Real life parrelels in our faction choices? and sympathies.

The Enclave 86 said:
RogerMaxson37 said:
White Knight said:
Don't kid yourself. The BoS fired the first shot in the war, and the NCR retaliated. It wouldn't have happened if the BoS weren't so xenophobic and over-zealous. So they dug their own grave by waging war on a bigger faction.

I could have sworn the BoS originally discovered the Helios One Facility and the NCR took it from them.

The war isn't only over Helios ONE, in-fact in the NCR-BoS ending slide it says that the war continued to be fought back in California. The loading quote in New Vegas says, "The Brotherhood waged a long and bloody war against the NCR"" and about half way through this Sawyer interview he says it was because the NCR refused to relinquish tech to the Brotherhood.

Ahh... oh well. Hopefully the Yes Man ending becomes the canon ending. I'd hate to see the West Coast BoS get wiped out. I don't want the NCR ending to become canon though because the NCR is just getting boring. If they just keep taking over everything then there will be no interesting conflict left in the waste. Really, I just hope that anything other than the NCR ending becomes canon, that is, if a canon ending is ever "picked".

I just hate what has happened to the BoS... the BoS on the East Coast are a bunch of goofy bastards that have lost sight of what they're supposed to be doing, and the BoS on the West Coast have taken what they're supposed to be doing way too far.
 
Mr. House is the one.

An immortal human mind which is unable to fail because of trivial motives such as love, hate and greed, at least, that other men would.
He makes the best calculations in order to keep everything in order. In my opinion, a calculator-minded human who is the only one that lived to see the world going into armageddon, survive and then rise again and aspires more to a omni: present, scient, potent living than an Alpha Male or Tribe Leader, Mayor or President.

I solely sympathize him because I think he doesn't perceive life anymore as me, you, us, we do, instead he takes on the role of protector of humanity while proving to be the best choice when it comes to avoid human-error.
 
I (as of yesterday) did a run with all 4 factions. And my number 1 choice remains what it was at the very beginning; NCR.

I am a student in politics and communications, so propaganda and the like are pretty much central to my interests. I believe in democracy first and foremost, because human nature more or less guarantees a person with much power will mis-use it. As good ol' Abe said, ''Nearly all men can stand adversity. If you want to test one, give him power''. And so many have failed that test miserably it's not even funny.

Which brings us to New Vegas. First, Yes Man, while a very cool path and character and all, is simply not an option. Yes Man more or less flatly states he will run the show as he sees fit, and an army of killer robots lead by a (potentially) mad AI is not exactly the best way for a brighter future as far as humans are concerned. Plus, even if he does obey the courier, s/he could be a power-crazy asshole, or just a moron who punches everything that looks funny. Too much unreliability here (independent does have good endings if the Courier is intelligent, but no guarantees s/he actually is)

Now, for Caesar. He has somewhat good intentions, I guess. And his good sides stop right there. He holds his faction together by violence and butchery, which either doesn't last long or end with a path of wanton destruction carved through the land (see Mongols and Nazis to a lesser extent). He is a slavist, racist, hypocrite, pseudo-intellectual ass whose only uses his power to acquire more power by horrific means, then justifies it by saying ''oh, but wait, once I get New Vegas, I will reform my armies, build a true empire, people will flock to me and the friggin clouds will part and a thousand angels will distribute sexbots to everyone!''. Yeah. right. How many times did this actually happen in history? People never wilfully relinquish absolute power when they have it. It's never happened. It will not happen. Oh, and we also have Lanius, who just kills everybody he can't enslave, even the peaceful doctors and respected adversaries.

Mr. House is the last one, and is a bit trickier. He says he has great plans, yes. He says. That's the problem. He only ever does that, saying ''oh, but I could make the Wasteland a paradise, just give me a robot army and kick the asses of the two other major factions single-handedly! Then listen to me saying how awesome I am while the epilogue plays out and only says New Vegas is orderly, but cold and despotic!''. His long-term goals make little sense anyway; why would the NCR establish a trade relationship with him? He just denied them the extremely valuable Hoover Dam and New Vegas. Plus, he has nothing to trade, the people of New Vegas (who remain a shithole under his watch) were fed and cared for either by the NCR or a local group he has no control over (Kings and Followers). New Vegas produces only robots, casinos, and the power to keep these things working. You don't make an economy or nation based on that, and House has shown to be capable of nothing else.

As for the NCR, they are far from perfect. Corruption, obstrusive bureaucracy and bull-headed patriotism aboundé But it's still so much better than a dictatorship, because it has stability and longevity. Once a democracy is established, it's very difficult to take down, the idea is ingrained and inspiring. A tyrant can be forgotten as soon as he is deposed. A democracy has legitimacy in itself. A tyrant is only legitimate so long as he has a bigger stick than the others. A democracy has a certain amount of care to it's citizenry (if only for that whole ''election'' business, a Tyrant cares for himself and the people who allow him to stay in power.

So of course NCR has flaws, the game would be boring as hell. if they were shining paragon of white knight virtues who brought about enlightenment to the Wastes peacefully. But they still are a far better alternative than slavery, despotism, or anarchy in my books. Look at what they have actually done: establish trade routes with New Vegas; build huge farms to feed the population with their own manpower; protect the Mojave from the gentlemen over the river; establish cordial relations with House; fight other sorts of troubles (Khans and Fiends, mostly); help communities that accept them (look at Goodspring's and Primm's endings with NCR). It's not just a blind love for democracy I have; they have done more than any other major faction, and their epilogues are, apart from sometimes independent, the best for most of the factions of the Mojave.
 
