world, much like table-top RPGs. This, however, is not MMORPG, this is co-operative online multiplayer.

*sighs*

Ugh, MMORPGs. I'm afraid you're always going to have to deal with the fact that your character is not a hero, and he can't be fighting for a unique goal because if it is truely a unique goal, him finishing it would cut it off for all the rest of the realm, basically halting the general advancement, i.e. putting logical limits on the game (the world is only so big, eh?), but logic's not what we want.

Never could enjoy MMORPGs, must be all the "lewl ur only lvl 21 noob"-talk
 
I like MMORPGs, I like them a great deal. I've played EQ, DAoC, SWG (yuck), and now City of Heroes.

They remind me of the Friday nights at The War House (a game store where I spent many a year) playing long, highly episodic campaigns.

What I really like about them, is, for the most part, they are free from much of the ugliness of Paper & Pencil games have. Mainly, the whining for special rules, rule interpretations, clarifications, solo adventures, and, most of all, there is no spoon-feeding. Everybody plays by the same rules regardless of who you are. The computer is uncaring who your are, and no amount of wheedling will change that.

In a Paper & Pencil campaign, if somebody wants to play a class/profession that is diametrically opposed to you, or is a jerk, you realistically have only two options - quit or put up with it.

In a MMORPG, the world is mighty big place. If you don't want to adventure with somebody, for what ever reasons - personal or role playing, you don't' have to.

Don't get me wrong, I like the single person games, I've helped create them, but I see nothing wrong with MMORPGs either.

I could go on and on, and I doubt I will change any minds. There are those that like MMORPGa and those that hate them. I'm a member of the former.
 
Down The Wabbit Hole

Down The Wabbit Hole

... toon ...
Click to expand...

Maybe "Rodger Rabbit"" popularized the abbreviated use of 'cartoon' as "toon" in my time continuum. Hearing kid's call each other "toons" was one of those few moments in my personal history when I knew I was riding the wave of media/cultural syntax ahead of the foaming break. Totally tubular .... Still, riding the data nodes of this post Gibson (whether your 's is Mel or William) this post Gibson technical-logical age is more like riding the shore break, in hotdog abandon, in sand slamming wipe-out, rather than the majestic posturing if the break is out side the jetty.

... toon ...
Click to expand...

Clearly a resonance node that extends to the participants of mmorpg's.
Voluntary participants in a pay-to-play fantasy world. Chasing that dream of adventure down the rabbit hole like Alice, or Elmer Fudd.

Whether it's the land of "The White Rabbit", Roger Rabbit / Buggs Bunny, Sword And Sorcery, or the Neo dark age of cyber punk and post apoc', it's an alternate reality sand box for ""kid's"" to play.


Riding the resonance nodes to FUN and Profit.

The corporate mass marketing model of this 'sand box' appears to have a short shelf life, and an even shorter suspension of (dis)belief that would lock in a repeat business from the jaded target demographic.

In the light of my disfunctional paragraph structure, Puuk's essay has the hallmark of a prepared piece, and I guess that it predates the John Deiley profile on NMA. Maybe Puuk fills in some of the blank spaces that Deiley did not know were there when he prodded the mmorpg Node. Don't know if they are like minded to that degree.
They do seem to have shared a positive experience with group gaming, in Dungeon Mastering, and have 'relived' some same socialized nirvanas in brief heady highs, that may be more akin to logarithmic cocaine peaks than a steady continuum of sine waves at 60 cycles.

Don't matter if "The White Rabbit" is now a "White Line". Don't matter if the author is Lewis Carroll or Grace Slick. The pair wish to share their "peak" experience in good ol' Scout fashion. They are looking for a "designer" vehicle to take us all there, .. and will allow us to wake up in the morning ready for work and have enough change left over to fill the gas tank for a week.

They proselytize their witnessing of a "great MMORPG on the hill", but I don't see them covering our eyes with marketing misdirections, as Apostles of Sony might like them to. We could all say ""thanks for sharing"" and move on to the next topic. ""Could"", I can't say "should" because we would all miss Exitium's parodies' of a day in a life of a FOOL ...

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4534
Killian: Come here guys. The mobs respawn quickly here.
Spazmo: Sweet. Here they come
LlamaGod: Need buffs!
*Exitium casts Alacrity, Morale, Brotherhood Shield
Killian: My morale is better than yours. Stop casting morale.
*Killian casts Morale MK3
*Exitium casts Morale
Killian: OMFG stop casting it, I said mine's better. Save your energy.
*Killian casts Morale MK3

- robots start spawning, all 10 at once - ......
Click to expand...


Puuk's peice has the glow of a proposal lobbying to move "the sand box" out side of the -- box -- of conventional corporate and target market expectations. He wants the "fun factor" to last longer than it takes to travel from base 'a' to personal quest 'b'.

And FOOL fans he hasn't solved the dilemma of time and space ---









--- traveling ---









--- even in a fantasy setting, other than to make it "free" and "fast" to all levels

So just 'pretend' the hike of 3 days, game time, occurred, with running battles with higher level "monsters", to fetch the next 'package' in a UPS Quest. Imaginary physics in an imaginary world, with your imaginary friends, why?, so we can get on to this edition of ""The Hero's Saga"".
Yes my SPECIAL children, please to chorus now! ""ARE WE ... there yet?"".

Let me so bold as to suggest, that these veteran's of P'N'P and Dungeon Mastering advocate a de-centralized On Line experience
where small groups, small troops of scouts band together to explore a game world.

A collection of co-op multiplayer mavens in a, ....
a regionalized franchize of player patrols rallying to their TROOP SERVER, with REAL LIFE AI(TM) fleshing out the 'robots', under the kind and patient campaign hat hooded eyes of a Gandalf in kaki.

