The condition of Survival Horrors, on example

I've watched other people play installments of the Silent Hill series, I sat down with a friend and we enjoyed the bad voice acting of the original, front to back, and most recently I saw a friend running through Homecoming.

I'm not only speaking of tension in regards to my comparison with Rogue Spear, while Silent Hill had some effective creepy cinematic scares, it didn't really have the adrenaline rush or doubting hints of fear that Rogue Spear did.
I feel that if gaming feels the need to distinguish itself, it needs to place you in a state of fear that not only draws its focus from horror elements or typical cinematic tricks - including such things as zombie dogs jumping through windows in Resident Evil, the transition from Otherworld to Foggy in Silent Hill - but also the fear for your character.

It's difficult to explain, if you had played System Shock 2 (sad that your PC can't run it, it's definitely worth experiencing) I could have related to you a story that I'm absolutely certain everyone who has experienced that game gone through at some point.
Played it or not, it's still a good point, this is my idea of what a perfect horror game strives for.

System Shock 2 sets itself up quickly, you emerge from a cryogenic chamber with alarms screaming all about you and the small room you're within shaking and filling up with debris. As soon as it starts, it places you in a false sense of danger, even though the scripting prevents you from being harmed in this early segment, you feel urgency, you feel that your character himself is in harm's way.
An urgent individual contacts you through audio communication, and implores you to make your way out of the unstable sector of the Von Braun, as you're crawling through ducts and passages in the now suddenly silent ship, you see through a window, mere feet away from you, some strange humanoid creature - obviously misshapen - shooting down a screaming victim, then running off with disturbing grunts and screams.

The game immediately introduces you to your first enemy without you even fighting him at all, yet you already feel threatened simply because you realize that they're killing with impunity.

So what happens when you meet your first Hybrid? Shambling towards you and imploring you to run away as the body it no longer controls limps and swings your way, you feel fucking afraid.
What did I do?

I didn't smack it with a wrench.
I didn't shoot it with a pistol.

I ran away and hid under a desk.

The whole while it moved about, I could see its legs, hear its breathing and see it shuffling around, looking for me, calling out for me.

That scared me shitless, it wasn't scripted, no one intended it to happen, it wasn't apart of the gameplay, but somehow the game itself extended that fear of physical harm, of helpless persecution and terror in the charge of some disfigured monstrosity. Somehow, no matter how irrational, I actually feared for myself, my character, because of this single weak beginner enemy.

I didn't exactly see that in Silent Hill, or Resident Evil, there wasn't much character in the creatures you encountered, they were weird, but they were absolute fodder for the most part. Those annoying flying things in Silent Hill 1 for example, sure they scare you when they first crash into the diner, but after that they're just annoying and most of the scares simply rely on age old cinematic tricks.

My point was that Rogue Spear somehow makes you fear for yourself, it provides tension, but not only that it provides fear that is only felt in the medium of horror because the game makes you feel like you are at the mercy of your enemies, much like System Shock 2 did.
 
Shit.. I may as well join your fanclub along with alec.. :) While I can't relate exactly to what you're saying about System Shock 2, or even Rogue Spear, your story did have resemblence of plenty of moments of my own in various videogames. I was even somewhat reminded of some moments in Hitman games. It just wasn't something that I associated word "horror" with. "Horror" for me meant being scared shitless even when there are no enemies around, just by atmosphere alone. Although english isn't my native language so I may have convoluted it in certain cases to suit my purposes.. :)
One more point though - seeing someone play is definitely not the same as playing it yourself, of course you know that.. Reminds me when I was still in school, me and my friend would play Silent Hill 1 on PS1 at his home and we would pass around gamepad to each other from time to time, and would even get into arguments on who should play next, cause both of us were too scared to play, but also no one wanted the trip to stop. :D Ah the good times..
I will try searching some more on launching System Shock 2 on modern PC's.
 
Damn, I wish the Suffering was done with an engine as good as the one Dead Space is running on. This would be the best fucking survival action horror ever.
 
Ravager69 said:
Damn, I wish the Suffering was done with an engine as good as the one Dead Space is running on.

