Sexual Orientation

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by TurkeySloth, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. TurkeySloth

    TurkeySloth First time out of the vault

    5
    Oct 20, 2020
    I just started playing the game, and the one thing that baffles me thus far is black widdow and cherchez le femme being level-gated perks rather than traits. Anyone have an idea as to why Bethesda did this and left out one for bisexuals?
     
  2. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    You can be a Bisexual via Perks by simply taking both since they determine your sexuality. If you take Lady Killer and Confirmed Bachelor as a male character, you're bisexual for instance.

    Interesting point about the traits thing though. I'd argue that those traits peg your character as being particularly skilled in seduction rather than just your basic sexuality, though. Your Courier can still be heterosexual without being a Lady Killer who talks the leather armored pants off of the women of the Wasteland. Same thing for homosexuality and its respective perk. Which, IMO, marking your character as a skilled seducer is fine for Perk territory. I think they'd be a waste of a Trait slot. What would be the downside even to warrant them as traits?

    Also to give Obsidian some credit, the most statistically optimal choice is to be bi. I'd say thats a solid endorsement.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 10
  3. TurkeySloth

    TurkeySloth First time out of the vault

    5
    Oct 20, 2020
    Ah... okay. I'm going off a level 2 New Vegas playthough, so I'm not far enough along to have seleceted both. Although, having one item for a bisexual character would be much simpler.
     
  4. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    You can take both perks or just pretend you are bi. Its not like until Romance options were introduced that sexuality really mattered that much in Fallout aside from flavor and the occasional funny moment. Also, its not like being bisexual means you're even good at seduction with either sex. I for one don't understand women at all, guys, I have better luck with. And there are also straight people who could push the buttons of a not straight person the right way and not have any interest in them sexually.

    My question whenever sexuality comes into play in media, is what is the point? If its just to pander to me, then its not going to be that good anyways or in the case of Fallout 4's Romance, its just awkwardly bolted onto the game cause a lot of games have Romance mechanics these days. Its nice that I can play as Nate and seduce MacCready by lock picking crates, but what does it add to the game? From my experience not much. At least in other games, like Dragon Age, who every you romance might change the end screen. But still, I just don't see the point in romance in video games that lack a family building mechanic to go along with it.
     
  5. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    I always thought Sawyer's comments about RPG romances reducing relationships/courting into "enter coins into machine" rang very true, as did the reasoning to why there wasn't any companion romance in NV (but plenty of one night stands). I do believe there's got to be a way to handle it tactfully, though.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  6. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    You aren't worried about long term romance when you are worrying about finding your son that was kidnapped. Doh. Wrong game.
     
  7. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    Even if you look at New Vegas or 3, what would Romance even add to the game play? Vegas is the land of debauchery, so other than wanting to role play as a Mormon, there wouldn't be a point to having a spouse. And in 3, you basically are supposed to have a thing for Amata if you play as a guy and if you play as a woman....oh well? At least in Skyrim your spouse can act as a vendor and "open a store" which nets you money which is useful until you have a majority stake in the entire universe (or install mods that rebalance the economy). But its not like you can have a one night stand and the person runs up to you pregnant and demanding money. That would add some spice to the world, but not much else.
     
  8. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    31
    Nov 21, 2020
    i prefer it being perks honestly. what could be the downside of being a confirmed bachelor? or a Lady Killer? That's kind of the whole point of traits. Plus with it being a perk means i can take traits i actually like, like claustrophobia or skilled for example or even logan's loophole for chem runs.
     
  9. PlanHex

    PlanHex Legislative Senator oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    I don't see why it should be perks anyway. Mostly it's just seduction options that give you some small advantage that could be done as speech or barter instead. Or a separate Seduction skill, but that would probably be kinda useless.
    And since they mostly function like speech checks that give you some advantage like getting a guard out of the way or whatever, then there's not really a reason why they have to be strictly tied to your character's sexuality, like a strictly gay PC would never use seduction skills to get something out of a heterosexual NPC or vice versa.

    I think these are mostly just legacy of lazy Beth design. Like the thought process started with "lol let's have a perk called Ladykiller, that's funny" and everything was just built on top of that without really looking at what it all implies for the world or game logic.
     
  10. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    I think a seduction perk/skill would be useful if there was more overt espionage in Fallout games. Well more significant than "sneak here and don't get caught". If you had to say infiltrate a faction and had someone you could seduce to get information out of them or kill them in their sleep (if I remember correctly, there is a mod that lets you do that to Benny). But this would require more thought to the game than anyone has seemed to put into pretty much any game. Seduction like any game mechanic needs to have a reason for it to come up and for me to walk up to some NCR trooper and be all "hey handsome, you like these huge pecs? They can be yours if you go stand over there for 15 minutes." That isn't how things work. It would make more sense for me to go under cover at Camp McCarran and befriend someone for intel and have seduction as an option to get info out of them. But that requires writing which Todd doesn't care about, beyond the "hey look at my muscles" thing.
     
