RPGCodex "does" MCA

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
RPGCodex posted a rather hilarious picture-filled "interview" (if I can refer to it as such) with our dear beloved Chris Avellone, which brought up that well-remembered painful subject that is New Reno:<blockquote>SERGE: Let's go briefly through your career-defining moments. Fallout 2, New Reno. (...) I feel that organized crime and "families" are too much for a post-apoc setting. Organized crime, in my opinion, requires a much more developed social infrastructure. In a less developed one, there is no reason for bandits and raiders to form anything higher than a gang.

CHRIS: Okay, well that's no fun. I completely disagree with that. I think if you have the organized structure for towns, cities, caravans, religious cults, water merchants, then you can either have some structure that equates to that or a predator that feeds on those structures (like Decker was in the Hub, and he was many, many years before New Reno). I was going off a one-page design outline for the area that Tim Cain had done, but I agreed with it, and I am sure Tim would still agree with it on principle, if not on execution.
(...)
Secondly, I (and Tom French, now a rockstar at Pandemic) had a lot of fun working on New Reno. I think it presents a lot of fun role-playing opportunities and things to do, no matter what "type" of character you are, but does it fit in the setting? No, probably not. It's too sexually over the top, too much profanity, and the look and attitude of some of the characters is too modern-day to complement the feel of the Fallout world (the Mordino family, the fedora hats, the porn studio, the tommy guns, shivs). In that respect, I would consider it an immature design, and while I had fun with it, I don't think it was the best rendition of a section of the Fallout world. It also had horrible load times because I crammed too much stuff in there.

But I still think it was fun to play, and it was fun to design. And I think it was cool to be able to go back there after the game was over and have some fun. And killing the crime bosses in secret ways was fun. And I liked Golgotha, even if the name was inappropriate. And I liked Lenny's Dad (thanks, French).</blockquote>Oh, dear. But on a subject closer to our hearts *right now* (and RPGCodex will have to forgive me quoting so much, but it's good stuff);<blockquote>SERGE: Isometric vs anything else. How important the camera angle is? Does it add anything to gameplay? Some people believe that a true Fallout sequel should be isometric, some say that it's not very important? What's your opinion as an ex-Fallout developer?

CHRIS: Camera angle is critical to gameplay. Isometric is more tactical, less immersive, but better for any game where you have to manage more than one companion.

Is it important to Fallout? Beats me. When we were doing Fallout 3, we were doing isometric just because that's the game we wanted to make. Josh can probably say more, if you wanted to ask him.

I don't think what makes Fallout great is tied to its camera angle. </blockquote>There's more mention of Fallout and other interesting stuff in there, be sure to check it out!

Link: Interview on RPGCodex, part 1
Link: Interview on RPGCodex, part 2
 
Again, with our third project, we have another sub-lead (Brian Mitsoda, who did a lot of the story work and dialogue work on Vampire: Bloodlines) devoted solely to the overall story, its presentation, dialogue, influence mechanics, and voice acting for the game.
A Troika designer at Obsidian? That sounds promising.
 
K2 was a decent action/adventure game but it had one of the worst endings of any game ever. I worked hard to influence my team and then *boom* you're on Malachor and all that effort meant jack and shit.

A simple (my fault) doesnt cut it, assclown.

Also if he clearly thinks iso gameplay isnt a neccisity for FO3. Maybe it should be a shitty ass 3rd person view pause combat game like kotor too.
 
Mani said:
Also if he clearly thinks iso gameplay isnt a neccisity for FO3. Maybe it should be a shitty ass 3rd person view pause combat game like kotor too.

Mani... You have sinned. For F3 shall be as the word of my father, and 3rd person TB shall be greatest blessing his apocalyptic endowment.
 
Jesus Christ said:
...3rd person TB shall be greatest blessing his apocalyptic endowment.

I'm not even sure how to best respond to that without it degrading to enraged sputtering.
 
On perspective

In my opinion, the camera does have alot of impact on how things are portrayed. A first person or "shoulder" cam would take alot away from one of the best things in Fallout: The tactical combat. I loved (still do!) to take different approaches to combat situations and see what would happen if you did this or that.

