Reload AP

[dude_obj]

I thought that reload AP could not be changed, since the mapper only allows changing of primary and secondary attack AP. However, Corpse pointed out the FIC allows changing of reload AP.

So I tried this out, and although FIC reads and writes something that it lists as reload AP, it doesn't seem to affect the actual reload AP for the weapon. FIC writes the reload AP to hex offset 64 in the weapon prototype. Changing that value with FIC or manually with a hex editor doesn't seem to change reload AP.

Has anyone else succeeded in changing reload AP?

 

[Wild_qwerty]

Doesnt one of the pistols (a rovovler of some kind) only take one action point to reload? I'm fairly certain it was a standard pistol modifed to have a speed loader

You could check to see if the proto has any different values set.

 

[dude_obj]

Doesnt one of the pistols (a rovovler of some kind) only take one action point to reload? I'm fairly certain it was a standard pistol modifed to have a speed loader

Yes but it uses a perk ... weapon fast reload.

You could check to see if the proto has any different values set.

This is how I determined what FIC does. I looked at a proto before and after changing reload AP. It changes a value at hex offset 64. But that changed value doesn't seem to actually change the reload AP in the game.

Corpse looked at all of our new weapons (and the originals) and updated everything to make them more accurate, including ST, AP, damage, range, and even reload AP. We have some adjusted ammo protos now too. But I can't seem to make his reload AP changes work.

 

[Per]

While you're looking at protos in the mapper, could you check a few Fo1 protos for me? I want to confirm that the Sledgehammer, Super Sledge, Ripper, Power Fist and .223 Pistol have the same weapon perks as in Fo2, namely Knockback and Penetrate respectively. I've tried to make them show up in the mapper before but wasn't successful, probably because I had no idea about that /dev path thing(y).

 

[PsychoSniper]

It was the .44 magnum speed load Qwert

 

[Wild_qwerty]

oh yea, talking of modified guns. I made a FRM for a modified desert eagle ages ago

I'll see if I can find it.

It was the standard desert eagel with a 'compensator' attached to reduce the hop up effect due to the kick, it means that because the barrel doesnt hop up as much that it takes less time to re aim at a target and thus increasing the firing rate - I think

Anyway it would be cool to have a desert eagle that takes once less AP to fire

 

[dude_obj]

I want to confirm that the Sledgehammer, Super Sledge, Ripper, Power Fist and .223 Pistol have the same weapon perks as in Fo2, namely Knockback and Penetrate respectively.

Yes the FO1 protos for these have the same perks.

I've tried to make them show up in the mapper before but wasn't successful, probably because I had no idea about that /dev path thing(y).

Did the mapper just refuse to start? I think that some of the FO1 text files are incompatible with the mapper. To look at the FO1 protos, I made a patch directory and copied in the FO1 proto, art, and text files, then in the text directory I deleted everything but the pro_*.msg files in text\english\game. I changed the mapper2.cfg to set the master_patches and critter_patches to this new directory for FO1.

 

[Per]

Did the mapper just refuse to start? I think that some of the FO1 text files are incompatible with the mapper. To look at the FO1 protos, I made a patch directory and copied in the FO1 proto, art, and text files, then in the text directory I deleted everything but the pro_*.msg files in text\english\game. I changed the mapper2.cfg to set the master_patches and critter_patches to this new directory for FO1.

Nothing that advanced, I just tried to throw the Fo1 .pros in Fallout2/data/items or data/data/items, which obviously didn't work. Thanks for the confirmation. Think you could look into the possibility of a Fo1-compatible version of FUCK, or even a converter? I assume the Fo1 critter protos contain less information and not more, so it should be easy to just read what's there and disregard what's not...

 

[Wild_qwerty]

You could probably get the source code for it somewhere, maybe on the team-x website?

 

[dude_obj]

Think you could look into the possibility of a Fo1-compatible version of FUCK, or even a converter?

