The Jesus Factor

welsh

Junkmaster
Ok, here's the question-

Is George Bush just a politician who uses Christianity to buy votes from Evengelical Christians

Or

Is he just a whacko who really believes it, feels appointed by God to lead America to the future.

You decide-

Frontline has run a special examining this question and it's made substantial controversy in the US. It's also available on-line.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/
 
How about a whacko who has teh faith, and uses it to buy votes?
 
I'll go with the second one, only a religious wacko could behave as he did, and even if he didn't belive it at first the power got to him and he was overwhelmed by his delusion of grandeur. Power corrupts; absolute power absolutely corrupts.
 
He's definitely a religious zealot, but he also uses that position to leech votes off the ignorant midwestern christian fanatics. Its basically ignorance begetting ignorance.
 
Is he just a whacko who really believes it, feels appointed by God to lead America to the future.

Makes me think of a new 'manifest destiny' with Bush leading us into the Middle East (cue inspirational music...)
Bush is kinda scary--I mean, I'm a conservative but he is definitely not my first choice for the White House. Course, neither is John Kerry. It'll be interesting to see how this election plays out.
 
What we need is another Clinton. Just some regular joe that fucks around but gets the job done. At least with him, I knew I'd be getting money back on my tax returns. This year, with Bush's nice little tax "cuts" I ended up owing the IRS money for the first time in my life.
Firstly, George Bush's Jesus "obsession" is entirely main line in America, as 80% of Americans belive Jesus to be the Son of God, and 50% of all Americans belive themselves to be born agains.

I just have no idea how you can even convcive that Kerry is more a man of the people. His wife is among the richest people in politics, he is the first presedential candidate ever to travel around with a butler, and, unlike Kerry, he gives people the impression of being on thier level.

People (Democrats, almost all) think that Americans should care about the capital of Mongolia. The American people don't, and every time he mispronounces something, the average American views GW Bush as one of them.

Also, he's dyslexic, so don't fuck with his way of talking.

Not sure what you are talking about with taxes. Bush's tax cuts have effected people from all stratas of socitey, even National People's Radio admits that.

Makes me think of a new 'manifest destiny' with Bush leading us into the Middle East (cue inspirational music...)
Bush is kinda scary--I mean, I'm a conservative but he is definitely not my first choice for the White House. Course, neither is John Kerry. It'll be interesting to see how this election plays out.
Better to look strong and be wrong then look weak and be right.
Clinton said that, and Kerry gets both of them wrong. He's a motherfucking weakling, who's spine acts like grain in the wind.

that he's a Christian freak
Uselessly offensive and insulting to 80% of the American populace. Me-and the majority of Americans- consider themselves to be Christians, thus applying the word "freak" to someone outside of the World Church of the Creator is offensive to all of them.

Lest you not forget, Kerry's latest campaigining offensive has been in Churches. And I love this talk of excommunicating him. If that happens, by god, Ill be at St. Peter's in no time!

He's definitely a religious zealot, but he also uses that position to leech votes off the ignorant midwestern christian fanatics. Its basically ignorance begetting ignorance.
I'm a midwestern Christian. Most of my friends are Midwestern Christians. My family is full of Midwestern Christians. Yet at the same time they seem alot less ignorant then anyone I've met in Ney York, or god forbid, California.

Is he just a whacko who really believes it, feels appointed by God to lead America to the future.
What's wrong with this? I mean, it does seem kind of odd that he supposedly lost the popular vote and won the election. I see no problem in beliveing that some kind of divine will was involved.
 
Preach somewhere else, dude. No one here was saying anything bad about being a Christian, they're just saying Bush seems to take it too far.
Well, okay, maybe you where'nt, but I resent the term Jesus Freak, which I think is fair enough. Maybe bible thumper is more appropriate?

You got any references for those numbers you're boasting about?
BBC poll for the 80% (I think it's more in the region of 88%), CNN for the other. I don't know, it could be innaccurate, I don't have that great a mind for numbers, but I gave a fairly lowball estimate.

I also come from the "midwest." The buckle of the proverbial Bible Belt. I know very few people who support Bush, and I'm from Oklahoma, a strongly Republican state.
Same here. I know few Republicans, and some of them do not support Bush, as he has been fairly dissapointing to alot of Republicans (including myself on a few issus). Point is that Republicans hate Kerry as the embodiment of all things detestible in the Democratic party.

As for the tax cuts..It's just like I said. Since he instituted a cut, I had to PAY the IRS money instead of GETTING money. So yes, it's effected Americans..It's making me poorer than I already am.
You seem to be in a minority then. The rescession hit Chicago harder then any other major city in terms of jobs, and things are definatly looking up again.

Also, though I'm an agnostic, I go to a private Methodist college...No one here really cares for Bush. In fact, there's a 75yd mural against Bush and the war in Iraq right in the middle of campus.
I don't know much about modern Methodists, I do know that they where, at one point, the anti-Calvanists, thus I would assume they still have a relative liberal biased, as opposed to white Baptists and the like.

EDIT: It's National Public Radio. If you're going to try to quote someone, get it right.
EDIT: It's called a pun.
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
Firstly, George Bush's Jesus "obsession" is entirely main line in America, as 80% of Americans belive Jesus to be the Son of God, and 50% of all Americans belive themselves to be born agains....

True, 80% of Americans see themselves as Christians, nearly 50% go to church and almost 50% consider themselves evengelical.

That said, a lot of evengelicals might not support Bush. Just because you are evengelical doesn't necessarily mean you support Bush's platform.

