The disappointment of the Spouse

[CT Phipps]

But does't some up fallout 4. Would people where expecting and wanting never really quite got finished an happened. When I was playing the game I was thinking theres got to be err....rhhhh more to this or something ?. Yeah also you don't really get to have synth Shaun as a companion or anything or !!! Theres no real story their no sythn spouse either. Would of defiantly be interesting. But I think the bottom line is expected story turned out to be no story at all. It suggests theirs going to be story but there's really not they spent there time on quests like kid in the fridge or raid on abanathy farm 5

If you take a step back, the game is clearly not finished in the same way that making a room with three walls and covering a sheet over the other isn't. There's MASSIVE-MASSIVE numbers of repeated lines so that the BoS, Minutemen, and Railroad dialogue is identical when you complete the game. There's also the fact that virtually every line given gets the exact same answer. Telltale (justifiably) gets a lot of shit for this but they are at least tightly told stories.

It's very obvious that they did their best to finish the game with as much attention to making it LOOK finished as possible. I think it's why 2/3rds of the settlements are "Do it yourself" mods. This, honestly, feels about as completed as Knights of the Old Republic 2.

The worst is that this time around they were super proud of their oh-so-deep and engaging story and focus on character, something they never did before (unless you count Reguard to some degree)... But they just suck at writing, so we got the blandest of blands possible.

I posted "The Writer Will Do Something" link a while ago, which is a choose your own adventure game about video game development. Basically, the central lesson of it being the writer actually can and does shit because the game is usually being made around them.

My problem is that there is a disconnect between player and character in an RPG off all things.

I'd rather the game try and build an emotional moment through an event rather than character.

Fallout isn't the game for blank slate storytelling really. You can be anyone but they're actually pretty clear about your character concepts: Vault Dweller, Chosen One, and Lone Wanderer. The Courier was actually the exception to the rule as you could make any number of weird headcanons for that like being a postman while you recovered from your last mission for the Moon Enclave.

I'm cool with "Geralt" storytelling too where you have a specific character you're playing if the story is good.

Even so, it says just about everything you need to know about the flaws of the Spouse storyline that the story would be improved if you were an unnamed character visiting your sister and your nephew rather than a husband or wife with a child. Then you could have been anybody.

 

[Millim]

Fallout isn't the game for blank slate storytelling really. You can be anyone but they're actually pretty clear about your character concepts: Vault Dweller, Chosen One, and Lone Wanderer. The Courier was actually the exception to the rule as you could make any number of weird headcanons for that like being a postman while you recovered from your last mission for the Moon Enclave.

I'm cool with "Geralt" storytelling too where you have a specific character you're playing if the story is good.

Even so, it says just about everything you need to know about the flaws of the Spouse storyline that the story would be improved if you were an unnamed character visiting your sister and your nephew rather than a husband or wife with a child. Then you could have been anybody.

I've always really thought of the Vault Dweller to be kind of a blank slate.
We don't know anything about them besides they lived in a Vault their whole life.

Fallout 2 does give the Chosen One a family, but I always thought of this as an extension to the Vault Dweller, like how most of the people in the Tribe would have a similar personality type or so.

The Lone Wonderer does give us a Dad, and while it is a bit railroaded into who our character is, I wouldn't say it's as bad as F4.

I have one very simple way to fix Fallout 4, in fact, it may be easier than what Bethesda did.

They should have cut the wife out completely and start with you waking up in the Vault.

(Actually, wouldn't it be interesting if all this time you were the Android and the main villain was the real you. But due to the experiment starting closing too soon, the personality wasn't able to be completed and so you became your own person?)

The amount of possibilities this story could have gone, and we ended up with the most generic.

 

[lolpop109]

I think its kinda like everything in life its give and take. I always felt like fallout was more built your own character etc. I never chose any of the preset characters and this was one of the things I really like about fallout. However in the witcher you still get a similar experience. Your always Geralt but who geralt actually well thats up to you. I think both can work. I've played played every fallout game role playing different characters after completeing the main game and this was the think I really loved about fallout games. But having to come from a military background and having to have a familycould of ruined some peoples RP from the start. I mean I kinda got into it. But I defintly could't replay fo4. For me it had only one path that appealed to me. Just like in the witcher a far meaner character in general would't appeal to me however its not and black and white as that so I am kinda just goiing through it iron man and that does feel very stratifying.

 

[CT Phipps]

I've always really thought of the Vault Dweller to be kind of a blank slate.
We don't know anything about them besides they lived in a Vault their whole life.

