Short S.T.A.L.K.E.R. interview on Eurogamer.net

Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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I know, we haven't really been following this game, and I'm a bit late, but y'know, looked nice and funny enough to post. Snipsnip:

<blockquote>Eurogamer: Tell us about the RPG elements.

Oleg Yavorsky: It's a role-playing game in as much as the player performs a certain role, where he has freedom to choose which role to play. There are no level ups but can communicate with NPCs, and shift his likes and dislikes: be on one side or another side. He can trade objects, he can exchange messages and information and he can play the role of a good guy or less good guy or bad guy or neutral guy in this way. But there won't be any level ups and experience. These will be the skills of the player that we would like to develop. His mastery of shooting, communication, exchanging objects.</blockquote>

Spotted at VDHP

Link: short interview on Eurogamer
 
Damned! Minus 10 "love points" to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Maybe it is revolutionary, but I think no. NO level-ups..its..its fucking frustrating! Then its just another action with only value - set in post-nuclear enviroment...ufffa!
Oh well, lets see what the next day will bring :/...
 
Why do you think that good RPG should have level-ups? Why your stats couldn't grow in different way than by leveling up? I'm working on Trinity and we are thinking about not using levels in our RP system. You'll increase your stat by successful using it. In this way we want to do it in Trinity, but I don't know how it'll handled in STALKER. I want to show you that good cRPG not necessarily must have level-ups :)

BTW. Kharn, why you didn't mentioned that you know Polish? ;-)
 
We all know every game is an RPG at heart, right? 'cause u paly a roel!!!!

I wonder if people are increasingly afraid that their games won't sell if they don't call it an RPG, or claim that it has RPG elements despite not really having any (or very few, and totally taken the other way around)? Its grating on my nerves.
 
Damned! Minus 10 "love points" to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Maybe it is revolutionary, but I think no. NO level-ups..its..its fucking frustrating! Then its just another action with only value - set in post-nuclear enviroment...ufffa!
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The lack of leveling up actually makes this more interesting to me. Having levels and hitpoints (especially in a first view), makes things less realistic and can motivate the player to do uncharacteristic things just to gain experience points. In some ways, experience points are hinderances to role playing as are classes and alignments. As long as you can go whereever you want to go, say what you want to say, and do what you want to do, and have these actions effect the world in different ways, then I'd say it's more a roleplaying game than anything Bioware puts out...
 
Kaczor said:
I'm working on Trinity and we are thinking about not using levels in our RP system. You'll increase your stat by successful using it.
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Then you do have leveling up. Just because it's in thousands(?) of tiny levels does not mean it isn't leveling up. It's just a gradual process rather than a more limited number of discrete levels.
I think that would be a good system, well, more realistic anyway. In real life you learn skills trough use or instruction in them. You don't "start" with any intrinsic skills (other than breathing etc.) you have to learn everything, including such simple things as walking, through practice. The more you practice, the better you get (up to a point tho', you need to be challenged to learn , even if it's only a small challenge).
Doesn't anyone else find it odd (In FO, or other RPGs) that you can get Exp. for, say, shooting a gun, and put the skill points into something else. Like shooting a gun might somehow make you a better speaker?
 
Revolver said:
The lack of leveling up actually makes this more interesting to me. Having levels and hitpoints (especially in a first view), makes things less realistic and can motivate the player to do uncharacteristic things just to gain experience points. In some ways, experience points are hinderances to role playing as are classes and alignments. As long as you can go whereever you want to go, say what you want to say, and do what you want to do, and have these actions effect the world in different ways, then I'd say it's more a roleplaying game than anything Bioware puts out...
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Playing morrowind, i dont think its more realistic having skills level up. I remember all I would do sometimes is run around bouncing up and down to boost acrobatics and athletics :-p. But aye, I've found myself to enjoy both systems so I'm excited to see how it plays out. This system is not used nearly as often as the normal leveling up one so it will be good to have more of them in the genre.
 
Yeah, I played Daggerfall, and noticed that aspect of it was well. And they still had xp and hitpoints... But I did enjoy to a certain extent (it got boring real fast though). I guess munchkinism is fun in its own right, but I'm glad to see it seperated from role playing once in a while, especially since many confuse it with role playing. But STALKER has neither right? Just action and interaction?
 