I like playing for the NCR because it's like nurturing baby America, you know it'll grow up big and strong but be a bit 'special'.
 
Despite how bad they performed in this game, the best bet in real life would be NCR. Compare to the other main faction, they actually tried their best to help the people. Sure, Prim and Freeside were some of the exceptional, but with good reasons. The only thing I didn't like about NCR was their highest rank officer, the trio assholes;President Kimball, General Oliver and Colonel Moore. But hey, who actually like their superior, right?
 
As of right now, the only path I have not followed is Caesar's Legion.

As for who I would side with based on that. Mr. House is where I'd fall. While I really have nothing against the NCR, I even ended up being idolized by them, I find that I like the idea of Mr. House running the Mojave more than them for the simple fact that they are overextending themselves. As for Mr. House, he's a businessman who has invested a staggering amount into the Mojave. He's by all accounts a greedy capitalist, and that's why I trust him. I trust him to do what's best for business and what will turn the most profit in the long run. Oppressing the people of the Mojave to pianist levels isn't good business. Sure, he has to maintain an iron grip on the strip but if you recall, it IS still a nuclear apocalypse, might makes right still applies more than ever.

As for the NCR, I expect Mr. House to retain good relations with the NCR due to the simple fact that they are, by his own admission, his best customers. He just wants the NCR's army out of the Mojave since he now has the resources to protect it himself.
 
I pretty much have to go with the Pro-NCR bandwagon. They are the USA, flawed but i wouldnt want to live anywhere else. I'll be honest, as much as i might dislike it now, my very first game was a Yes-man ending. i was very "Pro BoS" at the time and I had painted myself into a corner as i helped Harkin take over which, as far as i know, means death to the BoS if you dont go yesman as all 3 factions will want them dead.

Ceasars legion is a non-option for me, between being technophobes, and barbaric treating women as cattle and breeding stock just doesnt sit well with me, never did a legeon playthrough, never will.

Team House was who i initially figured i'd go for but i just dont agree with the man, he can talk a great deal about what he wants to do but at the end of the day hes done nothing more then preserve Vegas. If a post appocolyptic society immerged from the wreakage of nuclear fire i would be worried if it was modelled after vegas, the place has very few redeaming qualities. House just seems to embody that out of touch ivory tower mindset. In this case a intellectual elite that rule over the drunken masses that are kept in a stupor. If there was some show of support from House doing more then just helping the strip, (maybe something to help Freeside or Westside instead of just talking about how important he is i'd support him, but he doesnt so i dont which leads me to the NCR

The NCR has issues as Ilosar has so elequently explained. their leadership sucks. they are spreading themselves too thin, but they are bringing order to the wasteland, they are working on public works (food production, power generation etc) The parallels to the west being "won" are obvious and blatent (and no doubtly on purpose) and just like i dont feel bad for 18-19th century USA displacing and converting tribals i dont feel bad for the NCR doing it either. In the end the NCR needs help its a good thing my Courier is there to lend a hand.
 
Felspawn said:
I pretty much have to go with the Pro-NCR bandwagon. They are the USA, flawed but i wouldnt want to live anywhere else. I'll be honest, as much as i might dislike it now, my very first game was a Yes-man ending. i was very "Pro BoS" at the time and I had painted myself into a corner as i helped Harkin take over which, as far as i know, means death to the BoS if you dont go yesman as all 3 factions will want them dead.

That reminds me of my third playthrough. I was planning on doing an NCR playthrough, but when I got to the part where you were supposed to destroy the BoS, I went there and and did the 'Still in the Dark' quest, helping Hardin become elder. Well, I didn't know that you had to destroy them if you did that, and I wasn't about to destroy them after becoming a 'member', so I just went with the Yes Man ending.
 
I still have not finished my first NV playthrough. As I told in another topic, when I first talked to Vulpes in Nipton I kinda liked his discourse, but when I visited the Fort I understood all the negative aspects of the Legion.

Then I started to feel hope for the NCR, but reading the Crimson Caravan plans on taking over the Utah market by the introduction of cheap NCR products. That showed me they actually are imperialists, not only in a militar way but also economically. I am againsts that so I decided not to let them take control of Vegas.
 
I chose NCR because of Nostalgia and i kinda thought everyone would go for the Independent ending anyway.

In real life i'd pick House.
 
NCR are the same bunch of crooked corrupt bureaucrats you see today in international institutions

Mr. House is pretty much 1984's Big Brother

The Legion is based around an archaic and obsolete concept, that failed in the exact moment the first barbarians arrived on Europe, so long ago

Yes Man, is pretty much a puppet, however, he is a puppet that CAN go insane I will give you that.

As for the BoS and the Followers, well, the BoS is a perfect case example of the Darwinist ideas on evolution, either evolve or die. The Followers? Well, I like them but, they need to form some sort of military capability or they will perish in the long run.

The best ending possible would be an Indepedent Vegas with no House and no Yes Man, one would need to have the support of all the groups Yes Man tells you about and in the end disable the Sycophantic AI. Afterwards one would have to form a sort of federation (or at the very least a pact of cooperation) with all of the factions that supported the player and relegate the Securitrons to Military Support roles.
 
MasterOfPuppetsOrMutants said:
As for the BoS and the Followers, well, the BoS is a perfect case example of the Darwinist ideas on evolution, either evolve or die.

Just to nit pick, that's social darwinism not normal darwinism. One has more eugenics than the other.

If I had to pick from the big boys I would probably go NCR. Yea, they aren't perfect but they are progressive and being a republic allows people such as the Followers to influence them.
... Once the Followers and the NCR kiss and make up of course. :P

Also they have the NCR Rangers and those guys are so awesome they make up for anything else.
 
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