Tale of Two Wastelands 3.2 release

[Norzan]

Can't really choose to ignore anything in the intro when the game doesn't want to. Also, that's just a ridiculous thing to do in the first place.

Genuine question, not trying to be facetious: realistically, what can be fixed? Obviously rerecording dialogue is out of the question unless it's entirely redone, but audio and lines can be spliced to remove things spoken by characters. Is Fallout 3's opening hard-coded? Can the whole "child in a Vault" sequence be disregarded, and start with you just trying to escape the Vault? Can every reference to James being your dad be removed? Those two changes alone at least give you the freedom to determine a few things about your character on your own, even if you're still tied to Vault 101. What else could be modded to improve FO3's plot?

The intro and the backstory in the vault is so hardcoded that is pretty much impossible to mod something to change it. The rest of the game makes sure that the crap that happened in the intro actually happened.

At best you have a mod to completely skip the intro but like i said, the rest of the game still acknowledges that it happened.

 

[sesom]

Genuine question, not trying to be facetious: realistically, what can be fixed? Obviously rerecording dialogue is out of the question unless it's entirely redone, but audio and lines can be spliced to remove things spoken by characters. Is Fallout 3's opening hard-coded? Can the whole "child in a Vault" sequence be disregarded, and start with you just trying to escape the Vault? Can every reference to James being your dad be removed? Those two changes alone at least give you the freedom to determine a few things about your character on your own, even if you're still tied to Vault 101. What else could be modded to improve FO3's plot?

Sorry Norzan your information isn't correct.

The quest with which the games start is called CG00 (VCG00 in NV) and yes you can make a mod to completely skip it, if you want to have the random encounters and the revisit in Vault 101 in your main game then you have to set some questvariables but it isn't complicated stuff. If you can. I actually started a project a while ago for a total conversion for FO3/NV but it's abandoned now.

 

[Norzan]

The quest is called CG00 and yes you can make a mod to completely skip it, if you want to have the random encounters and the revisit in Vault 101 in your main game then you have to set some questvariables but it isn't complicated stuff.

At best you have a mod to completely skip the intro but like i said, the rest of the game still acknowledges that it happened.

I did say you can mod it to completely skip it, so my information isn't wrong. My point is that even if you skip it, the narrative, story, characters and the world make sure that it did happen even if you skipped it.

 

[sesom]

I did say you can mod it to completely skip it, so my information isn't wrong. My point is that even if you skip it, the narrative, story, characters and the world make sure that it did happen even if you skipped it.

Yeah you have to change the narrative too in the game. Everyone knows and acknowledge constantly that you came from Vault 101. Sorry understood you wrong.

 

[Norzan]

The intro and the backstory in the vault is so hardcoded that is pretty much impossible to mod something to change it. The rest of the game makes sure that the crap that happened in the intro actually happened.

I do admit that this can be somewhat confusing. My point is that you can't mod to not have your dad be James, neither having a living mother, neither having siblings, or really anything in the vault. Unless you want to spend a ton of money hiring the same VAs and changing the script.

And gotta love Arnust liking posts that say i was wrong even though i wasn't. Being a contrarian and white knight to Fallout 3's bullshit as usual.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

And gotta love Arnust liking posts that say i was wrong even though i wasn't. Being a contrarian and white knight to Fallout 3's bullshit as usual.

I tend to appreciate insight into the inner workings of games that are naturally unseen. And also the premise of putting work where his mouth is.

I probably don’t like it quite as much as seeing people get passed at that, though.

It does make me wonder though, why the hell do you want to play the game if you want to remove LITERALLY all context for it, as if somehow just isn’t doable by just, say, going and setting your game to Russian or whatever so you can’t possibly understand anything of what you’re being told and just have the game world to roam.

All which i’m not sure if it either is worth the trouble seeing your general disposition towards the game and it’s authors in the first place, which then makes me wonder if you’re not being an antagonistic ass as usual, more aggravatingly so in this thread supposedly dedicated to talking and celebrating about TTW, feedback, and it’s team, not about how Cool Guy Norzan doesn’t like Fallout 3 like that shit’s novel from him or anyone a DECADE later and particularly on
NMA of all places.

