Reagen Dying

[John Uskglass]

PARIS (Reuters) - Former U.S. President Ronald Reagan's health is deteriorating and he could only have weeks to live, a U.S. source close to the situation said on Saturday. I was told it could be soon -- it could be weeks, it could be months," the U.S. source said of Reagan, adding he had long suffered from the brain-wasting disease Alzheimer's disease and his condition had worsened in the past week.

That's the worst imagineable death. He was'nt able to go to 9/11 memorial servicies because of how bad alzheimers was, and has not recognized anyone in his family for years. Probably even forgot that his daughter died.

 

[Big T]

Poor bastard, degenerative diseases truly are the worst way to go.

 

[Wooz]

Poor bastard.

On the other hand, no, serves him right.

 

[Big T]

On the other hand, no, serves him right.

Not really, very few people deserve that.

 

[John Uskglass]

On the other hand, no, serves him right.

He was instemental in the collapse of the most genocidal, repressive, longest-lasting nation in history.

He did some cookey stuff (mostly because of his wife), but this is, IMHO, the worst way to die.

 

[Sander]

On the other hand, no, serves him right.

He was instemental in the collapse of the most genocidal, repressive, longest-lasting nation in history.

Must I constantly point out that that is an opinion or will you just stick by it and proclaim it as afact for ever and ever? Do you think it really would have happened without Gorbatchev (and Jeltsin)?


That said, Alzheimer's is quite bad. Or at least, the transition period where you know that you have Alzheimer's is really bad. Once the disease has progressed to the point where you don't know, it's not so bad anymore. Still, it's really horrible.

 

[Wooz]

Oh well, Stalin did some great things for the USSR apart killing millions of people, too. That doesn't mean he's not a murderous bastard... IIRC he became totally nuts the last years of his life, before living in total isolation and paranoia. Serves him right, too.

Don't know if it's the worst way to die. I think the de-humanization process and turning a human being into a thing (replacing names numbers, brainwash, torture, living in terror), in other words, what the Nazis, the Soviets, and the Khmer Rouge did in their camps, is much more horrible to my eyes.

 

[Montez]

Not to be too callous, but that's not even close to the worst way to die. It's very upsetting for the people around him, but it's doubtful that he's feeling much pain or is even concious of what's happening to him.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he deserves it, but frankly he was an asshole and among other things lied constantly, made life for the poor much much worse, and kept the country in a paranoid state for 8 years. I could think of worse things to happen to him. And CCR, I think your unduly high opinion of him is kind of negated by the fact that you weren't even alive when he was president, imho. It's all well and good to read all the crap written about him, which is almost to a word completely biased in one direction or the other, but anyone with common sense knows that the country was a much better place after he left office, even with Bush, Clinton and Bush jr. in the president's seat.

 

[Murdoch]

-snip- ...but anyone with common sense knows that the country was a much better place after he left office, even with Bush, Clinton and Bush jr. in the president's seat.

Well, certainly Bush Sr and Clinton, but Bush Jr? That's pushing it a little.

 

[Malky]

Reagan wasn't necessarily a *bad* man...he just didn't make the right choices, per se. You can't blame anyone for believing in whatever they believe, y'know.

I've got a little experience with Alzheimer's. It's in my family. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

 

[welsh]

Reagan wasn't necessarily a *bad* man...he just didn't make the right choices, per se. You can't blame anyone for believing in whatever they believe, y'know.

Sure you can. People aren't born with beliefs but acquire them, learn them. There is an aspect of choice and then there is the matter of testing one's beliefs.

I've got a little experience with Alzheimer's. It's in my family. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.[/quote]

No doubt, but it seems Ronnie was suffering for a long time.

Congress- "Did you know about the arms for hostages"

Ronnie- "Ahhh... What.... I forgot."

Congress- "Did you know that Ollie North was selling guns to the Contras, the former national guard under Samosa?"

Ronnie- "really, well.... I forgot.. "

COngress- "Were you negotiating with the hostage takers despite the US commitment to 'no negotiation with terrorists?'"

ROnnie- "Well, let's see... I forgot...."

etc.

You can't really give him credit for ending the Cold War because the Soviets were falling fast by then. You can't even give him credit for the US build up in defense because that was begun under Carter. You can give him credit for the economic mess left behind for the next president Bush sr, that was finally cleaned up under Clinton and renewed under Bush jr.

 

[Wooz]

Welsh, you forgot the part about selling chemical weapons to Iraq.

 

[Malky]

Well, this is ironic.

He passed away a few minutes ago.

 

[override367]

actually our economy is in the toilet from sep 11 and bush


one or the other wouldn't have been so bad, it's the combination of the 2

 

[Sander]

actually our economy is in the toilet from sep 11 and bush

Why is there an "actually" in there. Actually signals that you do not agree with someone. Who the hell are you disagreeing with?

Irony indeed, Malky. Irony indeed.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

On the other hand, no, serves him right.

He was instemental in the collapse of the most genocidal, repressive, longest-lasting nation in history.

This is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. Oddly enough, similar description could just as easily be applied to a number of other nations (and USSR was not one nation, but a multinational federation), including USA.

Let's see which facts you got wrong, shall we:

1) genocidal

It's true that Stalin's regime practiced terrible genocide against its own people, but otherwise USSR could hardly be attributed as "most genocidal", especially considering that genocide was never a practice inherent to socialist ideology (unlike, for example, nazism). Besides, just about every world power in the history is guilty of a genocide or two, including democratic countries such as the USA (Ever heard of native Americans? Maybe you haven't, considering they were all but extinct!), so I don't see how USSR is any more or less genocidal than others.