Revolver said:
But STALKER has neither right? Just action and interaction?
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Pretty much, yes. This is a copy of a post i made in some other forum regarding the same matter:

As of the last time i read the game's FAQ, it won't include any type of character creation. Which is one of the most important elements (if not the most). No kind of visible character growth, either. Just these two alone are a huge impediment to calling the game an RPG, as far as i'm concerned. As if that wasn't enough, there's also the whole concept of allowing for several viable character forms of expression. This ties in with statistical or attribute development, and their uses in allowing my character to succeed in various levels. Roleplaying opportunities, if you will - which as of now, there don't seem to be many. Specially because there are no stats determining it.

Another big factor is that the character's success should always be about the character's own abilities, not about my twitch skills. I'm playing a character, who will fail or succeed because of himself, not because of how fast i dodged shots. There is, after all, a difference between the role the player has, and the role the character has. The best i can tolerate is a cross system like Morrowind's, where it included twitch skills in one hand, but those were determined by the character's stats themselves on the other (example: the player can use twitch skills to sidestrafe and run, but the actual effectiveness of it is ruled by character's stats and skills). Of course the end result for it was bad anyway, because you should always go with one or the other, not a combination that undoes the best part of either system. STALKER, AFAIR, is using twitch skills.

There are supposed to be "roleplaying attributes" (which i'm guessing are just that, attributes, but conveniently attached to the world "roleplaying") which will act as skills which will increase in effectiveness the more you use them. While a skill system of any sort is usually inherent to an RPG, the developer's claims that it will be "under the hood" leaves me to wonder how will i know of my character's improvement. Of course, i could do like Blinkin in Mel Brooks's Robin Hood - Men in Tights, and just try and guess things.

Other things in the game are just regular elements, possible of inclusion in a multitude of genres. NPC interactions. "Dynamic" NPCs. The need to feed, drink and sleep. Day/night cycle. An inventory. Line of sight. An RPG can be an RPG with or without these, and including elements which made their way in RPGs doesn't instantly turn the game into one.

While some of the things are novel (or appear to be, anyway) for a shooter, they are elements which in themselves don't make the game an RPG. Hell, calling it a Freeform game, which appears to be the new buzzword for games which mix genres and elements, creating something new, would seem more appropriate than calling it an RPG. Its even more akin to a Survival Horror FPS in presentation than an FPS/RPG.

Or, here's a whacky thought - call it, like, i don't know, a First Person Shooter? Nah, that would be BIZARRO!
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I've yet to see something that merits calling the game an RPG in any way. But apparently, people will do it anyway, because its some sort of crime if you don't label a game wrongly simply because it has elements in common with another genre (elements which might not even define the other genre).

And by the way, Revolver, nice avatar.
 
What did you think about the Deus Ex system? I thought that was a better meld than Elder Scrolls, though it shared many of the same faults. I don't mind the reflex thing so much- I'd prefer games to be either turn based or action control oriented. I agree that 'realistic immersion' into the game world by itself does not make this a RPG, but I don't think skill/ level improvement would either. The term 'RPG' now lacks a definite meaning- or maybe it is better used as a quality rather than a classification. I guess the more differentiation of experience within the same game, the more RPGish it would be.

As for the avatar, thanks- I remember you had a Rorschach one before too. I saw this picture and thought it was too cool not to use.
 
I think Deus Ex's system got some things right, but some of them felt wrong. It was nice that my weapon effectiveness could improve by investing points into it, but sticking it into the FPS mold made it so the primary concept of relying on player twitching to handle weapons didn't worked very well. Some skills i also found to be badly handled (like environmental training and electronics), or requring a high tolerance for disbelief (increase in heavy weapon usage made it so the weapon lost its weight), but in the end, its one of those things that manages to come out fairly well, the end result being more than the flawed separate elements. A bit like Morrowind, imo.
 
Nothing too terribly wrong with this, but yea for me, Deus Ex, and moreso, System Shock 2, have VERY satisfying 'improvementation'(NEW WORD DARKUNDERLORDY!!). Having 'skills' improve is the most realistic representation of reality than merely being instantly 'better' in several things all at once in a single moment. If you continue to practice archery in real life, you gain experience and ideally 'get better' progressively, but you never reach a single point in your life where you're instantly stronger, healthier and better at pool right then and there in an instant.

Anyway, I've been constantly fighting with the 30 year old concept of PnP levels and stats, where it was necessary to approximate reality with nothing more than paper(and a pencil or pen). Defining reality came down to numbers. Early on traditional CRPG's simply adapted this formula since graphics and immersion was limited to the players imagination, with those 'numbers' being crunched by the computer. Systems like DX or SS2 offer a nice balance of controlling your characters skill growth, and seeing them translate to better performance your alter ego on the screen in a more tactile sense.