Fallout 2 does give the Chosen One a family, but I always thought of this as an extension to the Vault Dweller, like how most of the people in the Tribe would have a similar personality type or so.

Well, it explicitly means you have your entire background and everyone you've ever met defined for you. It's a bit like being a farmer from Tatooine. Yes, you can make Luke into any kind of person you are, but you have a very defined background.

The Lone Wonderer does give us a Dad, and while it is a bit railroaded into who our character is, I wouldn't say it's as bad as F4.

I have one very simple way to fix Fallout 4, in fact, it may be easier than what Bethesda did.

They should have cut the wife out completely and start with you waking up in the Vault.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, how is that simple? Why are you searching for your son then? The entirety of the plot is fixated around that quest.

Not the conflict with the Institute or BoS.

 

[Millim]

Well, it explicitly means you have your entire background and everyone you've ever met defined for you. It's a bit like being a farmer from Tatooine. Yes, you can make Luke into any kind of person you are, but you have a very defined background.

The Lone Wonderer does give us a Dad, and while it is a bit railroaded into who our character is, I wouldn't say it's as bad as F4.

Yeah, LW does allow us to really play as anyone to a certain extent.
I like it's RP options a lot more than F4, I just really don't like the opener.

[/QUOTE]
At the risk of pointing out the obvious, how is that simple? Why are you searching for your son then? The entirety of the plot is fixated around that quest.

Not the conflict with the Institute or BoS.[/QUOTE]

I would have cut out Shaun entirely. It should have been the Vault that got kidnapped, you are tasked with finding who took them and where they went.

 

[CT Phipps]

I would have cut out Shaun entirely. It should have been the Vault that got kidnapped, you are tasked with finding who took them and where they went.

Eh, I like having a personal connection to people. Part of the issue I think with Fallout 4 is there is no actual reason to give a shit about anything which is happening in the war between the Institute and the BoS. It's not like New Vegas where it's a life of Freedom, Riches, Power, or Slavery on the table.

Who really wins or loses if one or the other Fascist Organization wins?

Which means, yeah, we have the Minutemen or Railroad but both those have massive issues:

1. The Railroad destroying the Institute means there's no more Synths ever to be born.

2. The Minutemen are incredibly ill-defined.

 

[Millim]

Eh, I like having a personal connection to people. Part of the issue I think with Fallout 4 is there is no actual reason to give a shit about anything which is happening in the war between the Institute and the BoS. It's not like New Vegas where it's a life of Freedom, Riches, Power, or Slavery on the table.

Who really wins or loses if one or the other Fascist Organization wins?

Which means, yeah, we have the Minutemen or Railroad but both those have massive issues:

1. The Railroad destroying the Institute means there's no more Synths ever to be born.

2. The Minutemen are incredibly ill-defined.

One of the issues about having an emotional connection to people in an RPG is that if you're creating a Player created RPG, it's really hard to do.

One of the things I enjoyed about New Vegas was how it acted as if you didn't give a shit about these characters, but if you did, there were options you could do to get around that.

I was thinking more of the lines of you wake up in the Vault, talk to the residents for a while, and when you get to the surface, they are taken by the Institute. Or something like that.

 

[lolpop109]

How about you wake up confused with everyone else but your wife/son is missing. You can talk with the redsiden and get to know some stuff. This could of lead to the mintue man quest leading the group of surviours forming the society at sanctuary etc. Then you would have to go off and find them but its not so generic and you can talk to the other vault residence and also would make sence in forming a new faction

 

[Prone Squanderer]

I've said before, I'd rather the game have gone the cyborg route, taking people in and turning them into machines for their own experimentation, trying to create a one state, basically a follow up to the Master's plan.

Going with that idea get rid of Kellogg and make your spouse the cyborg Institute agent or something. Have it so when you confront them the spouse argues for the Institute and what it's doing.

I still believe that having the Institute be involved in cyborg tech rather than synths is a better idea and fits more in the Fallout universe.

EDIT: Or as said before, remove the spouse. Maybe instead of a spouse they're a close friend or simply another fellow Vault dweller. Whatever they are, given enough time we might actually give a shit about them.

 

[Millim]

I would have gone with a Cybernetic Vault Dweller.
We could either kill them or let them live, where they later become a Companion.

They also could have told the Sole Survivor where they went, but mentions they don't know how to get there.

Put in some more possibilities to role play and there you go.
Bethesda could have got game of the year easily.

 

[Jogre]

Well, it explicitly means you have your entire background and everyone you've ever met defined for you. It's a bit like being a farmer from Tatooine. Yes, you can make Luke into any kind of person you are, but you have a very defined background.

