Some odd "holes" in Fallout 3

[Foobar]

Hey All,

I recently began playing Fallout 3 and am enjoying the game greatly. I was afraid that it wouldn't live up to its predecessors and end up being another soulless Oblivion clone. Boy was I wrong!

In any case, there are a few things that nag at me:

1) This is 200 years after nuclear Armageddon and people still wear rags and sleep on dirty mattresses? I don't know about you, but even remote tribes in Africa manage to keep themselves clean. 200 years is a freaking long time, yet the game looks like the bomb went off last weak.

2) Where is the power coming from? No mater where you go, a remote hut out in the middle of the wastes, or the remains of an old subway system, there seems to be a power grid keeping machines humming and lights flickering. Is there some sort of plausible explanation for this, or is this just a bizarre oversight.

What do you all think?

 

[LogisticEarth]

1.) Beth just messed up bigtime with a realistic, 200 year-post-war environment. There's ammo, food, nuka cola, etc. EVERYWHERE. And for some reason there's craploads of chinese militar gear also. Just lack of attention to detail/laziness.

2.) Again, same thing I think, lack of attention to detail or inability to come up with enivronments that weren't powered by electricity. They needed to have computers everywhere also with the way they implemented the science skill. I found a log on one of the satelite stations up north that said something to the effect of "there are lots of old buried power lines around that are still powered, boy those pre-war people knew about engineering!". But so far, I haven't seen one functioning power plant outside of a few generators. And it takes a LOT more to get electricity to places than just "oh there's a generator, and here's some power lines, Tada!" If nobody's maintaining stuff, the substations that knock that transmission power down into useable voltages would eventually just, well, blow up when thier transformers fail.

 

[Public]

1) This is 200 years after nuclear Armageddon and people still wear rags and sleep on dirty mattresses? I don't know about you, but even remote tribes in Africa manage to keep themselves clean. 200 years is a freaking long time, yet the game looks like the bomb went off last weak.

Welcome to the show "The mysteries of Fallout 3- why the world 200 years after a nuclear holocaust, still looks like a piece of dump!? Like the war happened a week ago, or yesterday, or today just right after the tea break in England!?"

We will find out after commercials...

*crappy music playing*

 

[Gandar]

I blame "Science!"

It was "special" radiation. I won't give any spoilers, but everyone who beat the game knows what I'm talking about

 

[DexterMorgan]

2.) Again, same thing I think, lack of attention to detail or inability to come up with enivronments that weren't powered by electricity. They needed to have computers everywhere also with the way they implemented the science skill. I found a log on one of the satelite stations up north that said something to the effect of "there are lots of old buried power lines around that are still powered, boy those pre-war people knew about engineering!". But so far, I haven't seen one functioning power plant outside of a few generators. And it takes a LOT more to get electricity to places than just "oh there's a generator, and here's some power lines, Tada!" If nobody's maintaining stuff, the substations that knock that transmission power down into useable voltages would eventually just, well, blow up when thier transformers fail.

Not to mention that any and all non-hardened electrical devices would be burned out via massive induction from the EMP emitted by a large-scale nuclear explosion for hundreds of miles around ground 0. Which means that only functional computers would be found in military installations or underground bunkers protected by Faraday cages.

Bethesda excel at all types of ignorance. Complete lack of knowledge of canon, as well as nuclear explosions, which are THE fucking CENTRAL theme of Fallout games. I blame immature asshole producers.

Boy was I wrong!

No you weren't. As soon as you sink enough hours in the game, all the nagging things will get more and more numerous and, well, nagging. Just you wait, you ain't seen nothing yet

 

[Foobar]

Ya, in these respects, Fallout 1 and 2 were superior. Fallout 1 was roughly ~90 years after and we had shacks and dumpy towns. Fallout 2 was like ~150 years after, and while there were still dumpy towns, you had bigger cities springing up with actual architecture etc. Not to mention governments and other semblances of a people rising from the ashes.

Still, I really like Fallout 3 despite it's shortcomings.

 

[Public]

You can use a "spoiler" tag...

 

[Foobar]

No you weren't. As soon as you sink enough hours in the game, all the nagging things will get more and more numerous and, well, nagging. Just you wait, you ain't seen nothing yet

Well, I hope not. I am enjoying this "honeymoon" period.

Seriously, when you are out in the wasteland, just you, and your gun. It does make for some excellent visuals and immersion.

I am of the school that graphics don't make a good game, especially so in RPGs, but this games graphics do a heck of allot for it.

And as far as a Bethesda RPG, you have to admit, this is way WAY better than Oblivion. I mean, Fallout 3 has actual characters *gasp* with back stories!!! OH MY GOD!!!

I have been waiting for an RPG with that sort of thing since Baldur's Gate. Seriously, WTF, games like this are few and far between I'll take 'em as they come even if imperfect.

 

[LogisticEarth]

Bethesda excel at all types of ignorance. Complete lack of knowledge of canon, as well as nuclear explosions, which are THE fucking CENTRAL theme of Fallout games. I blame immature asshole producers.

