Staying true to Fallout

[Odin]

Accusations of trolling? Is that an implied threat? Banning people because they don't agree with you is kind of like walking into the bar and picking on the smallest guy there. It shouts "Look world! I have tiny genitals!"

Wow, someone gets offended real quick.. Had you actually bothered to read his post and come with counter arguments I wouldn't have pegged you as trolling, but since you evidently couldn't grasp that I must give you a warning. Next time you try this, it's boot camp..

 

[APTYP]

No, you'll be banned for stirring up shit.

 

[Brutulf]

On a related note, I reported your post. Your presence annoys me.

Sorry for being off-topic, but how do you report a post? Is there a buttons somwhere (like in some other forums) that I have missed, or do you just use an old-fashioned PM?

 

[Murdoch]

Exclamation mark, top far right of the post. Far to the right...seems an appropriate place for that function. 8)

 

[Frog]

We must remember that Fallout was not great because ot was isometric, so not-isometric does not need to suck

I would ban you for that. Well, if you didn't have more than 10 posts anyway.

blah blah blah

Bull. You registered merely to bitch at us, you have no interest in "being part of the community" so why should your presence be tolerated?
On a related note, I reported your post. Your presence annoys me.

Sorry for offtopic but I couldn't hold myself from responding.
Claw, do you judge people only by their post counters ? Don't be surprised if someone will judge you in the same way. Being part of the community is not about showing new comers how low their post counters are and how they suck because of this.
I don't intend to offend you but saying things like "On a related note, I reported your post. Your presence annoys me" or "I would ban you for that." makes me think you're frustrated in some way so you flame others to feel better. It's just behavior of 10 year old kid who is picking on his 5 year old siblings because mum didn't buy him new toy.




Offtopic follow up.
Well, I would solve it in more civil way than Bor did. Still I can see, or I guess I see the reasons why he's upset.






Ok, so back to the topic ..... more or less.
I've played Might and Magic 8 recently, more out of curiosity than anything else ....... according to today's standards it sucked but had that teal time pause option, and whats more it was in first person perspective. Experiencing this way of combat wasn't that painful but it was painful afterall.
Sure it had big flaws like moving around in pause based combat. For example in real time it was possible to dodge arrows and spells when in pause mode they were always hitting the targets. ( i remember how it was solved in games like baldurs gates. there was check if it's a hit or not just after action >shooting at someone< took place, then arrow just homed on target. i still have in my mind some hilarious situation in baldurs gates when i could sprint around house running away ( with boost of speed and under haste that is ) from thrawed axe for few minuses, then i got bored. and i guess it's reason why in next games speed of missiles was accelerated )
Anyways, in that realtime pause mode it wasn't too much space for strategy. It was hard to judge what's going on if player was in the middle of crowd. As someone pointed before ( i'm too lazy to find it now ) casting spells bring some another dimension but in toe to toe fight all was reduced who has the better punch.
About moving. It wasn't THAT bad, but it was hard to judge if player can reach enemy in his move or will enemy reach player. Besides there was no potion to move particular party members so everyone moved in pack ..... sweet fireball target. But I guess it was compromise. I think controlling all characters separately would bring some strategy factor but it would be pain in the ass in a long run. In real time it would be just imposable to play and in pause mode it would easy confuse player because of all switching between different points of view all the time new character is about making it's move. Of course there could be one player and team of npcs but at the time game was created ai would suck too much.
apart from combat situations it's quite easy to overlook things in first person perspective. Not only pickable and usable objects ( these could be highlighted in some way ) but also clear paths of movement and so on can be not obvious in that perspective.
So it's small example of game in fist person perspective with real time pause option. Yeah, it's not too bright example but I know only this one ( and my bad english doesn't help expressing my thoughts either ) but since others are considering what if F3 will have FPP looks I thought I'll share with my experience for these who wonder how it could be done.

Shit, this post got bigger than I thought. So to finish it, I'd like to see game where it's characters stats that determine his success or failure in combat and non combat action, not players dexterity with mouse and keyboard. Real time can't guarantee that and first person perspective limits it.
Just final thoghts about real time with pause vs turn based. From multiplayer's point of view real time with pause could only be degraded to plain realtime ( unless everyone had a pause option which would suck even more ) while turnbased play loose nothing.

 

[laggerific]

The best implementation of a FP TB system, in my view, was Wizardry 8, but then again that was done by people with a passion and dedicated to creating a living world...

You could look around all you wanted to no penalty, which helped you get oriented during battles.

That said, I do not advocate the FP as someone who loves 2D style gaming, I think these oldschool systems are being abandoned far too quickly, as they do have relevance in certain areas...Fallout being one of them.

 

[Roshambo]

I love it when someone posts their own uneducated opinion as fact. Just because you don't understand game mechanics or design aspects to really understand what they are called and why, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It doesn't mean that Baldur's Gate is turn-based, either.

