Security officials to spy on chat rooms

Dixie_Rebel

Still Mildly Glowing
What do you think about this? I think the government is getting out of control with its "surveillance". We already have cameras at intersections, freeways, parks, banks, grocery stores, etc. What's next, a camera in your own home?

Source

Security officials to spy on chat rooms
Last modified: November 24, 2004, 10:28 AM PST
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

The CIA is quietly funding federal research into surveillance of Internet chat rooms as part of an effort to identify possible terrorists, newly released documents reveal.

In April 2003, the CIA agreed to fund a series of research projects that the documents indicate were intended to create "new capabilities to combat terrorism through advanced technology." One of those projects is research at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y., devoted to automated monitoring and profiling of the behavior of chat-room users.

Even though the money ostensibly comes from the National Science Foundation, CIA officials were involved in selecting recipients for the research grants, according to a contract between the two agencies obtained by the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) and reviewed by CNET News.com.

NSF program director Leland Jameson said Wednesday the two-year agreement probably will not be renewed for the 2005 fiscal year. "Probably we won't be working with the CIA anymore at all," Jameson said. "I think that people have moved on to other things."

The NSF grant for chat-room surveillance was reported earlier this year, but without disclosure of the CIA's role in the project. The NSF-CIA memorandum of understanding says that while the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and the fight against terrorism presented U.S. spy agencies with surveillance challenges, existing spy "capabilities can be significantly enhanced with advanced technology."

EPIC director Marc Rotenberg, whose nonprofit group obtained the documents through the Freedom of Information Act, said the CIA's clandestine involvement was worrisome. "The intelligence community is changing the priorities of scientific research in the U.S.," Rotenberg said. "You have to be careful that the National Science Foundation doesn't become the National Spy Foundation."

A CIA representative would not answer questions, saying the agency's policy is never to talk about funding. The two Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute researchers involved, Bulent Yener and Mukkai Krishnamoorthy, did not respond to interview requests.

Their proposal, also disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act, received $157,673 from the CIA and NSF. It says: "We propose a system to be deployed in the background of any chat room as a silent listener for eavesdropping...The proposed system could aid the intelligence community to discover hidden communities and communication patterns in chat rooms without human intervention."

Yener and Krishnamoorthy, both associate professors of computer science, wrote that their research would involve writing a program for "silently listening" to an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) channel and "logging all the messages." One of the oldest and most popular methods

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Security officials to spy on chat rooms
Last modified: November 24, 2004, 10:28 AM PST

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for chatting online, IRC attracts hundreds of thousands of users every day. A history written by IRC creator Jarkko Oikarinen said the concept grew out of chat technology for modem-based bulletin boards in the 1980s.

The Yener and Krishnamoorthy proposal says their research will begin Jan. 1, 2005 but does not say which IRC servers will be monitored.

A June 2004 paper they published, also funded by the NSF, described a project that quietly monitored users of the popular Undernet network, which has about 144,000 users and 50,000 channels. In the paper, Yener and Krishnamoorthy predicted their work "could aid (the) intelligence community to eavesdrop in chat rooms, profile chatters and identify hidden groups of chatters in a cost-effective way" and that their future research will focus on identifying "topic-based information."

Al Teich, director of science and policy programs at the American Association for the Advancement of Science, said he does not object to the CIA funding terrorism-related research in general.

"I don't know about chat-room surveillance, but doing research on issues related to terrorism is certainly legitimate," Teich said. "Whether the CIA ought to be funding research in universities in a clandestine manner is a different issue."
 
Too Much Information

Too Much Information

Already a noise about cable installers being 'recruited' to survey homes for signs of child porn, like large numbers of VHS video tapes. Right.
So picking up you 'jocks' and hiding your 'socks' may not be enough to be a "good" citizen.

I might guess that after the 9-11 theatrical revue, by the fed. legislature, that part of the intelligence problem is shuffling through the mountains of information AND coordinating the efforts between agencies. I guess that paying for research to feed this habit is sexier than wallowing through all the data that is already at hand.

This venture looks like some spider on auto pilot logging sites, and the chat channels. Going from search surfing keyed by selected buzz wordings to total, and obsessive rat packing of all data in "public" medias.

Wonder if : this could go 100%, all software. One will be tracked, trial-ed, and convicted by computer. Much like the auto cameras that are being toyed with to trap and ticket motorists at stop lights, or for 'speeding'.
Officer Friendly will be so apologetic, when you're cuffed, "Sir, sorry, our software says you are guiltily of something".

"Private" communication, like your hard wire, 100% copper line, telephone should still need a 'judge' to tap.

Also be aware that traditional police tactics of the 'agent provocateur'
and finding some BODY guilty by association for a theatrical "show trial"
will always be with us.

How much of this is real and how much of this is misinformation?

The same rules of the road may apply, to look before you "speak" and not be trolled or seduced into typing - talking something you wouldn't
want flashed on an electric billboard in your front yard, or on a bumper sticker on your car.

4too
 
Damn. To think one of the bantering points of Republicans was that the Democratics dont respect the rights set fourth in the Constitiution...

This could lead to lawsuits, you wait and see.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
What good would a lawsuit do? Bush would just need to whisper War on Terror and any lawsuit, rightfully set or not, would dissolve before it even got national attention.

