Seeing How there will be less firearm ammo how about

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Hmmm we should ask about that to put on the FAQ, i don`t know if it will cost that or something else.

Heh, just throwing out stuff that sounds balanced...

Btw, your one post from the Beast!

 

[Azael]

Good point, but somehow alot ammo doesn't strike me as a thing that sounds right in a post-apocalyptic world. Of course some cities/bases could have more ammo, but they would then in turn demand more caps/items for it.. Ammo should be expensive in a world like this..

I can agree that ammo should be somewhat rarer than in the previous game, at least as a trade commodity. When it comes to the more common, and more importantly, easier to make ammo types like 10 mm (or 9 mm, if Joshua's gets his way, which he will) should still be fairly common. Making these bullets isn't exactly rocket science, at least not as long as the knowledge is kept intact. Some have suggested that this should reflect in quality, basically having pre-war quality and post-apoc quality, but frankly I'd rather trust a bullet that was two weeks ago then one which was manufactured 100+ years ago. Things like SEC's and MFC's should certainly be rarer though.

And less armed attackers each time may not be such a bad idea Azael, as long as it doesn`t happen all over the game, i want to use my generic name ray gun Flash Gordon style too

Well, as long as it doesn't become too much like Mad Max and pretty much everyone uses crossbows and blowguns, I have no problem with it. Blasting people with powerful weapons is half my fun in combat.

 

[SimpleMinded]

Well, as long as it doesn't become too much like Mad Max and pretty much everyone uses crossbows and blowguns, I have no problem with it. Blasting people with powerful weapons is half my fun in combat.

I'll second that . One of my favorite parts of Fallout is the fact that it USES modern weapons. It seems every rpg is stuck in the realms of swords and sorcery and the use of guns is a fresh departure from that.

In a semi-related topic, I was curious if you guys think there will be nice dungeons to loot such as the Sierra Army Depot or the Military Base. After reading various books in post-apoc settings, I noticed many of them pointed out how eventually they would run out of salvagable equipment to take from the lost cities. And since Fallout 3 takes place quite a long time after the first two fallouts, wouldn't it make sense that most, if not all but the most heavily protected locations of this type would have been looted to the bare bones?

Not saying that this would be a good thing, just its potentially there.

 

[Old School Role-Player]

Heh, if they keep placing the timeline after each previous Fallout, then yes. Of course, if they do that, eventually they'll find themselves back in a post-apocalyptic 20th Century society--just like it was before the bombs fell.

 

[Gunslinger]

As for dungeons, I really hope they add more. I liked Arcanum's multiple dungeons and "fixed" encounters where you didn't necessarily have to visit the locations but they definitely add into the setting and it's a blast to play, anyway.

 

[OnTheBounce]

...Some have suggested that this should reflect in [the ammunition's] quality, basically having pre-war quality and post-apoc quality, but frankly I'd rather trust a bullet that was two weeks ago then one which was manufactured 100+ years ago.

I have to disagree, Azael. You're better off shooting old surplus ammo than ammo slapped together by someone w/sub-standard parts. If ammo is properly stored it can last practically indefinitely. That's why people are still shooting up surplus ammo made back during WWII today. On the other hand, if some know-nothing is busy slapping your ammo together and gets the seating depth for the bullet a couple of thousandths of an inch too deep you're looking are a huge increase in pressure, which is something that can and will FUBAR your day.

I don't think that it should necessarily come down to "pre-war = good; post-apoc = bad" when it comes to ammo. I think that a simple, straight-forward quality level would suffice. Poor quality is poor quality and good quality is good quality, it doesn't matter whether it's improperly stored pre-war ammo, or badly manufactured post-apoc ammo.

Incidentally, I really would like to see misfires/jams handled as something other than a critical failure. Perhaps these things should be influenced by Luck ("How come when we both use the same ammo I seem to get all of the duds?") but it should be the quality of equipment in question that comes into play more than anything else.

Cheers,

OTB

 

[The Deliverator]

I think that what a lot of the developers are suggesting is not an abolishment of firearms, but eliminating the grotesque material surplus that saturates the personal economy 1/4 of the way through both games.
You shouldn't be able to just ditch guns and ammo. You should be able to find and supply yourself with proper equipment to your character and skills, but it should require more effort and concentration- more than just killing and looting. You should have to fence and search out reliable sources for batteries, bullets, etc.
They are trying to make the economical part of the game more vivid, and also making Charisma-boys with Barter a lot more valuable.

 

[Montez]

Incidentally, I really would like to see misfires/jams handled as something other than a critical failure. Perhaps these things should be influenced by Luck ("How come when we both use the same ammo I seem to get all of the duds?") but it should be the quality of equipment in question that comes into play more than anything else.

Something similar to the way Wasteland handled it would be good, updated for FO. You raise your gun to fire, just get a "click" or whatever noise a jammed gun makes, and have to spend the AP's to unjam it if you want to use it again. Not the most exciting thing in the world, but much better than every CF causing you to lose a turn.

Edited - had the wrong name in the quote

 

[The Deliverator]

Would you go for an automatic unjam or a skill roll?
I would say that for most small arms, unjamming should either be automatic or the chance of failure so miniscule as to be ignored.

This could be a chance to balance the higher-damage weapons like plasma rifles, miniguns, etc. would have to make a roll against either their specific skill or the blanket Firearms skill in order to unjam. Also, if the heat index thing goes in, it could affect chances to jam and also unjam.