Blah blah blah. I have a big ego and I'm much smarter than everyone else. Blah blah blah. Did I miss an argument buried somewhere in the abuse?

Abuse? No, I just pointed out the fact that you seem to be either wholly ignorant as to how game mechanics are defined in development usage or you're trolling. Considering that you said Fallout has "real time" combat, that points to one conclusion. Two, if you want to continue the "abuse" claim, since it is obvious that you're going to take a claim of your ignorance as abuse, then I will give you what you're apparently looking for.

Yes, you are an idiot. It's also funny that you claim abuse, when I was exceptionally nice to some ignorant/trolling twatwaffle.

Where is the agreed upon list of terms and definitions then smart guy?

It's not my fault you're too inbred to work a search engine and then expect me to correct your shortcomings. I'm not your babysitter nor teacher, McMoron. In fact, prove you're not a waste of taxpayer dollars and learn how to educate yourself. It's part of childhood development, one your parents also obviously failed in. First, you're taught what to do, even if you don't understand the reasoning behing it. Schooling teaches you material in background, but later also teaches you how to teach yourself and learn about subjects before you make yourself look like a complete fuckwit like you have.

Actually I mentioned those games simply because others were debating if it could be done. I in no way advocate the scheme. Reading more into it than that, along with the obligatory "I'm smart and you're ignorant" put down, is a problem with you not me.

No, people DID know how it is done back then, but are dismissing the square movement grid because that could hardly be accepted in today's market.

About the only relevant examples after that might be later Wizardry and the later Might & Magic, but someone already has posted about that subject (and exact titles), in this same forum, by the same fucking poster, long before your clueless self showed up. You rude, inbred little shit. You didn't even bother to read the discussions before you posted your idiocy. Therefore, it is clear you're only here to troll.

I'm not the one ripping others for not using the language the way I think they should. Saying "BG is not the kind of turn based we want" is fairer and more productive than saying "BG isn't turn based idiot."

No, it's still incorrect since BG isn't turn-based. Moron.

And it avoids semantics altogether. Accusations of trolling? Is that an implied threat? Banning people because they don't agree with you is kind of like walking into the bar and picking on the smallest guy there. It shouts "Look world! I have tiny genitals!"

Bullshit, kid. It's not my fault you're a complete idiot because you have little understanding of the subject and want to argue about it.

 

[PsychoSniper]

::aplauds::

Bravo Rosh.

 

[Claw]

Claw, do you judge people only by their post counters ? Don't be surprised if someone will judge you in the same way. Being part of the community is not about showing new comers how low their post counters are and how they suck because of this.

Nice way to miss my point.
For one, it's not only what you do, but also how. Someone can criticise without bitching, and you can get a reasonable reply, or you can be condescending towards strangers and find they don't want you to be around.
I can very well judge an individual without making a generalizing statement about a large group of people at the same time, and that's all I did; the rest is your far-flung interpretation.
If you don't trust my ability to make that judgement, well duh. I give a damn about your opinion or your postcount.

As far as judging someone by postcount goes, if someone has a higher postcount that usually means that person has been tolerated for a while. That doesn't mean I respect their opinion more, but I might be more lenient before I call someone a troll.

And you know what? Being a member of a community does count. It always does. If you introduce youtself by behaving like an ass, you generally aren't welcome. That doesn't mean members have the "right" to misbehave, they just have a greater chance to be forgiven.

Did I mention how bor sucks because of the utter bullshit he wrote, not his postcount?
As for cloot AKA PiP, my remark was at least partly in jest. I am however a bit touchy on the subject since it's the favourite argument of trolls who butt into a debate to show off their wisdom because everyone knows "hardcore fans" are such ignorant, shortsighted idiots. I just can't head "it's not what made Fallout great" any longer.

I didn't even have to justify myself at all, but I felt like it. I won't debate this, though.

 

[Frog]

Hmmm, enough for me I guess.

 

[cloot AKA PiP]

Claw wrote:

cloot AKA PiP wrote:

We must remember that Fallout was not great because ot was isometric, so not-isometric does not need to suck

I would ban you for that. Well, if you didn't have more than 10 posts anyway.

I'd say you were cerebrally challanged for this. At least partly in jest of course.

@Ratty: I guess some people are so crazy about perspective since it's one of the (very) few features of F1&2 they can tell, hence they feel an urge to yap about it.
I'd rather have a great 3D-3PP Fallout than a crappy isometric Fallout.

@Frog: thanks for saying things that need to be said sometimes.

As regards perspective, do you folks remember games like Dungeon Master? The Eye of the Beholder? Ultima Underworld? Betrayal at Krondor? Anvil of Dawn?