For that to still work, I'd like to have an overhead camera in Fo3. Not necessarily fixed to true isometric, but bird's view in one way or another. If you could rotate 360 degrees, and zoom a bit in and out, that would kick ass. And for the rabid fans, a hotkey to set the camera in isometric Fallout 1/2 style :D
 
Jesus Christ said:
For F3 shall be as the word of my father, and 3rd person TB shall be greatest blessing his apocalyptic endowment.

I'll assume you meant isometric-view with turn-based combat, Jesus. 3rd person is basically the same as 1st person, with the added feature of staring at someone's ass during the entire game.
 
Kharn said:
I'll assume you meant isometric-view with turn-based combat, Jesus. 3rd person is basically the same as 1st person, with the added feature of staring at someone's ass during the entire game.

Yah, my bad. iso view TB is what I intended with that comment. Please no nail me back up... :cry:
 
Taintspore said:
I'm not even sure how to best respond to that without it degrading to enraged sputtering.
How dare ye talk to thy Lord Jesus like that, infidel? Thou shalt be condemned to eternal torment at the hands of the Dark One, sinner! Repent now, and pray for salvation of thy immortal soul!
 
Ratty said:
Taintspore said:
I'm not even sure how to best respond to that without it degrading to enraged sputtering.
How dare ye talk to thy Lord Jesus like that, infidel? Thou shalt be condemned to eternal torment at the hands of the Dark One, sinner! Repent now, and pray for salvation of thy immortal soul!

Taintspore: Ask for forgiveness in prayer and it shall be granted. Except me into your heart, lest ye shall lick Ratty where he sits for all eternity. :evil:
 
Thou art starting to stretch it, is there such less faith into the
son of gawd that he hath to execute his will all by himself? 8)

By the way, the interview, if it may be called like this,
is a nice read, some vacation from Pete Hines interviews.
 
I agree with MCA's assessment there of New Reno. Glad he can see it that way and not get *too* defensive :) . It did have some fun moments, but didn't really fit.
 
MurkyShadow said:
Thou art starting to stretch it, is there such less faith into the
son of gawd that he hath to execute his will all by himself? 8)

No. Taintspore must execute my will by licking Ratty where he sits. :moon:
 
Clueless Chris said:
Is it important to Fallout? Beats me. When we were doing Fallout 3, we were doing isometric just because that's the game we wanted to make. Josh can probably say more, if you wanted to ask him.

I don't think what makes Fallout great is tied to its camera angle.

Yup, still clueless. Even after having to be corrected at every fucking turn for his "bible", which was as clueless as J.E. Sawyer's P&P ruleset (more irony). Speaking of the Fallout Bible, I'd like to thank Serge for correcting Chris again about games Chris has supposedly worked upon. It is pretty bad when the fans know your work better than you do, but that's just MCA's Special charm. :D

What's next, shitty excuses about "NCR's fleet of cars"?

No, only stupidity about what makes a CRPG:

Clueless Chris said:
What the hell is the "core role-playing game formula?" Here’s my take on it:

You role-play. You are given the choice of putting yourself into a role and the game allows you to act out that role, and ideally, gives you the means and game mechanics to do so - if you want to be evil, you can, and it has repercussions. If you want to Mr. Stealthy, there is a stealth skill, and it allows you to do cool things.

SERGE: Ideally? You’ve gotta be kidding. If a game doesn’t give you means & mechanics to act a role, it’s not a role-playing game, it’s any game where you pretend that you are the main character. Like Quake.

I have to agree with Serge here. It's not "role-playing", it's "make-believe", a land where Chris still obviously seems to inhabit. A CRPG is not something that IDEALLY lets you do something - those aspects are REQUIRED for the game to be termed a CRPG; I have to note that his definition is the only way any BIS/BioWare/Obsidian game besides PS:T even remotely comes close to being classified as a CRPG, but you have "choices"! Important choices like whether to play a fighter or a cleric, or to pick the blue lightsaber glowy effect twink class over the red lightsaber effect glowy twink class, in most BioWhore games.

So I guess what is considered "roleplaying depth" around those two companies consists of "evil" and "stealthy", which are both fairly recent concepts for the BioWhore Collective, as they just figured out how to make playing evil cliché as fuck with KoTOR and KoTOR II: The Shit Lords, and stealthy is found in almost every FPS out today.