The engine didn't seem as good when it was powering first Godfather game though.. It was nicely upgraded, that's for sure. Game looks great and runs perfectly. Engine will be a good competition to Unreal 3.0 if it gets licensed.
 
The suffering blew ass, the story was typical, and cliched, Torque was a horrible main character. The enemies were cool, but they are total clive barker rip offs.

See what I did there?

Dead space at least had atmosphere, and though it used familiar story elements, it had this isolated atmosphere(that was captured in the past in ss2) due mainly in part to it's setting. It was that setting that makes dead space leaps and bounds better than The suffering. To me there was a lot more to dead space than The suffering. The audio logs beat the suffering's phone calls. Issac clarke has this "average man" caught in a dire situation characteristic that makes him a lot more relatable. I could care less that Torque is basically a superhero(his beast transformations are lame, altered beast did it better :O) and that he ...

*Spoilers*
[spoiler:597207faa3]in the end Is either a do gooder or a family killer.
[/spoiler:597207faa3]

There's no moral questioning with Isaac, rather you know of his commitments, but the rest of it is left a mystery, and in the genre known as Survival horror, I believe that it strengthens his character. In other games it would make more sense to have a more developed background, but I think it fits dead space perfectly.

Making Isaac Clarke a mining engineer instead of a hardened bad ass.

Plus the art design tears apart the suffering.
 
[spoiler:9c88c8e727]If you're neutral, it turns out Torque killed his wife by accident by pushing her on a cabinet, and his son kills his brother and then jumps out of the window[/spoiler:9c88c8e727]

BTW you're telling me Dead Space's story isn't cliche and typical or the monster weren't ripped-off (from The Suffering no less)? I beg to differ. It had a lot more annoying cliche moments than the Suffering - the first mission is a fine example. Also, the monsters are soulless and have no character.

I'm not going to argue about taste, but I never liked games with emphasis on isolation - for me, it's just plain boring to do all the stuff by yourself with no human other than yourself around. 90% percent of the game consists of splattering\slicing\blowing up\throwing enemies into the vacuum, with little to none character interaction. If it was at least Silent Hill style, where you *really* get creeped out because you saw something moving down the corridor, then I would be fine with it. I also don't really like sci-fi setting, it's soulless to me.

IF you prefer Dead Space over The Suffering, then I can understand it. But to me, it is a step back for survival horror games (it just makes some things more plausible and has better visuals than the rest) and a boring game. Characters are an important part of the atmosphere to me and you have to agree, the ones in The Suffering are far better (Dr Killjoy or Hermes for example) and as for the main character and his transformation...well, I kinda feel some connection to it, because I myself have a berserk nature (though I don't consider myself tough, I just can get out of control) and sometimes I'd like to rip some people apart with my fingernails :P

BTW I assume you know it, but Torque's transformations [spoiler:9c88c8e727]aren't real. That's only an illusion, he just get's an extreme adrenaline rush. Not so unbelievable if you ask me, humans can get much stronger if they loose control[/spoiler:9c88c8e727]

As for the design....I guess it's the fault of the Riot engine, which isn't as good as the one powering up DS. Though I love the idea of journals with unlockable pages, Clem's narration really makes the atmosphere go up.
 
First of all, you are all n00bs for not mentioning Nocturne. :D
It's the best Survival Horror game i have ever played, better then SS2 in my opinion because it was PURE Survival Horror and not Survival Horror action shit etc.
I played SS2 and it DID scare the Crap out of me at certain points but Nocturne had simply a more interesting atmosphere and a deeper and more engaging story....and the epilogue...fuck...till this very fucking day, no game ending has managed to beat it.
If you are into survival horror games and haven't played Nocturne then you should start looking for it RIGHT NOW! :D

btw, speaking of recent survival horror games, i heard that "Siren - Blood Curse" is a great game. haven't played it yet, but from what i have heard, it is a Survival Horror game with Stealth Elements. That is kinda interesting because you always do have a feeling that you want to hide/get away from the monsters, zombies or etc.
 
Never heard of Nocturne, thanks for recommendation, I will check it out.

Stealth+survival horror definitely could work. I remember first third of Call Of Cthulhu: Dark Corners Of The Earth, when you don't have any means to kill enemies and have to sneak around, to me it was the best part of the game and I felt it went downhill as soon as you got the gun. "Siren" is not on PC though, so sadly I'll not be able to play it.