The FO2 critter protos are 4 bytes longer than FO1. I think that if the FO1 protos were just resized with zero in the last 4 bytes then they could be viewed in the mapper and probably fuck too. I will test this out later. It looks the item protos are the same size, so those were viewable in the mapper. I can probably write a simple util that will resize those FO1 protos.

 

[Wild_qwerty]

Cool! That would be the easier way of doing it

 

[dude_obj]

Think you could look into the possibility of a Fo1-compatible version of FUCK, or even a converter?

Converter be done. Try this:

1) Copy your FO1 critter protos to a temp directory
2) Copy this and this to that directory
3) Get to that directory in a command (DOS) shell
4) Type resize [enter]
5) Go fuck your FO1 protos

 

[Per]

Nice nice nice! Now I may be able to check if the Long Range weapon perk really works differently in the two games or if it's just that Fo1 includes much less information in the displayed chance to hit.

Some other random things while we're delightfully off the topic of APs:

1. I discovered that NPC carrying capacity in Fo1 disregards equipped armour, possibly also equipped weapon. Since you get the "no space" message when trying to plant items on full NPCs, they probably have some kind of container capacity which checks only what's in their base inventory.

2. In Fo1 scripts, the reaction subroutine expects local_var(3) to tell if the critter is good or evil, but it's never set anywhere, and I could find no critter in the game that reacts negatively to high karma. A funny thing is that I think this oversight was corrected in Fo2, but there the reaction system isn't used called properly anyway...

People say Fo2 is bugged, and it is, but Fo1 is really chock full of bugs as well. It's just that many of them aren't very apparent.

 

[dude_obj]

1. I discovered that NPC carrying capacity in Fo1 disregards equipped armour, possibly also equipped weapon.

The "armored" critter protos have the damage resistance and threshold set equal to the armor type that they appear to be wearing, even though they are NOT wearing it. In other words, NPCs don't even need the armor. I think that mappers can put their equivalent armor in their inventory, so it can be looted, or they can choose not to (we can see examples of both in the games).

In the mapper critter prototype editor there is an "armor stamp" button, and what this does is the set the critters damage resistance/threshold equal to the armor item that you select.

EDIT: I am talking about NPCs in general above. I consider all non player characters to be NPCs (I noticed some people here use that term for party members). For party members, (in FO2) they call a remove_armor command to take the armor off, but I see no command for putting it on. So its an "engine thing" where all the voodoo magic happens. So perhaps they just set the damage stats and the party members don't actually wear the armor.

Since you get the "no space" message when trying to plant items on full NPCs, they probably have some kind of container capacity which checks only what's in their base inventory.

Yes they act like containers, but nowhere (at least known) is the container capacity for the critter. BTW I fixed a bunch of container capacities for my FO2 expansion pack, because some made sense but many did not. It makes no sense that a desk drawer can hold as much as a whole locker for example. It is painfully obvious when looking at all of the code/configuration that many people worked on these things, with different ideas and standards ...

In Fo1 scripts, the reaction subroutine expects local_var(3) to tell if the critter is good or evil, but it's never set anywhere

It looks to me like most of the scripts use local_var 0 and 1 in their reaction procedures. I see what you mean about scripts testing local_var 3 but not setting it.

People say Fo2 is bugged, and it is, but Fo1 is really chock full of bugs as well. It's just that many of them aren't very apparent.

The main problem is that its nearly impossible to properly debug scripts with this engine. Quoting Jess from the Fallout Bible ... "Sometimes there were function calls that didn't work right and would crash the game. If this happened in your script, then you'd get the blame ... even if it was a function that you hadn't written, had no access to, and couldn't fix. No choice then but to put the programmer in a headlock and force code out of him * like squeezing the juice from a rancid turnip".

They didn't even have external variables initially, and had trouble making objects interact with other objects. It also seems that they went a tad too complex with many of the script headers and scripts. Take a look at command.h, but don't look too long ...

I wonder if they made decent desserts?