Really, asking anyone now at the BioWhore Collective about role-playing is like expecting an intelligent answer from Microsoft about QA schedules. It's just not going to happen, and if it does, it isn't going to be pretty.

Who can argue with such stellar work like that flowchart?

But even then, we had to stage some fights in there to break it up along with some mini-dungeons - and since then (Targos in Icewind Dale 2), I've tried to include a lot more combat at the beginning to break up the talking.

Of course, because everyone knows there's only two things to do in a CRPG - talk and fight! Correction, that's all the BioWhore Collective knows.

Sorry, Chris, but Asswind Dale 2 wasn't that impressive, and neither were your attempts to "liven it up". In fact, they just made it suck like the typical combat-heavy but otherwise vapid trash found in Baldur's Gate.

kay, so character resonance - I do think Kreia was a deep character, personally, but I can see how you would feel that way with some other characters... people were strangely divided on Bao-Dur, for example, and G0-T0, while I enjoyed him and I thought his voice actor was awesome (Daran Norris from Team America), he never really clicked, and that's my fault. I also tried to add more personality to T3, but I'm not sure how well that turned out, either.

Kreia was transparent as fuck, annoying, added nothing but a useless and preachy party member that pretty much everyone I've personally spoken to about the game has found too much of an annoyance to take along. And you're supposed to kiss her ass to make her happy, but that doesn't quite happen when you're playing a character you want, so some people have skipped the prestige classes entirely. As if you even remotely NEED them to finish this munchkinfest of a game.

Bao-Dur was an unfortunately single-dimensional creature, and frankly was only a meat puppet mixed with a driod, mixed with an almost Zelda-like quality of requiring him to open certain doors. What an utter waste of Smith's voice on that, as the voice acting was top notch, too bad the character SUCKED.

G0-T0 - About as in-depth as a Fallout 2 Monty Python reference. Stupid (a droid with no use as any of the other driods, not even HK-47 - only has "cool factor" since it floated like the interrogation droids in the movies), and was only developed half-ass on top of that (by the time you get this "character", you have others who are Jedi capable of wiping most encounters on their own). Really, if you have these stupid urges in the future, please follow them through, or better yet, come up with something better. Leaving them half-ass and in the game only shows what crap they truly are.

I have to mark this day, when I consider BioWare to have better design ability than Obsidian.

Well, except for the parts about Baldur's Gate 2 vs. PS:T.

Really, I will say that we designed less freedom with Torment's characters (explained by the Nameless One's powers) than BG2 did because our design staff was limited and I was lazy, so I'd keep that in mind, too. BG2's the way to go. Listen to Dave, whatever he said.

Yeah, listen to Dave, since you're essentially his bitch. :D We, however, are not. :lol:

Hmmm...any PS:T character vs. "oh, you're a whining flightless elf...sure, come alone with us" and then incessant whining, along with each and every otherwise faceless NPC you've picked up. Such whine segments that Obsidian lamely recycled (like the plot of KoTOR) for KoTOR 2's ship segments. I'll take any PS:T character. Or choose between Dakkon and the burning guy, or any of the other cast, which were created with obviously a lot more effort and depth than anything in any BioWare game to date, and any other BIS/Obsidian game, EVER. While you could develop out the characters you have in PS:T to a greater depth, which it would have been nice if they developed a bit more according to your in-game actions (which they did to a point), they were certainly a hell of a lot better in all regards to those in BG2.

Unless you count the class strongholds in BG2 to be "depth".

I thought the Jedi Masters would be cool, solely because instead of finding objects, you're finding people you interact with, which puts a new element of diplomacy and choice in there. Ultimately, we did want the same free-range exploration as the first game, so it all came down to how you present the motivation from planet to planet. I thought the fact they all knew something of personal value to you (the trial aftermath) would make the player more motivated to find them, but I don't think it worked with some people.

Three words of a clue that seems to never get through to BioWare or the idiots that suck hind titty from them:

RECYCLED. AMNESIA. PLOTS.

THEY DO NOT WORK. Anyone who has READ a sufficient amount of sci-fi or even fiction in general could tell you that. Anyone with a clue who has played the first one could tell you that the amnesia plot was a bit of a giveaway after a point, but at least they did a lot better in story design than you did. The amnesia plots especially don't work when they are so lamely written into the game as they were in these situations, so that when people have played through one version of an amnesia plot, the sequel is another amnesia plot, but only a lot crappier in detail. With the craptacular "ending" of The Shit Lords, it's a mystery anyone considers that good work or were surprised at the obviousness of it.

