Religious nutjobs change history

[Sander]

What is wrong with the strong standard system? I would think an attempt at a minimum standard for what people should know across the country would be beneficial as it would help create a base expectation of knowledge.

The problem is that that is how you turn history lessons into a political vessel.

 

[SimpleMinded]

True, though to be fair, in this case it was done by an organization of the states superintendents so it hopefully wouldn't suffer from the political doctrine but I understand the risk.

Though a uniform political education (nationwide) versus a state-by-state based political education (state system) doesn't seem to change the fact that in either case, you get someone's bias. It's just how wide-scale your common view is.

 

[Sander]

True, though to be fair, in this case it was done by an organization of the states superintendents so it hopefully wouldn't suffer from the political doctrine but I understand the risk.

Though a uniform political education (nationwide) versus a state-by-state based political education (state system) doesn't seem to change the fact that in either case, you get someone's bias. It's just how wide-scale your common view is.

Yep. The problem of lessons being tainted by politics isn't really new and happens in every country. It's tough to eliminate because even the selection of materials carries that bias.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

This is funny as hell, actually. Most countries with strong standard curriculum requirements have been trying to move away from the system to be more like the American system (Eastern European education), and here the Americans are thinking of doing the opposite thing.

That's pretty funny considering that the US's k-12 education system is worse than Europe's.

Yep. The problem of lessons being tainted by politics isn't really new and happens in every country. It's tough to eliminate because even the selection of materials carries that bias.

Yes but the advantage of having a standard is that you actually have concrete numbers to compare across states at every grade. It would also allow for better measurement of teacher performance by seeing the difference in test results from the beginning of the year to those at the end of the year, giving schools and school districts good performance evaluation data, something most teachers are opposed to. For social studies it's a bit touchy but the people you should not have be determining any school curriculum are legislators. A section of the US Department of Education should be established to deal with it all.

 

[Sander]

That's pretty funny considering that the US's k-12 education system is worse than Europe's.

'Europe' is nowhere near a uniform schooling system, so making that comparison makes no sense. The European countries that have quality education established are generally not trying to copy the US in any way. I don't know about the lower end of the European education spectrum, but it's quite possible that they are copying the US and that the US does have a better education system.

Yes but the advantage of having a standard is that you actually have concrete numbers to compare across states at every grade. It would also allow for better measurement of teacher performance by seeing the difference in test results from the beginning of the year to those at the end of the year, giving schools and school districts good performance evaluation data, something most teachers are opposed to. For social studies it's a bit touchy but the people you should not have be determining any school curriculum are legislators. A section of the US Department of Education should be established to deal with it all.

Perhaps that would work, although committees and sections of government departments are still not the best source of independent judgement.

This isn't really a problem that is easily solved, though generally speaking involving experts in the field is usually best.

 

[Harold]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35839979/ns/us_news-education


I saw this on I Am Bored and had to post it here. The article says that after a vote in the Texas State Board of Education, elements indirectly advertising the Christian faith and traditions, along with ultraconservative ideology, will be taught in various school lessons.

What's your reaction to this? Is it as bad/major as the article suggests, or is it just biased media hype?

Apparently arguments were tossed around that seem completely trivial to me:

Board members argued about the classification of historic periods (still B.C. and A.D., rather than B.C.E. and C.E.); whether students should be required to explain the origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and its impact on global politics (they will); and whether former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir should be required learning (she will).

The board also replaced the word “capitalism” throughout the texts with the “free-enterprise system.”

But yeah, no matter what you think, is it right to politicize children like this? For instance:

Conservatives also included a plank to ensure that students learn about “the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s, including Phyllis Schlafly, the Contract With America, the Heritage Foundation, the Moral Majority and the National Rifle Association,” The New York Times reported.

This hardly seems relevant.


Well, Texas sure seems to live up to the stereotype Europeans have of it. Then again, this is an MSNBC article. But could this affect education all over the United States? What are the long-term consequences, if there are any?

Makes perfect sense. Start indoctrinating them when they're young and they're less likely to start thinking independently when they grow up. Right now the disinformation they're inserting may be trivial but it might not be when this has been going on for a couple of decades. This is just sneaking it in, taking small steps in order to avoid an uproar. Who knows what your great grandchildren will be hearing when they go to school in the future, maybe that Russia were the ones who nuked Japan.

This is not only about religion - this is social control by the government. Remember that over 75% of the population in the US are christian.

The board also replaced the word “capitalism” throughout the texts with the “free-enterprise system.”

Already introducing newspeak.

Yes, but isn't that expected from the Chinese?

You are correct: China has never been a country that claims to be free. Already in ancient China the emperors were openly rewriting history to whatever suited them and that's what's kept the country together. Today the US is trying to paint them out as the devil for doing what they always have done while doing the same things themselves and lying about it. I guess when you have power there is a pretty strong incentive to hang on to it.

I can agree with promoting the NRA though, since the right to bear arms would be giving power to the people. That doesn't add up.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I wouldn't worry too much about curriculum as long as schools are still hiring competant teachers and there are at least a few inquisitive students in every class.

You're not familiar with public education in the U.S., I take it. There's a reason most American kids can't find Mexico or Canada on a map.

I'll wait to see one of the new textbooks before forming an opinion, but I haven't read anything that sounds particularly egregious. I had plenty of experiences that were egregious when I was in school, but they utterly failed to brainwash me in any way. If anything I reacted against them.

I remember I had a high school chemistry teacher who was a religious nut-job. I know for a fact he believes everyone who isn't a Christian is going to burn in hell for eternity, so, yeah, I'd call that being a nut-job. Anyway, he used to get into arguments with one of my friends who was an atheist. To be fair, he's actually a very intolerant atheist, too, so it was a recipe for fun. One day the teacher game my friend a pamphlet that said - among other things - that gay people were predisposed to be thieves. I guess some kids might see that and say, "Wow, I guess gay people really are bad," but that's not what happened. The effect was quite the opposite of the intention.

At some point, you have to figure out that you have to be skeptical about anything you were taught in school, or by your parents, or by your religion, or you'll never become an mature adult.