Sex, Drugs and.......

Black said:
And yet Deus Ex touched killable children matter.
I haven't played Deus Ex 2 but I think there also were killabe kids.

Different world? Don't give me this s**t please.
Different company without balls? Oh yeah.
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Really? I haven't played either of those, could you describe it? I know they're older games, too, so how did they handle the subject?
 
How?
Uh, by putting kids in the game and letting player choose whether to kill them or not...
 
You could subject innocent school children to excruciating napalm burning death in Invisible War..
 
That's because gaming companies are a bunch of panickers.

Rupert said:
Violence to children is a strong social taboo, it illustrates a failure of one of society's most basic functions, to protect its young from harm.
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When I hear the word 'social taboo', I reach for my Browning!
 
Black said:
How?
Uh, by putting kids in the game and letting player choose whether to kill them or not...
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I'm talking about context; are there kids running around all over the place that you can just target indiscriminately? Are they combatants? Do they try to steal stuff from you? I've never played this game, like I said, so I have no idea.

And Deus Ex never got a reputation as a child murder simulator, at least not that I've heard of, so what was the difference here?
 
You can kill a kid that's starving and he'll die soon because he has an incurable deasese.

And Deus Ex never got a reputation as a child murder simulator
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Is that so... Did Fallout get child murder simulator reputation?
 
Rupert said:
And Deus Ex never got a reputation as a child murder simulator, at least not that I've heard of, so what was the difference here?
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As far as Invisible War goes.. the section where you can start to kill children occurs in the mid-game, not something a casual gamer or Christian Fundie Political Patrol Officer would come upon easily.
 
Rupert said:
And Deus Ex never got a reputation as a child murder simulator, at least not that I've heard of, so what was the difference here?
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I think that those serial murder simulator games like Fallout or Baldur's Gate are very disturbing. After all, murder of innocent people shows a failure of society. Games shouldn't show the failure of society.

Actually, I was making a mod for Baldur's Gate 2 that provides similar protection for innocent women as is provided for innocent children.

Here's a describtion:

I think that killing innocent women is wrong and despicable. No normal person would like to murder an innocent woman. I think that there's no reason why there should be an option to ruthlessly murder innocent women in computer games.

Ability to murder innocent women is a special feature that doesn't add anything to computer games. There are a lot of computer games that don't have an option of murdering innocent women and they are as immersive as those who allow ruthless, bestial murder of innocent women.

There is a line that computer games shouldn't pass, I think that murdering innocent women is behind that line.

Can you, people imagine a situation in game, where a pretty, kind innocent woman is sitting in a restaurant, chatting with her friends and then...
And then a male comes in and swings at her with his long sword, literally cutting her in two, brain, blood and fragments of skull landing on her terrified friends and innards spilling at the floor?

I think that such situation is unacceptable in computer games.

I'm thinking about making a mod that would deal the problem of murder of innocent women like Hasbro dealt with the problem of killable children in Temple of Elemental Evil.
If somebody didn't play ToEE, I'll explain - there are a lot of unique NPCs in the main town - they have their own families, that sound like real families, which would add a lot to realism and immersion the game.
It would be bad, because murdering families is wrong.
Luckily Hasbro decided to protect us from a possiblity of murdering children of those families by removing them and now those families are childless. Sadly they didn't want to protect innocent women :( .

Those screens show a difference between a normal BG2 and my mod:
Normal Game - Bad. An option to bestially murder innocent women is available to player.

My Mod - Good - innocent women are protected from bestial murder.
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Well Sorrow, what about innocent, unarmed black people? If you allow to kill them in a computer game then that clearly is racism.
Could you make a mod that removes black people from FOs so it won't be racist game anymore?
 
You are right. This horrible racial violence must end! Fallout shouldn't be a training game for racist murderers!
 
Black said:
You can kill a kid that's starving and he'll die soon because he has an incurable deasese.
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So there's one kid in the game, and it's a specific incident? How can you compare that to a game with kids running around in the streets?

Look, you guys are strawmanning the shit out of the topic here, but I'm not even making an argument for or against it, I was just making the observation that violence against children is a big taboo that very few if any games have really broken, and I seriously doubt there will be any children in Fallout 3.

An isometric game made in 1997 with small 2D representations of kids is a far sight different from a modern first person game with 3D modeled characters.
 
And why are you ignoring Invisible War? It may have happened mid-game, but it was still a school full of innocent children that you could burn to death and watch their friends cower in terror before unloading a bullet into their small heads.
 
Rupert said:
Look, you guys are strawmanning the shit out of the topic here, but I'm not even making an argument for or against it, I was just making the observation that violence against children is a big taboo that very few if any games have really broken, and I seriously doubt there will be any children in Fallout 3.
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Perhaps more heinously, you could uncover the headmaster's plot to kill all the children, turn him in to the police, and then go kill the little fuckers anyway. Don't forget to hack the computer and enroll that sick kid in the mosque before you leave. Congrats on your enrollment, sweetie. It's going to be a very lonely school year.
 
It's beens said before, and I'll re-emphasize it. It IS alot harder to have killable children in games now then it used to be, for several reasons:

A) Anti game watchdogs are paying alot closer attention, just waiting for something to jump on.

B) Gaming is alot more mainstream then it was a few years ago, more people are looking in general.

C) A 3-D game in first person has the more "You did it" feel to observers in a blurry 2-D ISO game.

D) Being released by BethSoft, Fallout 3 is a fairly high profile game, and likely to attract more attention then Deus Ex and the old Fallouts did.

E) Even Rockstar didn't have kids (of any kind, actually) in their games. Until the perceived kings of taboo do it, no other major company is likely to go there.
 
Wow, I've missed it

So there's one kid in the game, and it's a specific incident?
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Let's see, I gave 1, one, ONE example of how you can kill kid in Deus Ex and now you're saying that there's ONE kid in the game...
What the hell?
 
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