I think this is the main source of most of FO3's problems: Immaturity among the producers and devlopers. This is why they think a "mature" game is about violence, and not complex or gritty plots or themes, etc. Even the special "Intelligence" dialogs are such a letdown. In the originals, the special dialog actually made some sense. It wasn't perfect, but it made SOME sense. In FO3 the Intelligent dialog is either "Captian Obvious" statements, or s cobbled together mix of made-up "big words" that make no sense whatsoever.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Well, I hope not. I am enjoying this "honeymoon" period.

Seriously, when you are out in the wasteland, just you, and your gun. It does make for some excellent visuals and immersion.

...

And as far as a Bethesda RPG, you have to admit, this is way WAY better than Oblivion. I mean, Fallout 3 has actual characters *gasp* with back stories!!! OH MY GOD!!!

I have been waiting for an RPG with that sort of thing since Baldur's Gate. Seriously, WTF, games like this are few and far between I'll take 'em as they come even if imperfect.

Enjoy it while it lasts dude, enjoy it while it lasts.

Visuals you get used to fairly quickly, and once the OMG effect wears off you realize that exploration is ultimately unrewarding, as all those dungeon crawls almost never yield an item or a piece of information of any interest.

Also, all the locations you can discover are disjointed and pointless, as they very very rarely tie into any quest or line of conversation you can have with any NPC.

NPC's seem to have back stories, yes, but most of them are rather poorly done, and conversation options, i.e. the ways you can interact with them are very limited and do not suit a wide variety of RPG player builds, like they do in original Fallouts, or other notable RPG games. Heck, I remember some joker over on bethsoft forums arguing for first person perspective over ISO because he "doesn't like playing with dolls". This is exactly the feeling I get out of Fallout 3 characters. Dull and soulless, with very few notable exceptions.

Don't rush into stacking this game with the greats, you'll regret it later. It may be much better compared to Oblivion, but Oblivion is utter shite after all.

 

[Gandar]

Bethesda excel at all types of ignorance. Complete lack of knowledge of canon, as well as nuclear explosions, which are THE fucking CENTRAL theme of Fallout games. I blame immature asshole producers.

I think this is the main source of most of FO3's problems: Immaturity among the producers and devlopers. This is why they think a "mature" game is about violence, and not complex or gritty plots or themes, etc. Even the special "Intelligence" dialogs are such a letdown. In the originals, the special dialog actually made some sense. It wasn't perfect, but it made SOME sense. In FO3 the Intelligent dialog is either "Captian Obvious" statements, or s cobbled together mix of made-up "big words" that make no sense whatsoever.

This guy nailed it on the head. Aside from some of the game mechanics changes, the big change from FO1,2 to FO3 was the limited in depth RPG elements. The best example of this is the ending, which without giving any spoilers, pretty much forces you into only two real choices. Somehow it glazes over the blatantly obvious third choice of your mutant friend

 

[Foobar]

Well, I hope not. I am enjoying this "honeymoon" period.

Seriously, when you are out in the wasteland, just you, and your gun. It does make for some excellent visuals and immersion.

...

And as far as a Bethesda RPG, you have to admit, this is way WAY better than Oblivion. I mean, Fallout 3 has actual characters *gasp* with back stories!!! OH MY GOD!!!

I have been waiting for an RPG with that sort of thing since Baldur's Gate. Seriously, WTF, games like this are few and far between I'll take 'em as they come even if imperfect.

Enjoy it while it lasts dude, enjoy it while it lasts.

Visuals you get used to fairly quickly, and once the OMG effect wears off you realize that exploration is ultimately unrewarding, as all those dungeon crawls almost never yield an item or a piece of information of any interest.

Also, all the locations you can discover are disjointed and pointless, as they very very rarely tie into any quest or line of conversation you can have with any NPC.

NPC's seem to have back stories, yes, but most of them are rather poorly done, and conversation options, i.e. the ways you can interact with them is very limited and does not suit a wide variety of RPG player builds, like they do in original Fallouts, or other notable RPG games. Heck, I remember some joker over on bethsoft forums arguing for first person perspective over ISO because he "doesn't like playing with dolls". This is exactly the filing I get out of Fallout 3 characters. Dull and soulless, with very few notable exceptions.

Don't rush into stacking this game with the greats, you'll regret it later. It may be much better compared to Oblivion, but Oblivion is utter shite after all.

Ya, one thing that threw me for a loop was how you can completely throw out Charisma and Endurance to min/max your character as those skills are pretty much useless in the game. You can't really play a bard/thief type character like you could in F1-F2. The older games let you talk your way through prolly 90% of the game.

Barter is also pretty useless as there is such a huge glut of junk you can sell/trade. so ya, lot's of flaws in this respect as well. Certainly not one of the greats as you say LOL

 

[Buxbaum666]

Not to mention that any and all non-hardened electrical devices would be burned out via massive induction from the EMP emitted by a large-scale nuclear explosion for hundreds of miles around ground 0. Which means that only functional computers would be found in military installations or underground bunkers protected by Faraday cages.

