Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick; You Will Go Far

c0ldst33ltrs4u

Vault Dweller
I ask one thing: What happened with the "Speak softly" part?
http://www.politis.fr/article470.html link to a french article, biased in some ways, but can you show me totaly unbiased ones? Look well before you cast your stones for we all are not as righteous as we like to think.
and another one:
http://www.counterpunch.org/davis1123.html
interesting bits from it:
The proverb is now out of date, at least in foreign policy circles, as the United States sees no need to talk softly, although it still talks behind the scenes. The saying might be changed to "Yell as much as you want, and whack a few countries whenever you feel like it." And we feel like it. As Frank Bardacke wrote recently in Counterpunch, it's now a naked empire.
Speaking softly is now passé.
Is speaking softly obsolete or is it that we just don't know how to do it anymore? Is shouting really the way to go, along with wildly swinging a big stick? Is it not that the stick was just for show at first?
Discuss
 
Well, it would be good to keep in mind that Teddy Roosevelt never followed the "Speak Softly" part himself - though I do agree that, as far as I can tell from the little reading I've done, the US has gotten worse and worse at foreign relations as time goes on. Too many presidents that think they're the cowboys of christ hasn't helped the matter much either.
 
Ugh...must you ask? Comparing us now, to early 1900's and there is a big damn difference. "Yesterday" teachers were being prisoned for teaching evolution, "today" teachers are being fired for teaching religion. "Yesterday" we were very, very, very, conservative, "today" we tend to keep the conservative side, but with a bit of liberalism. And the obvious "yesterday" we were just another country..."today" we are the world's only superpower. Times have very much changed. It would be considered treason if the media reported any bad news during times of conflict back then, today, well just watch the damn news to see my point. Power and wealth corrupt. But there can be a few exceptions, I'm still waiting for that "right" president to come along one day. Just watch, it will happen sometime. Of course, we will have our own Nero as well I guess.
 
Of course, we will have our own Nero as well I guess.
Good thing about a Phoenix: it always rises from the ashes.
Bad thing about a Phoenix: it has to burn before it can be reborn.
In other words: a "renaissance" would be good, but it will most likely hurt... badly as all changes do.
The more specific thing I was asking is: do you think that America could reach it's goals just by speaking softly (or at least in most cases) and keeping the stick just as a deterrent, instead of mauling everyone with it?
 
Okay.

We've invaded two countries, gone on countless sorties against them, and are waging a war on all fronts against terrorism. And they hate us more then ever. Nope. We tried that, it led to WW2 and a Mid East filled with more fundementalists then the Passion of the Christ's screaning in Birmingham, Alabhama.
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
Okay.

We've invaded two countries, gone on countless sorties against them, and are waging a war on all fronts against terrorism. And they hate us more then ever. Nope. We tried that, it led to WW2 and a Mid East filled with more fundementalists then the Passion of the Christ's screaning in Birmingham, Alabhama.

We need a bigger stick...
 
We need a bigger stick...
This may be wrong but i think the stick shrinks when used. What I mean is: the stick works fine when dealing with something comparable in size, say a dog, but when used to swat things that are too small like flies it fails miserably and you exhaust yourself swatting away. Let's face it: the army is a broad sword, not a scalpel, you can use it to cut a man in half, yet you can't use it to make just a small incision. To get to the point: what the USA needs is a scalpel, something delicate, that can safely remove just the tumor, not kill the patient. Plus when the patient sees the sword he freaks out and runs like hell, now that is not the way to operate! the way I see it the closest thing to a scalpel the USA has is the CIA, or the FBI, but what are they up to? That and diplomacy, forget not that the pen is mightier than the sword. I'm not saying that any problem can be solved by talking, but if there are chances that some talks would do more good than fighting, the talk you should. And the stick should be kept as the very last resort, not the universal problem solver. The key word here would be balance: a balance between soft words and big sticks.
 
Interesting topic.

Ideally, the scalpel you elude to wouldn't have anything to do with the US. There are too many ramifications that come attached to military force projected from Washington. Even an entity such as NATO has too many connotations attached to fulfill the requirements of a scalpel force. The scalpel should appear to not be wielded by a single nation or power block whose own self interests get mixed in with the (hopefully) humanitarian and democratic goals that the scalpel is trying to bring about.

If you haven't caught on already, I'm alluding to something like what the UN should be able to do. However, most here agree that the UN cannot accomplish this goal in its current incarnation.

Maybe your phoenix event c0ldst33ltrs4u refers to should happen to the UN, not the US?
 
Paladin Solo said:
Of course, we will have our own Nero as well I guess.
And Caligula and Commodus as well i dread, what i hope you get is an Augustus or maybe an Marcus Aurelius.
 
Loxley said:
Paladin Solo said:
Of course, we will have our own Nero as well I guess.
And Caligula and Commodus as well i dread, what i hope you get is an Augustus or maybe an Marcus Aurelius.

Can I settle for a Ceasar? :wink:

It is true that hitting a small bug with a stick is hard, especially when there are so many rules on how, where, and when you can swing your stick. Just chuck the rules and swing the damn stick already! :twisted:
 
I still say that the people should appoint me supreme ruler...
It would solve a lot of the fighting, especially since everyone will have to agree to appoint me.
 
The problem with power is that, once used, it's usually wasted.