Really, Bastila turning on you in KoTOR I was more brilliantly written than the joke of Kreia. If she was supposed to be deep, then you need to do some more work because there was nothing deep nor surprising about her. Acting like a bitch to anything that doesn't suit her desires is not deep...that's almost Baldur's Gate 2-esque in the amount of cheese required to accompany the NPC whine. It sets a predetermined tone that makes it fairly obvious what she is going to do later on.

Finally, a note to MCA:

(In regards to PS:T being a good RPG experience.)
CHRIS: Yep. I don't know if many people who played it had the same immersion experience you did - a number of people who played could not get past the Mortuary because it was so heavy on dialogue and not much to DO, gameplay-wise.

Hint: Stop asking the BioWare morons. Reading obviously hurts them unless they get phaw lewt every five minutes so they can forget about those painful text things, as none of them would understand what a CRPG was even if they ripped off Fallout's speech system to kludge into their RTS combat engine so they would have some mistaken credit in this industry, when in fact they've just been limp-dicking along with licenses. If it wasn't for Drizzt and Elminster, their sorry asses would have still been standing there on a street corner with a shitty RTS engine and still no clue how to really develop an RPG.

Dammit, they're the people who need over 30 people to make a new engine (Odyssey), then can manage to fuck it up in classic BioWare style.

Learn to develop both a clue or a spine, or else get used to your work (and attention to your own work) sucking while sucking BioWare's hind tit. I know that can be a frightening thought, when you've done nothing but that for years.

Finally, a note to Serge:

SERGE: This one sounds like generic PR bullshit to me. You just copy-pasted it from somewhere, didn’t you?

Yeah, it seems to be how he develops. :D Copy + Paste, then it's out of the ol' memory buffer when he goes to the next element to lamely copy and alter in for maximum craptacular effect like another lame Monty Python reference. Really, if Feargus and MCA have that obviously little to do with PS:T, since both obviously don't remember shit about the game, and whose current mentality obviously didn't suit the game's development if they had it then...

Who were the REAL minds behind Planescape: Torment?
 
Roshambo said:
Speaking of the Fallout Bible, I'd like to thank Serge for correcting Chris again about games Chris has supposedly worked upon.
You are welcome. I did it for teh kidz!

Finally, a note to Serge:

Yeah, it seems to be how he develops. :D Copy + Paste, then it's out of the ol' memory buffer when he goes to the next element to lamely copy and alter in for maximum craptacular effect like another lame Monty Python reference. Really, if Feargus and MCA have that obviously little to do with PS:T, since both obviously don't remember shit about the game, and whose current mentality obviously didn't suit the game's development if they had it then...
Well, the difference between PST and KOTOR 2 is huge. K2 felt like a cheap imitation, designed by a person who tried to come close to PST, but didn't understand what made it so great and replaced depth with pretentiousness. Which brings up the question you asked.
 
I think it's both sad and deserving that someone interviewing someone who "contributed" to a game can hand them their own ass about the game. So repeateddly. Still, thanks for putting him in his place on that one.
 
VDweller said:
You are welcome. I did it for teh kidz!

*sniff* It's so nice to see someone who thinks for the children.

Err...thinks OF the children.

:D

Well, the difference between PST and KOTOR 2 is huge. K2 felt like a cheap imitation, designed by a person who tried to come close to PST, but didn't understand what made it so great and replaced depth with pretentiousness. Which brings up the question you asked.

Sorry, I didn't see much logic in the above sentence (since K2 is obviously nowhere near PS:T in terms of RPG quality and depth), so let me rephrase it so it makes much more sense:

Well, the difference between KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 is huge. K2 felt like a cheap imitation, designed by a person who tried to come close to KOTOR 1, but didn't understand what made it so great and replaced depth with pretentiousness. Which brings up the question you asked and many more.

:D

dude_obj:
Personally, I'm starting to think that Ron Perlman himself has more of a clue about Fallout than MCA ever had on a good day.

Since, y'know, Ron has actually played the games and loves material like this.
 
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