EDIT: In spite of the bugs, and knowing some of the limitations that scripters had, it was an amazing result, in fact its the best. Fallout kind of ruined gaming for me, nothing else seems even remotely as interesting. I built a new PC because I bought a game that needed DX9 support and I didn't have an AGP slot. Now I have a blazing fast PC, but all I really need is a 90Mhz pentium to run fallout I installed that new game and looked at it once. Maybe I will play it some day.

 

[dude_obj]

One last word on this Reload AP topic....

This item proto spec page by Borg Locutus does list reload AP, at the same location that FIC writes this value.

But no matter what I put there, 0,2,3,4 etc ... the reload AP is always 2. Strange how all of the action point fields have 4 bytes each. One byte would allow for 255 action points (FF=255). 4 bytes would allow for 4 million action points

To be thorough, I actually tested the action points used rather than just looking at the number listed on the GUI. Yep its always 2. Also, I tried setting values in each of the 4 bytes listed as reload AP in the above mentioned spec, just in case the offset was slightly wrong. Nothing changes reload AP as far as I can tell, and given that they needed a perk for fast reload (44 magnum w/speed load), that seems to be more evidence that reload AP just doesn't work.

 

[Per]

The "armored" critter protos have the damage resistance and threshold set equal to the armor type that they appear to be wearing, even though they are NOT wearing it. In other words, NPCs don't even need the armor. I think that mappers can put their equivalent armor in their inventory, so it can be looted, or they can choose not to (we can see examples of both in the games).

So perhaps they just set the damage stats and the party members don't actually wear the armor.

I know party members wear them in Fo1, but you mean if I knock them unconscious and take their armour, they still have the same stats? That's... well, silly. Still, has advantages from a design viewpoint (though an alternative solution to avoid inconsistencies would be to hardcode critters to disregard proto resistances if wearing armour).

Yes they act like containers, but nowhere (at least known) is the container capacity for the critter.

Katja, Ian and Tycho have carrying capacities of 25, 100 and 175 respectively. You could look for the values in their protos; maybe they're specified by a factor of 25.

By the way, Locutus would be better known as Celestial here.

 

[Silencer]

By the way, Locutus would be better known as Celestial here.

If he were to show up... his last posts are from before September

 

[dude_obj]

I know party members wear them in Fo1, but you mean if I knock them unconscious and take their armour, they still have the same stats? That's... well, silly.

In FO2 all armored protos seem to set the damage resistance to match their appearance, except for party members (cassidy appears to be wearing leather but has no damage resist). I haven't looked closely at FO1 but it probably works the same way.

Still, has advantages from a design viewpoint

Yeah it looks like they did that so you can just drop critters on the map without having to add armor to their inventory. This would be especially important since there seems to be no script command to equip armor, but there is for weapons. So scripts could fully equip the critters, but they cannot armor them. The engine appears to handle party member armor equipping by implementing a function called party_gear_options.

By the way, Locutus would be better known as Celestial here.

Ah he went from borg all the way to celestial being.

 

[Per]

I resized the Fo1 critter protos (had to change the batch file a bit to please the Win98 version of MS-DOS) and have happily... no, I won't type that out. Discoveries include but are not limited to:

* Katja is stamped with combat armour.

* Garl is stamped with leather instead of metal.

* All Brotherhood paladins wear better power armour than your own.

* The Master, the Lieutenant and Brotherhood paladins are somewhat susceptible to EMP damage, which makes sense. Have to check if the Fo2 Enclave soldiers and/or Horrigan do that too.

* One proto, 274, seems to have had 416 bytes originally.

 

[dude_obj]

have happily... no, I won't type that out.

No need to be embarassed about affection towards FO protos

* Katja is stamped with combat armour.

Interesting. And yet Katja quickly becomes an armor stamp on the ground dead soon after you meet her. She doesn't have enough HP to deal with the muties in the cathedral. I think they should have placed her earlier in the game so she could develop some HP and skills before standing face to face with miniguns and energy weapons.