I see little that is especially Christian about going to war in Iraq on false pretenses, mining for oil in Alaska instead of improving gas mileage on SUVs, Tax cuts to the wealthy of the country more than the middle class and poor.

Also not all Christians are Evengelicals.

But the problem I have with this is that as a President you are sworn to uphold the Constitution, not the Bible. The Constitution says some interesting things about the seperation of Church and State.

Now the Bush administration has, by executive order and not by Congressional decree, opened up the possibility of giving funding to faith based initiatives. Legislation is supposed to come from Congress, not the President. Ok, so the President does get to play with Executive Orders, but if you viewed the special, there is an interesting finding. None of the applications for funding that were to go to non-Christian faith based initiatives were funded. Zip. If the state is to support religions (already a potential danger of violating the seperation of church and state) than it should do so without bias.

That hasn't happened.

Now being a poor Catholic, I find it a bit annoying that a president is allowing a federal program to support some religions and not others. After all, if you don't support the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Shikhs now, what's next- the Mormons, then the Catholics....

Uselessly offensive and insulting to 80% of the American populace. Me-and the majority of Americans- consider themselves to be Christians, thus applying the word "freak" to someone outside of the World Church of the Creator is offensive to all of them.
....

No I don't think so. I think most of us can distinguish a "religious freak"/whacko/ Jesus freak/ christian nut from a person who is Christian (of whatever denomination).

I would say line comes down to rationality. A person who replaces dogma over rationality would, for me, qualify as "religious nut." Of course that's a pretty liberal definition.

What's wrong with this? I mean, it does seem kind of odd that he supposedly lost the popular vote and won the election. I see no problem in beliveing that some kind of divine will was involved.

Again, the question is fiduciary relationships. The President is supposed to work for all the people, not just some of the people, and not for the majority of the people. He is supposed to protect the Constitution from threats foreign and domestic. How can you do that when you are personally biased?
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
You got any references for those numbers you're boasting about?
BBC poll for the 80% (I think it's more in the region of 88%), CNN for the other. I don't know, it could be innaccurate, I don't have that great a mind for numbers, but I gave a fairly lowball estimate.
I too thought these numbers looked odd.
The survey I found said 76.5%, so it appears you're about right.
It always astounds me how many Americans are religious, though I'm undecided as to whether this is a Good thing, a Bad thing, or simply a Thing.
 
Big_T_UK said:
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
You got any references for those numbers you're boasting about?
BBC poll for the 80% (I think it's more in the region of 88%), CNN for the other. I don't know, it could be innaccurate, I don't have that great a mind for numbers, but I gave a fairly lowball estimate.
I too thought these numbers looked odd.
The survey I found said 76.5%, so it appears you're about right.
It always astounds me how many Americans are religious, though I'm undecided as to whether this is a Good thing, a Bad thing, or simply a Thing.

That number is for Christians, there are alot of religious Muslims/Sikhs/Hindus/Ba'hai and stuff.

Compare it to Poland, where 99% of the people consider themselves to be Roman Catholic...
 
Quite a few Americans are religious, but not very much so. They may go to church once a week, go through the rituals, and believe in some abstract god. It translates into being "religious" even though it really doesn't translate into real faith.

Still, fervent Christians outnumber Atheists.

This election is a dismal one, a choice between two evils. I'd rather have Bush's overwhelming failure than Kerry's underwhelming failure. That's how I'm basing my vote. Though, I live in Virginia, it's not like I'd make a difference in how my state votes.
 
people say that bush is engaging a "holy war", but you seem to forget that islamic extremists started the whole "holy war" mess to begin with, they called a war agianst the "infadels".
 
ExtremeRyno said:
I can't wait for the first Atheist, black, female president. I'd vote for her.
What about an Islamic president?
That'd be interesting...
 
Well, Bob, you are living up to your name. Anyone understand that?

Hmm... how about an Jewish, black, homosexual, female President? Practically a one-women minority.
 
can you say extermination, and the forced submititance muslim
I can say it, and at times it may even begin to look like a viable solution, but then again that would make me just as bad as, let's say, Hitler or Stalin or Lenin.... Genocide can't be the only viable solution, because if it is then I hate this game. Just as I despised the mission in Fallout Tactics where you had to kill Kerr. I think life is all about choices, and being able to do whatever you think is right, not having to do something just because there is no alternative. I think that the whole choosing the lesser evil also bites: where the hell is my freedom to choose?
[/rant]
 
c0ldst33ltrs4u said:
Just as I despised the mission in Fallout Tactics where you had to kill Kerr.

laughing-smiley-006.gif


I usually stab him to death with a scalpel after listening to all his twisted dialogue. :twisted:
 
bob_the_rambler said:
can you say extermination, and the forced submititance muslim

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. I'm a little extreme, but anything with the word "genocide" and "pro", save "pro killing fuckers who commit genocide", and I'm against it. I think the world would be better with some kind of revival of Christanity in the area, but fuck, I think the world would be a better place if everybody (save maybe the Zoroastrians and the Jews, the've earned it) converted.
 
When I herd the debrief and the general called me murderer I felt like shoving the SAW up his ass and pulling the trigger. Murder this! :twisted:
BAck on topic, what do you think that the Almighty Bush is going to do about the Iraqi prisoner incident? Maybe he will say that they were looking for WMD concealed within the prisoners? Walking, talking WMD! Or maybe they died of natural causes... is it not natural for severe torture or abuse to cause death? :roll:
 
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