Bethesda excel at all types of ignorance. Complete lack of knowledge of canon, as well as nuclear explosions, which are THE fucking CENTRAL theme of Fallout games. I blame immature asshole producers.

Check your facts before accusing others of ignorance. You'll look like an idiot otherwise. Seriously, you don't seem to know much about the canon yourself. In the 1950ies retro-futuristic world of Fallout, semiconductor technology like transistors never happened. Thus, electronics in the fallout universe work with vacuum tubes, which, amongst others, have the advantage of not being affected by EMP at all.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Check your facts before accusing others of ignorance. Seriously, you don't seem to know much about the canon yourself. In the 1950ies retro-futuristic world of Fallout, semiconductor technology like transistors never happened. Thus, electronics work with vacuum tubes which have the advantage of not being affected by EMP at all.

In fallout cannon, you're right. However, judging by the size of computers in FINO they do not operate on vacuum tubes, as they're all rather compact, like early IBM or Mac PCs, which are entirely dependent on transistors. So, canon rape either way. I know my facts

 

[LogisticEarth]

Thus, electronics work with vacuum tubes which have the advantage of not being affected by EMP at all.

Vaccum tubes, however, are notoriously fickle and burn out fairly frequently, just like lightbulbs. A non-maintained vaccum tube computer would burn out well before the storyline comes along. And regardless of EMP effects, it still doesn't explain why every local corner store has a working, powered computer that's ususally attached to an electronic safe for some reason, and is still powered, functional, apparantly turned on and untouched for 200 years, etc.

 

[Foobar]

Not to mention that any and all non-hardened electrical devices would be burned out via massive induction from the EMP emitted by a large-scale nuclear explosion for hundreds of miles around ground 0. Which means that only functional computers would be found in military installations or underground bunkers protected by Faraday cages.

Bethesda excel at all types of ignorance. Complete lack of knowledge of canon, as well as nuclear explosions, which are THE fucking CENTRAL theme of Fallout games. I blame immature asshole producers.

Check your facts before accusing others of ignorance. You'll look like an idiot otherwise. Seriously, you don't seem to know much about the canon yourself. In the 1950ies retro-futuristic world of Fallout, semiconductor technology like transistors never happened. Thus, electronics in the fallout universe work with vacuum tubes, which, amongst others, have the advantage of not being affected by EMP at all.

Except that the computers featured in the game are clearly not vacume-tube machines. They look like like Apple IIe's.

 

[LogisticEarth]

Except that the computers featured in the game are clearly not vacume-tube machines. They look like like Apple IIe's.

I think that maybe the new computers are powered by TNT or something, given how some of them will spark for a second then explode and deal out grenade-like damage.

 

[Buxbaum666]

I think the computers you use are mere terminals connected to a mainframe somewhere. I think that makes sense as many will tell you they have no connection to some server or something. I admit they are a little too compact, though.

Vaccum tubes, however, are notoriously fickle and burn out fairly frequently, just like lightbulbs. A non-maintained vaccum tube computer would burn out well before the storyline comes along. And regardless of EMP effects, it still doesn't explain why every local corner store has a working, powered computer that's ususally attached to an electronic safe for some reason, and is still powered, functional, apparantly turned on and untouched for 200 years, etc.

Yes, that's true and I'm not saying that Bethesda is totally plausible. The availability of computer terminals in Fallout 3 is ridiculous. The only places you would find working computers in the original games would be vaults or other high-tech places.

I don't like the hacking minigame anyway, I just save and reload until I find the right password by random clicking.

 

[Zaru]

(...)it still doesn't explain why every local corner store has a working, powered computer that's ususally attached to an electronic safe for some reason, and is still powered, functional, apparantly turned on and untouched for 200 years, etc.

Heh, and I for the very first few hours of game play, when discovered one of those shop terminals, thought that the fact such terminal is here means it must contain a very valuable information or some clues of not yet discovered quest. That was before I ran on hundred of them in every shop I explored and opened another hundred of safes that were connected to them. So fucking absurd.

 

[ScottXeno]

Except that the computers featured in the game are clearly not vacume-tube machines. They look like like Apple IIe's.

And run on batteries with an infinite power source. In Fallout 1 and 2, I could understand the computers found in the Vault's, that worked, and the ones found in the military bases, in the BoS HQ, in Vault City, anywhere where there was a power source that was still generating energy. But in Fallout 3 there are some pretty far fetched situations concerning the computers. In a Supermarket? In some blown out office building? In the German Town Police HQ, there was a computer sitting outside the building that still worked. It was running off of what looked to be a car battery, and there are many just like it littered all over the game, running off of car batteries. Lights running off of car batteries, as well. It is like so many things in this game, 200 years after the apocalypse humanity powers itself off of the infinite number of CAR BATTERIES just laying around. You know, the cars that you can still shoot enough times to make them EXPLODE somehow.