 

[Montez]

Would you go for an automatic unjam or a skill roll?
I would say that for most small arms, unjamming should either be automatic or the chance of failure so miniscule as to be ignored.

This could be a chance to balance the higher-damage weapons like plasma rifles, miniguns, etc. would have to make a roll against either their specific skill or the blanket Firearms skill in order to unjam. Also, if the heat index thing goes in, it could affect chances to jam and also unjam.

I think I'd prefer a skill role. That way if you're playing a gun-user, you'll most likely have the required amount of skill points to unjam the simpler weapons very easy, and the complex ones might take a round or two - also, characters with very little skill points in gun skills would have little or no chance of unjamming a weapon. I think Wasteland used the amount of skill you had as the roll - A character with 12 in "Assault Rifles" would probably unjam an AK-47 in one turn, while someone with 2 in the skill would fail repeatedly and have to pick another weapon.

 

[OnTheBounce]

Would you go for an automatic unjam or a skill roll?

I think it should be a voluntary action on the part of the character, governed by an appropriate weapons skill roll for the following reasons:

• It should be up to the player to decide what he/she wants to do w/his/her weapon. Do you attempt to unjam, or simply switch to your pistol when your rifle jams and try to get behind some good, solid cover out of LoS while you try to get your rifle back in action?
  
• An unjamming attempt should represent "immediate action", which is a simple set of steps that the firer applies when his/her weapon doesn't fire. This should probably take as many APs as it does to shoot the weapon, or perhaps only as many as it would to reload. It should also be the weapon skill that governs this, as it's more a fuction of using the weapon than understanding how the weapon works (which would fall under Repair).

My next suggestion would be that after a certain number of unsuccesful tries (perhaps 3) or a critical failure with an unjamming roll the weapon's status should worsen. I don't want to call it broken, and would leave the nomenclature up to the designers, but basically this status should represent a weapon that is in such a condition that it can't be fixed in the heat of battle. This could represent a "squib" round (a round where the primer detonates, but the powder does not for some reason, the result being that the bullet is pushed into the barrel where it stops), or a "stove pipe" (where the base of the casing tears off, leaving the chamber unable to accept another round) or something along those lines. This should be handled abstractly, though, and the game effect would be that the character would have to use his/her Repair skill on the weapon.

If the use of a Repair skill on a weapon were to be allowed in combat, it should be classed as an action that leaves the character vulnerable to enemy action (e.g. easier to hit, and/or more succeptible to critical hits).

Of course, my thinking is more in line w/TB play, and the designers would have to take steps to ensure it is playable in RT mode, but these are my suggestions.

Cheers,

OTB

 

[Vandori]

In the F3 FAQ it's said that the combos would be worthwhile in so far that you could attack 3 guys with 3 seperate punches for 3 ap each. So, use 9 ap total, or use the combo attack for a smaller amount of AP (say 5?) but you would suffer a penalty to hit them.

So it would be either focus on your target, and hit him, or go all out and beat the hell out of everyone with a chance that you'll miss one or all of them. Of course, this wouldn't matter as much to the higher level unarmed fighters, because after a certain point in your skill you just stop missing... or almost never miss. Plus, for 9 ap (out of an assumed 10 we'll say) you could hit all of them once, or with the 5 ap combo, potentially hit all of them twice.

Plus it just looks cooler.

As for the other stuff said in this post... great ideas all around. Jamming would be an interesting situation to deal with in fights.
I'd definitely enjoy it.

 

[Mulluk]

I think that the idea of unexpected attacks is a good way to make an unarmed fighter more effective.

If a character is carrying even something like a handgun, they're still quite big and heavy, so unless he's armoured and it's a small gun it could be relatively visible. Obviously not actually inducing combat, but in peaceful guarded cities (like vault city) they wouldn't even want you to have a gun in your off-hand.

The melee fighters could get away with more, as the guards cannot justify taking a screw-driver off a character until AFTER he has stuck it in someone's throat.

 

[Methidox]

I like the idea of jamming and what kind of ammo your using, heres what i have to say about all of it.

Jamming should be based on 3 things. Most importantly the quality of the weapon your using, then the skill level you have for using that type of weapon, and lastly the quality of ammo your using. (If you like to make some random stuff you can add in the amount of luck you have, towards a succesfull use of the weapon, but this should be miniscule).


Your weapons should have quality ratings, conditions like

Junk
You think its a weapon
Usefull
Deadly
Bringer of the dead!

(as you can see the ratings here go from worst to best)

and depending on the condition of the weapon is how well it works durring combat (relating to things like how much damage it does, how accuracte it is, and how often it jams)

All of these things can also relate to how good you are at using that tpye of weapon (for example if your using a pistol and have 150% on small weapons skill, even though its at "you think its a weapon" level, you can still do good damage with it every time)

Now with the ammo, conditions could be something like

Junk
It fires...
It does damage...
Kills every time!
Bringer of satan!

or something like that (as you can see i'm not too good at coming up with funny stuff, ehhh... i tried).

Now the quality of the ammo depends on where you get it, if you buy it from BoS, it will be "Kills every time" and if you steal it from an abondoned and radiated place (like the glow) it will be "Bringer of Satan" THis is becuase its an old military facility.. and its radiated so nobody can loot it (ok, ghouls could, but they are too lazy) so you found the jackpot... in the expense that the ammo is heavier than normal, and you had to get radiated to get it.

stuff like that, please tell me what you think

 

[Kain]

You could grow your own powder, like that guy in the boneyard.

Like every so often he has a few bullets for you to buy.