This de-centralization might allow a more immediate 'hands on' guidance from, the "Loremaster". The "Scoutmaster", a shepard, herds the sheep along the story's path to the next green clearing.
Where there's enough "fun" for all to "share".

A guided tour for a tour de force on ""The Hero's Journey"".

Riding the story "line" to the next level, before the 'kids'" chorus, ""ARE WE THERE YET?"".




4too
 
Hrm, I agree with him in some aspects while others I must disagree.

First, his comments seemed contradictory. The part Odin highlighted mentions that people play to interact with others and build a community. I agree with that. But then elsewhere he speaks of the need for specific player quests and private dungeons. These seem to counter the idea of a community as you go off on your own.

Where I find him most accurate is his criticism of the basic gameplay. MMORPGs are basically diablo 2's. Your objectives are to level up, to get phat lewt, and to be better than everyone else. If a compelling story could be introduced, it really would make the games a lot more attractive.
 
Unfortunately, with having a story, you require a few essential parts. Namely, actors. Integrating the players into a story gets into nothing but favoritism.

About the best you could do for story is something akin to Asheron's Call. However, in case of the Thistledown Defense, it proved that your actions mean jack shit in the game, ultimately. It was good story, but if that's the pinnacle of feasable storytelling in a MMOG, then it's safe to say that if you've played one, you've played them all with some differences in game mechanics. It's all pretty much the same brand of clannie drama, although some games are crafted better than others.

Then again..you could have l33t6utt be the saviour to all. Or (Insert unimaginative Season/Forest Noun name here). Or have a 3,000 page bitchfest at IGN about how TurtleFood snaked in and took the story spot from Diabloboy13.

Another alternative, and MMOG companies are often too lazy to do this anymore since UO, is to have people that would organize events and storyline on each server, and make each unique. UO was great in that regard, most of the time. It still ran into the politics of favorites and often prepubescant clannie drama.
 
The more I think about it, you're right Roshambo. The best I can think of myself is to create a war that goes on with evolving battle lines but that isn't much of a story. I guess the only thing for an MMORPG is the wonderful farming of items and hunting. I have yet to play one myself so I can't say I know the finer arts of the games.
 
I reckon MMORPG's would be alright if you could get rid of other players, with their either unpronouncable names, or things like DogFan or ChumbleTree. I hate the fact that most MMORPG's are such watered down games, and are basically levelling up simulators, where 12 year olds play for 15 hours a day, become really good then just kill new players, all the time going "lol! N00b!"
 
with their either unpronouncable names, or things like DogFan or ChumbleTree.
Click to expand...

I recall some specific rules being made for some online mods or MMOGs where 'out-of-character' names were forbidden, ie. Cl0uDStrryf33_sexy77 and similar names were out. I once played in a Neverwinter Nights server where the samew rule applied, and the usage of names like Drizzt D'Ourden were also forbidden.
 
Yes, but NWN isn't a real MMORPG. NWN is played on a much smaller basis, and its servers are run by people playing playing the game. Which means that you get the occasional decent server to roleplay on, but those don't last long, since there are always lametards coming on. The only way to battle this was to password the server and have a roleplay test/initation rite before allowing entrance.
And although that is a good system, you still have people on there 24/7, and those people usually develop inter-character relations and interesting things, but if you're not one of them, it's very hard to get into serious roleplaying if you come in later.
 
After getting hooked on a MMORPG (SWG) last year I have to admit I like them. Yes MMORPG are about leveling and getting cool items but so was many of the stand alone CRPG's I've played. With the D&D (Bioware) games I always had a goal of reaching a higher level so I could cast a better spell or finding some cool weapon for my fighter to use. Even in the mighty Fallout gaining levels was important as that meant more hit points and cooler perks. Even loot was an issue as I always tried to get better weapons and armor. Not much different then a MMORPG...

Without a doubt though, all MMORPG's fall flat on their faces with the story aspect. As was said above it is inherent to the type of gamestyle. In SWG, the developers ran a 'monthy' story that you were supposed to partake in, and depending on how many completed it for either the Empire or the Rebellioin, the winning side would see some game changing benefits. Unfortunately it turned out to be more of a series of fetch/destroy missions that had no effect on your character or gameplay. I honestly don't think it is possible for MMORPG to have the same kinds of deep RP as a single player game.

The positives of MMORPG's are interaction with other players, player inspired RP, and variety. I really like the variety aspect of the game. One night I might be hunting rebel player for the emperor, the next I may go do quests or hunt loot. The next I might be RP'ing in a cantina or out on the battlefield. All in the same game world with the same rules set.

In the end MMORPG's do have a way's to go to be the perfect gaming experience, but I also believe you get out of them what you put into them.
 
First off, about name regulations, that is only really able to be enforced in small situations. When you have a game like Lineage II or SWG, then the names will be some of the most uncreative shit by far. Face it, most of the kids who play the games aren't too creative upstairs and often think that if you name your character with some stupid derivative, then you must be "cool".

If you were going to police them, where the hell would you start? You could also get into the DAoC practice of changing the name of just about everyone reported, even if they weren't breaking the guidelines. Even in DAoC on an RP server, I've seen a Drizzzt Do'Urden that never got a rename for months.

Hex. if you thought SWG was bad in terms of how stupid and juvenile some of the players can be, check out Lineage II. Then think about the teenaged Koreans added into the mix, taking the class of the game down much lower. It's a wonder how Exitium can stand it.

As for SWG, the "monthly story" is pretty much shit. They could have at least have tried to rip off Turbine's desgin method with the monthly updates, but instead it turns out to be as lame as you mention it. A couple of extra critters, items, and very few world-affecting items. Their attempts to actually add some in were buggy, flawed as hell, and is generally par for that dev house.
 
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