2) repressive

USSR was a typical communist totalitarian dictatorship, and I don't see how it's more repressive than countless other dictatorships that existed in the history.

3) longest-lasting

WTF? USSR existed from 1917 to 1991. That's 74 years. How is that "longest-lasting"?

Even if your presumptions about USSR were correct, I don't see how Reagan was instrumental in the fall of USSR. Due to inefficient socialist economic model, collapse of the Soviet Union was only a matter of time, and Reagan had nothing to do with it. I'd go as far as to say that his deliberate impairments of Soviet-US relations and his initiating of yet another armaments race were very irresponsible, reckless and dangerous acts.

 

[Brother None]

(and USSR was not one nation, but a multinational federation)

Indeed it's not.

It's true that Stalin's regime practiced terrible genocide against its own people, but otherwise USSR could hardly be attributed as "most genocidal", especially considering that genocide was never a practice inherent to socialist ideology (unlike, for example, nazism).

"otherwise"? Stalin was the face of the USSR for such a significant part of its history that otherwise is hardly an issue here. The genocidal acts done in the early- to mid-period of the USSR pretty much place it in the honerary ranks of "genocidal fucks"

Besides, just about every world power in the history is guilty of a genocide or two

That makes it alright, then.

(Ever heard of native Americans? Maybe you haven't, considering they were all but extinct!)

That is an act of the British Empire more than of the USA, tho' the US has some guilt in that, and it is part of their history.

so I don't see how USSR is any more or less genocidal than others.

Except for the part where it has had more genocide than others, you mean?

USSR was a typical communist totalitarian dictatorship, and I don't see how it's more repressive than countless other dictatorships that existed in the history.

The USSR was not the most repressive, no, but it was, again, one of the highest ranking. Moreso than, say, China.

WTF? USSR existed from 1917 to 1991. That's 74 years. How is that "longest-lasting"?

Puts it higher up than Nazi Germany, ey?

But indeed, the USSR was one of the shorter-living nations...even amongst repressive nations...

Even if your presumptions about USSR were correct, I don't see how Reagan was instrumental in the fall of USSR. Due to inefficient socialist economic model, collapse of the Soviet Union was only a matter of time, and Reagan had nothing to do with it. I'd go as far as to say that his deliberate impairments of Soviet-US relations and his initiating of yet another armaments race were very irresponsible, reckless and dangerous acts.

Reaganists like CC hold that Reagan pushed the USSR over the edge by his enormous investing in the US military

This is of course a ludicrous and rediculous statement. Everyone knows so, 'cept the Reaganists.

 

[John Uskglass]

It's true that Stalin's regime practiced terrible genocide against its own people, but otherwise USSR could hardly be attributed as "most genocidal", especially considering that genocide was never a practice inherent to socialist ideology (unlike, for example, nazism). Besides, just about every world power in the history is guilty of a genocide or two, including democratic countries such as the USA (Ever heard of native Americans? Maybe you haven't, considering they were all but extinct!), so I don't see how USSR is any more or less genocidal than others.

Genocide or two?
How about 50 million people dead in Stalin's regiem, and many, many millions more dead during Lenin's admnistration, or how about the 2 million dead Afghans with the war there?

Okay, 70 million dead in a few decades. That's a hell of a lot.

USSR was a typical communist totalitarian dictatorship, and I don't see how it's more repressive than countless other dictatorships that existed in the history.

I did'nt compare it to any of the other repressive nations in history. I don't know how you can call it anything then one of the most repressive nations in history, up there with Mao's China, Nazi Europe and mabbe Laos. It's up there.

WTF? USSR existed from 1917 to 1991. That's 74 years. How is that "longest-lasting"?

Other genocidal nations
Nazi Germany 1933-1945
Mao's China 1954-1997 (death of Deng Ziao-Ping)
Pol Pot's Cambodia Late 70s
Late Ottoman Empire 1839-1920

actually our economy is in the toilet from sep 11 and bush

Looked at a newpaper lately?

Welsh, you forgot the part about selling chemical weapons to Iraq.

Wow. THat's fairly close to a lie. First of all, he sold chemical wepons to the Iraqis so they would'nt go to the Commies. He realized that the most important thing in the world was getting rid of the commies. And he did.



Reagen's legacy will be eradicating the greatest threat to wold peace in history, and bringing the world back from the brink of total nuclear annihialation. Did he have problems? Yes. But he did more then any post war president to bring stability and peace to the world.

And he just died for Christ's sake. Dont mock a man on the day he dies...

 

[John Uskglass]

Reaganists like CC hold that Reagan pushed the USSR over the edge by his enormous investing in the US military

This is of course a ludicrous and rediculous statement. Everyone knows so, 'cept the Reaganists.

Eh? No.
It was a combined effort. Gorbachev's initial stupidity in the war with Afghanistan, Reagen's support of the Mujahhadeen, Reagen's simply out-building the USSR, Gorbachev's attempt to turn the USSR into smething more of a 2nd Way Social Democracy.....Reagen and Gorbachev where the two most important people involved, but I'd say Reagen was more important.

 

[Wooz]

First of all, he sold chemical wepons to the Iraqis so they would'nt go to the Commies. He realized that the most important thing in the world was getting rid of the commies. And he did.

Sure.
What's a million dead, when it's keeping out the Russians?

Second?