  11. John Cassidy Joestar

    John Cassidy Joestar First time out of the vault

    14
    Aug 22, 2017
    In the word of Chris Avelonne who was against the notion of Romance in RPG with big scales or world ending threats, its more a matter of context where two characters met.
    For Chris, having the Courier falling in love or getting a relationship in a crisis like the Mojave front will be the seed for a toxic relationship.
     
  12. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013

    It's a fair point but by that logic most people in the Wasteland are pairing up in those kind of circumstances. It'd be pretty normalized in the world of Fallout to hook up with fellow heavily armed vagrants.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  13. John Cassidy Joestar

    John Cassidy Joestar First time out of the vault

    14
    Aug 22, 2017
    I don't think so, most of the characters presented in the game that are in a relationship are either old timers, farmers who lived all their lives in the Mojave and just survive day to day like in the Old West. Basically, they live their lives day to day and struggle by struggle, the Mojave crisis being an other one since the last battle of Hoover Dam. A big scale war is also way more different than living in the wastes (and arguably way more dangerous).
    Most couples in the game don't end well too, especially when the Courier is in the scene. He is litterally in a war story, there is widows left and right, broken men like Boone or that drunken wife beater who had all his family ensalved because they run away from him (bad luck and Vegas, typical). This could convince the Courier why settling down right now isn't a good idea, at least its my head-canon.

    I see no reason for Fallout 2 tho, the stakes for the game is way more low, the atmosphere and personality of the Chosen One can really be open on that. Shame romance in that game was just treated as a really good joke in Modoc. I heard they did tried to recreate that scene with Cass in FNV tho, but Chris was strongly against it.

    Edit : One could argue that if the Courier let go of his revenge against Benny and remained in Goodsprings, he/she could be happier. but we enter in fan fic territory, but I like that it remains in the theme of the game, letting go and all that. If we had a type of failed romance like in RDR 2, I think it would be more interesting than just having our self insert character loving a character we like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  14. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    Lost love is a good idea for a Courier background, but it's out of bounds I think to enforce it on the player. Lonesome Road saying "Your courier has been around New California and delievered packages before" was too much for some people.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  15. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    shits cringe.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  16. TomJ

    TomJ Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Jul 12, 2015
    I don't think Romance in RPGs is a bad thing, its just not something that is thought out when it is put into a game. For example, it wouldn't make sense for there to even be an option of Romance until after a companion's quest is completed. As to what will trigger their quest is a different matter, but Romance shouldn't be unlocked just because you aren't a complete sadist that can pick locks real good. As for seduction, there needs to be a mechanic for it, and I personally think it should fall under the category of sneak.

    Just because a relationship is in a game doesn't mean it needs to be a healthy representation of love. People get together for bad reasons all the time. Its not like people in the Fallout universe would be any different. People stay together for the kids all the time, or its too expensive to get a divorce or out of fear or codependence. Given the context of a game like Fallout, having the option for a Romance to be either healthy or unhealthy would make sense. For example, maybe being around someone makes Boone start to heal and that process leads to something or you just stay with him cause its easy or you're just using him. The point is there needs to be roles to play, not just one role.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  17. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    The player having the choice to be an abusive/toxic partner is so comically dark that it actually sounds perfect for Fallout, holy shit lol.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 5
  18. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Still Mildly Glowing

    250
    Sep 25, 2018
    A quest where you marry the companion that you kept by your side for 20 levels even though they suck and you hate them because you don't want to be alone and it would be inconvenient to find a new one.
     
  19. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    I can't even decide my orientation irl I got more things to worry about than whether my pc likes boobies or weiner.
     
  20. Eshanas

    Eshanas Vault Dweller

    741
    Jul 6, 2016
    To be fair the char thus knows the dick is a weak point and probably the arteries around it...and the same for the chicks. A bi courier can kill everyone more efficiently via carnal knowledge, it's great.

    Honestly I am a fucking whatever in real life, but I took the perks more for the damage overall. Helped in Dead Money and stuff like that with lots of human trash enemies. There weren't a lot of chances to...get to know either sex, in game, IMO. Most of it down with the NCR, right? You woo the officer behind the desk, or can talk the sniper chick who went full butch as a sort of reaction to being raped.......?

    Not a lot of...positive roleplay examples, well, the sniper chick sort of needs the help, but great crunch value. Add bloody mess and the wasteland is your oyster, literally. Nothing gets me happier than blowing some fuck to gibs with a 12 gauge to the face, or dick, some days....
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021 at 5:02 AM