So there’s that.

Anyway, I was wondering, isn’t the balance rather broken by having a whole two games to get XP from, as well as all the new items rarely replacing others? I’ve just done the stuff around Megaton and I leveled at the vanilla rate. I guess it shouldn’t be much of a problem, but I assume it’ll be a bit awkward to wake up on Doc Mitchell’s clinic at level 50.

 

[Golbolco]

Yeah you have to change the narrative too in the game. Everyone knows and acknowledge constantly that you came from Vault 101. Sorry understood you wrong.

I could deal with that. I don't think that Fallout 1 is made any worse of a game by telling you that you're from Vault 13. Are things actually as intrusive as Norzan says they are, though? I don't recall many lines of dialogue that state every meticulous detail about your character's backstory. The worst of it is referring to James and his wife as your parents, no?

 

[sesom]

I could deal with that. I don't think that Fallout 1 is made any worse of a game by telling you that you're from Vault 13. Are things actually as intrusive as Norzan says they are, though? I don't recall many lines of dialogue that state every meticulous detail about your character's backstory. The worst of it is referring to James and his wife as your parents, no?

The mainquest is all about your father and that your father left the Vault. You are on a search for your daddy (as you are in FO4 in search for your son) and finishing his passion project. Also remind you a lot of NPCs that you are fresh out of the Vault.

 

[Norzan]

I could deal with that. I don't think that Fallout 1 is made any worse of a game by telling you that you're from Vault 13. Are things actually as intrusive as Norzan says they are, though? I don't recall many lines of dialogue that state every meticulous detail about your character's backstory. The worst of it is referring to James and his wife as your parents, no?

In Fallout 1 being told you are from Vault 13 is fine because that's all the game says about you, everything else is up to you. That's not the case for Fallout 3, the intro tells too much about you and you can't just ignore that on a whim.

Like sesom said, the entire questline is how you help your dad. You can't just ignore that out of preference. You are called James's son or daughter by some npcs as well and you have quests on the vault after the intro. The entire core of the game is built upon this.

 

[Golbolco]

I’m not sure my question was clear. I’ll try to clarify.

What would a kidder have to remove, add or change to Fallout 3 in order to free up player choice and determining their own character through roleplay?

We agree that you would have to:
-Cut most, if not all of the intro to the game.
-Clip or splice any dialogue referencing your familial ties to James and Catherine.

Being fresh out of the Vault is fine: we can assume that if possible, then we would cut the Vault sequence up to escaping the Vault itself. That will keep a lot of the quests/logistical errors in check.

What else would have to be done, hypothetically?

 

[Norzan]

Cut the intro, make any mention of being James's son or daughter disappear and also make James not acknowledge you as his son or daughter and just think you as some random dude/dudette that decided to help him. And also not specific your age.

That's pretty much it.

 

[naossano]

What's wrong with them... Besides them dying easily?

That's better made as a mod for TTW.
Also getting voice sound files for it would be a pain or downright impossible without paying the VAs again.

They don't go anywhere.
They pop at certain location at certain times, but if you follow them for a couple of hours, they won't reach any cities. They just move randomly.
Protecting caravans would be the only reason i would go back to the Capital Wasteland.

 

[Risewild]

They don't go anywhere.
They pop at certain location at certain times, but if you follow them for a couple of hours, they won't reach any cities. They just move randomly.
Protecting caravans would be the only reason i would go back to the Capital Wasteland.

I am pretty sure they have their patrol markers, they are supposed to follow them to reach each settlement.

Although they will probably die when trying to reach Rivet City, because of the Super Mutants and the route they take. But the game doesn't "simulate" things that are not being rendered, so they will only die if the player is in the same cells as the caravan.

I am gonna start testing TTW 3.2 way more from today, so I will have to test that too... It will be a very slow and boring trek, to follow each caravan through all of their routes... Literally real time hours I think.

 

[sesom]

I am pretty sure they have their patrol markers, they are supposed to follow them to reach each settlement.

Although they will probably die when trying to reach Rivet City, because of the Super Mutants and the route they take. But the game doesn't "simulate" things that are not being rendered, so they will only die if the player is in the same cells as the caravan.