True this(Stalker) is more FPS-y without ANY skill growth, but this doesn't need to be a bad thing, as they intend to offer a more simulated envrionment, where you have more to worry about than simply ammo and health, so not so much a turn off.

Cheers
 
EvoG said:
Nothing too terribly wrong with this, but yea for me, Deus Ex, and moreso, System Shock 2, have VERY satisfying 'improvementation'(NEW WORD DARKUNDERLORDY!!). Having 'skills' improve is the most realistic representation of reality than merely being instantly 'better' in several things all at once in a single moment. If you continue to practice archery in real life, you gain experience and ideally 'get better' progressively, but you never reach a single point in your life where you're instantly stronger, healthier and better at pool right then and there in an instant.
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Deus Ex didn't had a 'skill increase by use' system. You had to earn skill points to manually improvementate :P the skills, usually by finding secret places or carrying mission objectives. Which made people often question themselves why they had to open a hidden sewer grate to get better with rifles. Morrowind, on the other hand, had this.

Anyway, I've been constantly fighting with the 30 year old concept of PnP levels and stats, where it was necessary to approximate reality with nothing more than paper(and a pencil or pen). Defining reality came down to numbers. Early on traditional CRPG's simply adapted this formula since graphics and immersion was limited to the players imagination, with those 'numbers' being crunched by the computer. Systems like DX or SS2 offer a nice balance of controlling your characters skill growth, and seeing them translate to better performance your alter ego on the screen in a more tactile sense.
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I found that Deus Ex's improvements weren't really well thought out. I could tolerate Morrowinds' combo of stat, skill and twitch, because it combined my skills, the character's skills and a certain level of feedback which made the experience overall much better.

True this(Stalker) is more FPS-y without ANY skill growth, but this doesn't need to be a bad thing, as they intend to offer a more simulated envrionment, where you have more to worry about than simply ammo and health, so not so much a turn off.
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Other things i remember the player had to worry about were radiation levels, food and water levels, and ammo. I think these elements don't nearly justify the tradeoff, though. They're likely to be included in any system you can think off, but including things like these would not justify removing core aspects of the system you're tampering with.
 
Role-Player said:
Deus Ex didn't had a 'skill increase by use' system. You had to earn skill points to manually improvementate :P the skills,
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Yea I know, thats why I grouped it in with SS2. They both based on skill growth(assigned by player of course) and not arbitrary 'leveling up'.

Role-Player said:
I found that Deus Ex's improvements weren't really well thought out. I could tolerate Morrowinds' combo of stat, skill and twitch, because it combined my skills, the character's skills and a certain level of feedback which made the experience overall much better.
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From a design standpoint they were fine. You got clear visual feedback to your improvedified character state(as you said with Morrowind, which I didn't like btw), so not sure what you feel isn't 'thought out'.

True this(Stalker) is more FPS-y without ANY skill growth, but this doesn't need to be a bad thing, as they intend to offer a more simulated envrionment, where you have more to worry about than simply ammo and health, so not so much a turn off.
Click to expand...

Role-Player said:
Other things i remember the player had to worry about were radiation levels, food and water levels, and ammo.
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Right, as I said, which is better than JUST ammo and health. With the addition of water, food and sleep, its just like real life! Oh wait, that could get dull. :( Hehe

Cheers
 
I hate to point out the completely obvious, but I'm surprised nobody has thought of this before.

That STALKER tidbit looks pretty much like part of Jagged Alliance's system revisited.
 
EvoG said:
From a design standpoint they were fine. You got clear visual feedback to your improvedified character state(as you said with Morrowind, which I didn't like btw), so not sure what you feel isn't 'thought out'.
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I was talking of how the skills were improved themselves, which i didn't liked. The problem with combining an FPS with RPG elements, in my opinion, is that ultimately one side will pale in comparison with the other. If i'm playing an FPS, its only natural my twitch skills determine my success with firearms, but in DX, i have to increase the skill, which kind of like defeats the purpose of it. The reason i tolerated it in Morrowind is because, like i said, had several things to support it, and the 'increase by use' system made it more logical and dynamic (to me, anyway).

Theres other elements like specific skill handling (such as those i pointed out to Revolver), but they're personal things.
 
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