It's not that big a railroading tbh.

All it shows is that you are ignorant about the events of the outside world. Vaults have well over 1000 people, there are hundreds of stories you can make up of how they got on in the vault.

Plus, I would argue it's fine to have circumstances of birth being decided for you, so long as you don't have your backstory including your character acting out of character

Which means, yeah, we have the Minutemen or Railroad but both those have massive issues:

1. The Railroad destroying the Institute means there's no more Synths ever to be born.

2. The Minutemen are incredibly ill-defined.

While the railroad have thousands of problems, I don't think that is one of them.

The Railroad are interested in freeing Synths, and allowing them to live free of harm. That doesn't nescessarily mean they actively care about creating more Synths. Hell, it probably makes there job a lot harder if there are more synths.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I've always really thought of the Vault Dweller to be kind of a blank slate.
We don't know anything about them besides they lived in a Vault their whole life.

We also know that because of that, they grew up institutionalized, and among the only family they ever knew; and that that family was suddenly at risk. We also know that they were (at least) the third Vault Dweller sent on the quest; and that they may discover this over the course of their adventure. We know that their past was lived out in a culture bubble, and that regardless of personality, they emerge from the vault pretty much like [and for the same reasons as] the Brendan Fraser character in 'Blast From the Past'*; but unlike Adam's... their world is [at first look] a hell on earth. A hell that they dive into, looking for what their family needs to survive.

Spoiler: First time out of the vault

* Born in the vault; first contact with outsiders, and the sky.

 

[CT Phipps]

If I'm totally going to fanfic it?

I would have the Sole Survivor wake up with amnesia the most overused plothole in these sorts of games and lots of clues which would lead him to his wife and child. We would also have a bunch of audio-recordings spread about the place containing fragments of your previous life. Skip the whole business of the Pre-War survival business and finally reach "The Leader" and discover that they're an older version of your character.

Yes, you are a Synth as we all expected but it's The Leaders attempt to remake themselves to cope with their death.

Talk about your past prior to this point would have the basic choices:

1. Accept your past completely
2. Reject your past.
3. Confusion.



Basically, Total Recall.

You would also meet with your Spouse from these False Memories and choose to either try to romance them or not.

 

[mithrap]

I've always really thought of the Vault Dweller to be kind of a blank slate.
We don't know anything about them besides they lived in a Vault their whole life.

Fallout 2 does give the Chosen One a family, but I always thought of this as an extension to the Vault Dweller, like how most of the people in the Tribe would have a similar personality type or so.

The Lone Wonderer does give us a Dad, and while it is a bit railroaded into who our character is, I wouldn't say it's as bad as F4.

I have one very simple way to fix Fallout 4, in fact, it may be easier than what Bethesda did.

They should have cut the wife out completely and start with you waking up in the Vault.

(Actually, wouldn't it be interesting if all this time you were the Android and the main villain was the real you. But due to the experiment starting closing too soon, the personality wasn't able to be completed and so you became your own person?)

The amount of possibilities this story could have gone, and we ended up with the most generic.

Huh! The idea of the real you being the antagonist is actually pretty interesting... if we keep the current Institute storyline. Because in order to become their leader, you'd have to... replace the real you. Assume "his" identity, and pretend that you are him. Which you are, but... well, you get the idea.
Basically, do the exact thing that Synths are accused of doing. Justify the hate towards them. Putting yourself in their shoes, for the greater good, or for your ambition.
That would have triggered the philosophical subplot way better than in the current game. And it would have given depth to the "synths replace people!" subplot.

Also, I like the idea of having to find the kidnapped population of the vault. Still, there needs to be some kind of urgency to do so, because otherwise, the majority of the players will simply ignore the quest. Dishonored 2 deals with that urgency pretty well, in my mind.
Your character could be sick, for example, and the one with the cure is one of the vault's resident. Hell, could be Curie, if Curie was part of vault 111. I really feel like she should have been more connected to the main quest. Hell, the gal can potentially cure everyone of everything. She is WAY more important than everyone, and yet, the sole survivor drags her in the middle of actual battles, which is beyond irresponsible. If anything, you should be helping her, not the other way around.

 

[CT Phipps]

On my end, I think it's probably not the game for it but I would love an Elizabeth or Prince of Persia reboot-esque companion who is the player character's spouse. One of the things I actually liked a lot about Skyrim was the fact you could go on adventures with your wife if you married a fellow warrior and it'd be cool to have that as an option.

Fallout 4 had Companions you could romance who loved you but a full-on companion you romance, marry, and have different dialogue for would be awesome.