Ravager69 about Dead Space said:
Also, the monsters are soulless and have no character.

Not only monsters, but the actual characters have no character. It's really hard to give a shit about anything that happens to anyone in that game. And all the "twists" are very predictable too. Seriously, who was surprised when it turned out that [spoiler:1277a93896]Nicole was actually dead[/spoiler:1277a93896]?
Not me.. I've figured that out when I was in the middle of the game. Or maybe that wasn't even supposed to be a twist, but it sure looked like it.
The Suffering isn't very original too, I agree, but it still has much better writing than Dead Space, even minor characters in it are more memorable. Like stoned Sergei found in asylum for example, I loved that guy.
 
Nocturne had a horrible engine, it looked pretty, but the controls, the system reqs, Jesus, no wonder no one liked it at release.
 
Nocturne was cool but when it was released I could only contemplate its awesome screenshots ( it had very cool graphics for its time ) since my computer couldn't play it ( didn't have a 3dfx or a Riva TNT ).

I know that one can argue that it's not a survival horror but just a shitty fps, but did you guys like 'Nosferatu' ? Probably one of the scariest games I've played so far ( and I've played System Shock 2, Project Zero, Resident Evil 1 & 2, just begun Silent Hill 2... ).
 
MrBumble said:
I know that one can argue that it's not a survival horror but just a shitty fps, but did you guys like 'Nosferatu' ? Probably one of the scariest games I've played so far ( and I've played System Shock 2, Project Zero, Resident Evil 1 & 2, just begun Silent Hill 2... ).

I suppose I have to play Nosferatu too now.. :) Let me know what you think of SH2 if you finish it. And if you like it, play SH3 too. It's a semi-seguel to SH1 but it isn't really necessary to play SH1 to appreciate it.
 
MrBumble said:
Nocturne was cool but when it was released I could only contemplate its awesome screenshots ( it had very cool graphics for its time ) since my computer couldn't play it ( didn't have a 3dfx or a Riva TNT ).

I know that one can argue that it's not a survival horror but just a shitty fps, but did you guys like 'Nosferatu' ? Probably one of the scariest games I've played so far ( and I've played System Shock 2, Project Zero, Resident Evil 1 & 2, just begun Silent Hill 2... ).
Nocturne ran pretty good on my rig back then. i had a matrox g400 32mb. it ran very smooth with everything set to high. Damn, good old days, i can't believe that it was 9 years ago!
as for nosferatu, funny...last summer i just picked the game randomly somewhere and tried it. the game was quite scary!
didn't beat the game though, the game had a few annoying things.
 
I forgot to mention one thing - the fact that they made Isaac a mining engneer changes nothing. You can't see his face, there's no tension in his movement, he says nothing and his aim is steady like he was on a shooting range with friends. He doesn't really act like a regular guy caught in a horrifying situation, but more like a professional killer with years of experience in slaughtering monstrosities.

The fact that there's basically no background on him nor on his girlfriend is the biggest fault of the game. You don't know if he's a good guy or an asshole, you don't feel no connection to him (because he's basically a walking suit of armor that can bleed and give of some "oh!" and "ARGH!!"), you don't feel no need to find Nicole, because you don't know her or how her relationship with Isaac looked like, nothing.

It's hard to care about your avatar if it's devoid of character (and looks better when he is being killed by some monsters than alive) and to continue to play if you know that the only thing waiting around a corner is more monsters to kill (and the ending sucks). The final boss fight was extremely lame, you have no sense of accomplishment when you kill that big tentacle shit. The same is with other monsters, you don't really get much satisfaction from killing the necromorphs.
 
Actually :P, you can see Issac Clarke's face, in the beginning and in the end of the game.

You are given no backstory because in a way, its left as up to the viewer to decide the blanks, to "play the character" and relate to him. It doesn't work for every game, but to me, it works for dead space. To me Dead space set out to create a telling atmosphere, and it suceeded on those levels.

But I respect your opinion and The Suffering is still a decent game.
on, and

Nothing beats System shock 2 I'm afraid.
 
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