Power exists in two forms. In action but also in potential. Potential power, the threat of power for instance, is often stronger than the actual use.

In that sense I kind of agree. The more the US is willing to use violence or coercive means, the more it seems to have lost it's power edge.

The walk softly- tread light in the world and if you speak softly, make sure people here you. Don't demand too much but make sure that your demands are understood and accommodated, at least to some extent.

The Big stick is often more effective when it's held back then when it's applied. It also conserves your strength so that you use it when you must and when you do, you use it well.

This Iraqi problem is beginning to show the limits of US power which might be detrimental in the long-term. The US is showing strains at policing a conquered state. In contrast, the success of the Gulf War 1 sent out a signal around much of the world, that the US had the military power to easily crush most any second rate power in a few days.
 
Of course, at that time, the military wasnt understrength, and trying to deal with several things at once.
 
Elissar said:
Of course, at that time, the military wasnt understrength, and trying to deal with several things at once.

<center>
_40120899_iraq_pow_abuse116_ap.jpg


_40120901_iraq_pow_abuse117_ap.jpg


_40134441_iraq_pow_abuse131_ap.jpg


_40120905_iraq_pow_abuse123_ap.jpg


</center>

Really??? Some people there lost their heads.... literally.
 
You dont think i know that? A good friend of mine, a man i knew since AIT, died there. Shrapnel took his life.

And the pictures of a few Iraqi POW's being humiliated? Forget that shit. They've done that and worse to their prisoners.

You expect me to feel any sympathy? Because a few people got their feelings hurt? Bah, screw that.
 
And the pictures of a few Iraqi POW's being humiliated? Forget that shit. They've done that and worse to their prisoners.
Yet that does not make it any better. In case you hadn't noticed, you were there to protect the "modern" morals and ways of life. Violating them does not, in any way, help.

You expect me to feel any sympathy? Because a few people got their feelings hurt? Bah, screw that.
I wonder whether you would speak the same way if a friend of yours had been a prisoner there.
 
Yet that does not make it any better. In case you hadn't noticed, you were there to protect the "modern" morals and ways of life. Violating them does not, in any way, help.
I largely agree with you here. But my main quarrel was not with the way the prisoners are handeled (torture in this situation is often warrented). It's the fact that it was here, it's the fact that 90% of the people in this prison where innocent, it's the fact that these fuckwits took pictures................

I wonder whether you would speak the same way if a friend of yours had been a prisoner there.
How would you feel about the war in Iraq if your grandfather died in a Baathist prison? How would you feel about the war on terror if your girlfriend died on 9/11? That's a strange standard, Sander, you should know that.
 
If you haven't caught on already, I'm alluding to something like what the UN should be able to do. However, most here agree that the UN cannot accomplish this goal in its current incarnation.

Maybe your phoenix event c0ldst33ltrs4u refers to should happen to the UN, not the US?
@ Murdoch:
The UN could use such a revival, but this is where the shit hits the proverbial fan: what if by burning it down you cause much more trouble than it is worth it?
And even if you could rebuild it without causing additional problems, like disrupting aid programs and peace keeping actions, there is one more problem: MONEY
It all comes down to the almighty buck, and where you get it from. Money do have a lasting scent, and if an organization is funded by a certain person/organization/country then everyone will think that that organization will serve the interest of whomever gave it the money. The question here would be: what neutral source of money could be used to fund the new UN? Where would you get the scent-free money? Because without it nothing would be solved, even if the "new UN" would do what it is supposed to do and for once be the scalpel that everyone needs.

@Executioner:
Just chuck the rules and swing the damn stick already!
That got the USA in this in the first place, plus sticks do well at breaking things, not fixing them. I know that you were joking, but many people really think that way, and even sadder, they act that way. That has got to stop!
@Welsh:
In contrast, the success of the Gulf War 1 sent out a signal around much of the world, that the US had the military power to easily crush most any second rate power in a few days.
True, true. Perhaps then Saddam should have been dealt with, because by letting him live he was made to belive that he had won. I might be wrong but fields need to be weeded early or they will be overrun. But there is one drawback of this small demonstration of strength: perhaps the US began to think of the army as the universal crisis solver, and perhaps long for more military victories...

As for the tortured prisoners... if the US points to Iraq and screams evil, the turns around and does the same thing that Iraq did is it not logical for their credibility to turn to shit? Who would belive a two faced no good hypocrite?
Damn... what I am about to say may earn me a lot of resentments but here goes:
There was 9/11, there were casualties in the war, but because the US poses as the righteous one here they should suck it in, they should not be vengeful, but merciful and tolerant. Let us not forget that those "tactical bombings" did plenty of collateral damage, so these people have also been hurt a lot, they are grieving, they are outraged and lust for vengeance. They no longer see the US as liberators (I wonder if they ever really did), but as tyrants, and worst of all tyrants that are bent on changing most of the rules and standards they have used their whole lives. So I belive it is only normal for these people to be bitter in the least, or aggressive whenever they get a chance. If Bush is such a devout Christian why does he not turn the other cheek?
 
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"

you speak softly so that the person you are talking to will not become suspicious, and when he turnes to leave you wack em in the back of the head.

as to the remarks about turning theh other cheek to the 9/11 bombings, ignorance must be bliss; if you had a sister and she was raped by a thug, even if you were a "devout Christian" you would still want to kill the bastered with your bare hands would you not?
 
Back
Top