I am gonna start testing TTW 3.2 way more from today, so I will have to test that too... It will be a very slow and boring trek, to follow each caravan through all of their routes... Literally real time hours I think.

You don't have to follow them Rise for the test, simply wait a day or two on a route marker and see if they show up. That's the planned behavior for them. The advantage is they don't get in any fights that way and you see if the general AI (packages) do what it is supposed to do. While following them they get offtrack, in fights or stuck on bad navmeshes but catch up later when the player reaches a patrol marker with fast travel or from a different direction.

 

[Risewild]

You don't have to follow them Rise for the test, simply wait a day or two on a route marker and see if they show up. That's the planned behavior for them. The advantage is they don't get in any fights that way and you see if the general AI (packages) do what it is supposed to do. While following them they get offtrack, in fights or stuck on bad navmeshes but catch up later when the player reaches a patrol marker with fast travel or from a different direction.

You should know that I am thorough with my testing .
I do it the hard and boring way just to be sure. It will also help me know, if there are any parts besides the Rivet City route where the caravans will usually die.

If I identify some of those "problematic" areas, maybe I can suggest we change/edit them a bit to make the caravans have more survivability .


EDIT: Here are some things TTW adds:

New harvestables:
Mutfruit plant
Crunchy Mutfruint plant
Brain fungus (made pickable and created an item for it)
Glowing mushroom (made pickable and created an item for it)
In Oasis:
Potato
Carrot
Apple tree
Pear tree

4 new poisons:
Deathclaw Poison
Kite
Rust Rot
Meltdown

Poisonable darts for the dart gun for each poison type

Ammo types and recipes added for .32 ammo

Capital Wasteland Recipes:

Mutfruit Marinade
Centaur Sangria
Wasteland Hot Dog
Brain Freeze
Mirelurk Special
Brain Food
Nukalurk Sushi
Spicy Quantum Sauce
Spicy Nukalurk Roll
Yao Guai Medallions
Mole Rat Steak
Fire Ant Bits
Ant Bits
Fire Ant Nog
Ant Nog
Bloatfly Smoothie
Steamed Radroach
Mirelurk Cakes
Steamed Mirelurk
Mirelurk Thermador


Zeta food recipes:
Startencle
Out Of This World Pie

Fallout 3 crafting made in NV system:
Shishkebab
Deathclaw Gauntlet
Railway Rifle
RockIt Launcher
Nuka Grenade
Bottlecap Mine


Nuka Cocktail

Molotov Cocktail

Trench Knife

New craftable weapons:

Cryolator
Cryo Mine
Cryo Grenade
Liquid Nitrogen

All cut weapons from Fallout 3 and DLCs are restored

20 Weapon Mods

 

[naossano]

You don't have to follow them Rise for the test, simply wait a day or two on a route marker and see if they show up. That's the planned behavior for them. The advantage is they don't get in any fights that way and you see if the general AI (packages) do what it is supposed to do. While following them they get offtrack, in fights or stuck on bad navmeshes but catch up later when the player reaches a patrol marker with fast travel or from a different direction.

The problem isn't for spawns. They usually spawn on schedules on map markers. The problem is that when you follow them, they don'T have caravan behaviors.

Followed the water caravans in Fo3 for 4 or 6 hours. Those guys never reach a city. Sometime they get close to a city, but they move into another direction before reaching it. Then, they seem to go north, then suddenly turn south, then east, then west... Once they spawn, they don't try to reach any destination. They just move at random. Of course, if you spawn somewhere else, they will spawn on schedule, but if you follow them, they don't behave properly.

It got even worse in New Vegas. I followed one caravan until it reach a location in which they started moving in circle around a stopsign. And then, other caravans join them them and move in circle around the same stopsign, making a cluster of npc on the same spot.

As it is, it is not possible to follow a protect a caravan for a sustainable amount of time, as they don'T have the proper behavior for it. FoNV can save itself with its quests and writing, but protecting caravan is litterally the only thing i would consider doing in Fo3 at that point. They have a map, but they are doing nothing with it.