For one, this shouldn't bring a care in the world to anyone who doesn't

a) molest children

b) plan a terrorist attack

c) plan an overthrow of any local and/or state and/or national government

d) a many other numerous terrorist, molestation, murder, corrupt, threatening issues

e) a combination of any of the above

Honestly...why should anyone care, it's a chat room. Unless you have something that you'd like to hide, then you need not worry.

Cameras in our homes? Unlikely, unless Bush somehow does it before the end of his term and takes over installing a crumbling dictatorship troubled with deficits and overstretched military and strong foreign hatred and dissent.
 
Nice reference Ratty...

You say "threatening issues" Paladin Solo...thats what I was thinking. As much as people agree that certain things are wrong and that no one would care if surveillance caught terrorists and child molesters, what about policing things that arent generally agreed to be wrong under the idea that they have "threatening issues"?. For example...isnt another political party a "threatening issue" when not being a part of the the party in power is a form of dissent?

Also, what's gonna happen with people making jokes in chat rooms by pretending to be someone there not? I would hate to see people joking around to be thought of as serious criminals. I mean one could just take one look at the Order and say its full of perverts therefore it represents un-American activity and thus is filled with terrorists.

Like when being part of a labor union meant you were a godless, communist that hated the USA.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
The Order IS full of perverts and UnAmericans and terrorists. Anyone who says otherwise is obviously full of hateful western propaganda.
 
Ha, such losses of privacy have already been going on for years and I do not approve of such things. I do think that it is a good idea to have people identified as police on 'virtual patrol', as it is actually more of a deterrent to offenders than 'silent listening', with less ethical problems.

The biggest secret surveillance program I know of is the ECHELON operation (thats its popular name) which secretly monitors all transmissions they can, and allegedly does worse than this, directly tapping fiber optic cables and phone lines. It has been going on since the early 50s and is a joint effort of the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. It also involves Germany, Italy, Japan and China to a lesser extent.The operation currently consists of taking a huge amount of information from the net, phone calls and radio at random, and then sifting it through super computers which the AI acts through, focusing on particular patterns and keywords, such as 'terrorist' etc. This system annoys the EU, because most don't have access or any control of the system. It can probably monitor chat rooms already if they wanted to, and I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't done it. No one would know about the ECHELON system, but the Australian and New Zealand governments have been nice enough to confirm that it exists, although they refuse to give much detail. America still refuses to acknowledge its existence as far as I know.

Still, random keyword searching is different to targeted searching. But I don't see that much difference between finding a target group randomly and choosing to target chat rooms, it just involves more information and more analysis by people. They monitor everyone, but it might be than the CIA wants to have more influence on such things as ECHELON is mostly under NSA control.

Although such things are illegal, spys and that old phrase 'in the interests of national security' will ensure that such monitoring is sure to continue. The danger is that we don't know who controls access to such information, it generally flows to America and Britain, who are fairly trustworthy, for the moment, but who is going to watch the people doing the watching and listen in? What if a rogue nation (*cough* America *cough*) became too much like Big Brother, and started to go beyond looking for terrorists such as targeting lefty politicians (Watergate all over again) and other people who annoy the incumbent government?

Although it is a bit dated, this article from the New Statesman in 1988 provides very interesting reading on ECHELON/Project 415 and other related intelligence programs.

Tinhat.com provides more links.
 
Message boards like this one are public. What we type here we may as well spraypaint on the side of a building. (no, wait, that's illegal :wink: ) They could always look here if they wanted to, *that's* nothing new. Hopefully it won't get out of hand, which it probably won't.

Logging IRC chats is slightly different but I doubt many people trust that type of thing to be 100% secure either; anyone who uses something like that to plan a serious crime is so dumb he deserves to get caught just so I can laugh at him.

The real issue is not "OMFG teh goverment cna l@@k at my chat!!!1" but "Do you trust your government to not act like an asshole and abuse its power?"

The electronic/automated aspect also has two sides to it. If properly programmed, it would be better because software can never get "paranoid" (notice I said "If properly programmed"... let's hope the programmer isn't paranoid!) and will only function as expected.
 
ExtremeRyno said:
And now the occassional person that says "Someone set us up the bomb" is gonna go to jail.
Gods, that'd be hilarious.
"Police have interrupted transmissions from a group claiming 'All your base are belong to us' they are thought to have links to Al Qaeda and have warned the public 'You have no chance to survive make your time'. Police and intelligence networks are monitoring this new threat. It is believed that an attack is scheduled for 2101, so authorities are confident they can curtail any extremist behaviour"
 
Big T said:
ExtremeRyno said:
And now the occassional person that says "Someone set us up the bomb" is gonna go to jail.
Gods, that'd be hilarious.
"Police have interrupted transmissions from a group claiming 'All your base are belong to us' they are thought to have links to Al Qaeda and have warned the public 'You have no chance to survive make your time'. Police and intelligence networks are monitoring this new threat. It is believed that an attack is scheduled for 2101, so authorities are confident they can curtail any extremist behaviour"
:rofl:

Lets hope they dont also find "masterbates ferociously".

:roll: ,
The Vault Dweller
 
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