@ Pope Viper (sorry for off-topic): I used to have this F3 avatar at DAC. I feel robbed, batsard. Well a wee bit at least.

 

[Pope Viper]

@ Pope Viper (sorry for off-topic): I used to have this F3 avatar at DAC. I feel robbed, batsard. Well a wee bit at least.

Hey guy, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

Just a temp, until I can get my own av worked up.

 

[Roshambo]

As regards perspective, do you folks remember games like Dungeon Master? The Eye of the Beholder? Ultima Underworld? Betrayal at Krondor? Anvil of Dawn?

I love this kind of vacuous reasoning. It cannot be taken seriously by any means. It gives no regard to the other aspects of the games, only that they did well and therefore it's good for everything.

You have a brilliany career working for Interplay's marketing dept. someday...

To bring up the OTHER gaping hole in your point, Betrayal at Antara.

 

[cloot AKA PiP]

I love this kind of vacuous reasoning.

this bit was no reasoniing at all... was it?

It cannot be taken seriously by any means.

Ditto. As reasoning. 'Twas merely a nostalgic line. Sorry for stirring up your emotions

It gives no regard to the other aspects of the games, only that they did well and therefore it's good for everything.

Aren't we grtting too serious?

You have a brilliany career working for Interplay's marketing dept. someday...

were it not for their financial situation, I'd say I were flattered.

To bring up the OTHER gaping hole in your point, Betrayal at Antara.

Frankly, I don't get this one - ArE I StooPid? Mebbbe my Engrish ain't that good? Dunno. What's wrong with "Betrayal at Krondor"? And why are you so enthusiastic bout bringing out gaping holes? C'mon man, take it easy. You want to fuck me up just because I got a lil bit sentimental and mentioned some game titles with no further elaboration on the issue? pleez...

 

[Per]

As regards perspective, do you folks remember games like Dungeon Master? The Eye of the Beholder? Ultima Underworld? Betrayal at Krondor? Anvil of Dawn?

You want to fuck me up just because I got a lil bit sentimental and mentioned some game titles

I think Fallout 3 should be made into a toy train simulator. It'd be great.

There's nothing wrong with toy train simulators! Don't you guys remember titles like Civilization, Gribbly's Day Out and Pac Man?

What do you mean those are not toy train simulators? I was just pointing out they're great games is all!

What's wrong with you people?

(Meanwhile, in the reality next door)

Oh no, I'm a moronic troll. I better stop wasting everyone's time with stuff that makes no sense.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

Q: Fallout 2 was rated 15+ (not for immature audience) - will this trend continue with Fallout 3?
A: It's going to be a mature game, that's always been the plan.

Finally some good news.

since KOTOR blew people away last year and FF has a very large and loyal following.

I`ve been saying that about FF for years, but the KOTOR reference gave me the creeps. For anyone interested in knowing why KOTOR ISN`T turnbased i sugest this article, it will make some concepts more clear
http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=21

Thanks for the link, that was very good reading and I will use that in some of my posts when posting about Turn-Based and Fallout 3.

 

[Roshambo]

Ditto. As reasoning. 'Twas merely a nostalgic line. Sorry for stirring up your emotions

Well, an admitted trolling with material that has no relevance to the subject. Being insolent about what you receive in return for that is pure denial or chuckleheaded attention whoring.

Aren't we grtting too serious?

Apparently, you're just posting to see your post count increase or something, as you don't care to have any relevance to the subject.

You have a brilliany career working for Interplay's marketing dept. someday...

were it not for their financial situation, I'd say I were flattered.

Why? It has got to pay better than fast food, in which I see a brilliant lifetime career in store for you.

To bring up the OTHER gaping hole in your point, Betrayal at Antara.

Frankly, I don't get this one - ArE I StooPid? Mebbbe my Engrish ain't that good? Dunno. What's wrong with "Betrayal at Krondor"?

Now you prove again you have little idea of the subject matter. Here, you post some examples of something irrelevant, and then you completely miss the parallel.

And why are you so enthusiastic bout bringing out gaping holes?

I don't know what reality you're living in, child, but when someone spouts something completely irrelevant or incoherent to the subject matter, and with no regard to the topic as discussed before, then they are useless in the discussion.

C'mon man, take it easy. You want to fuck me up just because I got a lil bit sentimental and mentioned some game titles with no further elaboration on the issue? pleez...

No, because you're posting useless bullshit, flamebaiting, and giving me an attitude about it, you can leave these forums now, kid.

 

[Claw]

Looks like Roshambo isn't even partly jesting.

 

[DarkCorp]

All I can say is that KOTOR combat isn't something I would like to see in F3.

In KOTOR, regardless of who saw who first, both sides attack at the same time and that is bullshit. That means I can shoot a rocket at a group of super mutants but at the same time they joyfully minigun me down.