The Legion is the best option for the wasteland

[Throatpunch]

And Mr House can't do shit until he gets someone to power up the Securitron army.

He already has quite a few securitron, even thought they are required to garrison Vegas of course.

And he can do quite a lot, as we have already seen.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

He already has quite a few securitron, even thought they are required to garrison Vegas of course.

And he can do quite a lot, as we have already seen.

Like spend 300k on looking for the Platinum chip only to lose it to your lieutenant.

A genius
A titan of industry
Smartest man alive

These are all things good ol' House thinks of himself.

 

[Jogre]

He already has quite a few securitron, even thought they are required to garrison Vegas of course.

And he can do quite a lot, as we have already seen.

Without the Platinum Chip, he is pretty much limited to the New Vegas Securitrons, who only really have access to basic machine guns. While they could put up a fight, they would be no match for Legion nor the NCR.

However just because he has to rely on the Courier to rise to power, doesn't make him any less of a valid choice. Once he has the courier on his side he is pretty much unstoppable.

Like spend 300k on looking for the Platinum chip only to lose it to your lieutenant.

To be fair, that's not Houses fault. He didn't realise that Yes Man had told Benny about the delivery order.

And even so, he did take preparations to avoid suspicions(Sending 6 couriers, each with a board game item)

 

[CaptJ]

That's not official, it's merely because Lanius is a brutal military genius that directly controls the majority of the Legion's military for the push into New Vegas.

And whose fault is that? Boone did said that he had a line of successors but the Legion is pretty fucked under Lanius.

It's hilarious how the Legion has better foreign intelligence then the NCR, Mr House and Independent combined.

Independent isn't a faction.

I'd love to see Vulpes in control.

You honestly believe that they would let a spy be the king of a warrior army?

BTW: Fuck the Legion. They are always the first to throw the radioactive rock.
New Vegas belongs to Robert House.

To be fair, that's not Houses fault. He didn't realise that Yes Man had told Benny about the delivery order.

To play techno-fetishists advocate, pretty much all his lieutenants betrayed him so he isn't exactly a good judge of character.

These are all things good ol' House thinks of himself.

That is because it is true.

 

[Jogre]

To play techno-fetishists advocate, pretty much all his lieutenants betrayed him so he isn't exactly a good judge of character.

He knew the Omertas were dishonest, but let them have power because New Vegas having its own Mafia seemed appealing to him. He is incredibly suspicous that they are planning to betray them, and sends the Courier to figure them out.

Apart from The Omertas and Benny, nobody really betrayed him (Except The Courier, but then again that's optional)

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

That is because it is true.

Oh my god. House is a ghost of the old world. He was oblivious to the tribe's unrest.

The Legion are the best hope. Security, law, trade etc. House just cares about playing his glorified version of Wasteland Civ from his tower. He's almost achieved a scientific victory, but without the Courier what would he have done? He would've lost Vegas to either the NCR or Legion.

 

[Throatpunch]

The Legion are the best hope. Security, law, trade etc.

What a rosy view! Conveniently ignoring all the downsides.

He would've lost Vegas to either the NCR or Legion.

Assumption.

While they could put up a fight, they would be no match for Legion nor the NCR.

Assumption.

 

[CaptJ]

Apart from The Omertas and Benny, nobody really betrayed him (Except The Courier, but then again that's optional)

Does Mortimer explicitly disobeying his no cannibalism rule count?

@SarcasticGoodGuy
The Legion indiscriminately destroys tribes that learn to live off the land. Arroyo and the Twin Mothers are examples of those that contribute to the new world. Besides, restarting the space program is a good way to ensure that humanity can't just be wiped out.

Assumption.

Unfortunately, they are true unless he upgrades the Securitrons.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

Unfortunately, they are true unless he upgrades the Securitrons.

Thanks for reluctantly backing me up.

@Doomsdayprepper without the Courier he won't win the battle for Vegas.

Now here's the thing. We don't know how much of the Legion is canon. As a lot of stuff was cut out because of the rushed development, we never saw the standard of living for Legion citizens. I would go House if I were the courier, as I don't have any first hand knowledge of the Legion, and in an NCR controlled Mojave, most people have a warped view on them.

 

[Throatpunch]

@Doomsdayprepper without the Courier he won't win the battle for Vegas.

Assumption, based on nothing.

And who says he can only use the courier? There are many extremely capable people in the wasteland he could hire.

Unfortunately, they are true unless he upgrades the Securitrons.

Its still an assumption.
Do you have any actual facts/evidence to base that upon?

 

[CaptJ]

As a lot of stuff was cut out because of the rushed development, we never saw the standard of living for Legion citizens. I would go House if I were the courier, as I don't have any first hand knowledge of the Legion, and in an NCR controlled Mojave, most people have a warped view on them.

The Legion is treated not treated as a raider gang despite being just as ruthless because they aren't a bunch of parasites. Even that retard Lanius knew the value of trade in society. That is why they have money because they pay their dues. That is also why the raiders in Nuka-World are retarded. Anyway, the Legion is always going to be a army of violent slavers. At best, I think the Legion has a soft side for neutral farmers or something. I remember that Sunny Smiles thought that the NCR was exaggerating about the crucifixions and the Khans and the White Legs were ignorant of a few key details about the Legion.

Do you think that they should have retcon to allow female Frumentarii to avoid the female Courier problem? It could add to Lanius disdain to Frumentarii and limiting to male spies does have some draw backs.

Do you have any actual facts/evidence to base that upon?

I have an opinion, House's opinion. I generally don't have confidence on someone who isn't confident on himself. One of the cut content involves House surrendering to the NCR if you blew up the Securitrons at Fortification Hill. I'm guessing that they couldn't give an excuse to let you keep the suite or it gets in the way of the Yes man ending.

 

[Jogre]

Does Mortimer explicitly disobeying his no cannibalism rule count?

It's not exactly being a traitor, so much as breaking Mr Houses rules for the sake of feeding addiction.

They still pay tribute to House, they don't plan to take Vegas for themselves, it doesn't really harm House in any way, so really I don't think its anywhere close to treason.

 

[CaptJ]

They still pay tribute to House, they don't plan to take Vegas for themselves, it doesn't really harm House in any way, so really I don't think its anywhere close to treason.

The evil route of Beyond the Beef can be used to recruit the White Gloves Society to the Legion's side. Also, eating your customers is bad for business.

Obsidian knew that the Legion lacked content so I guess that they tricked people to thinking that siding with the Legion wasn't really an option. The first impression that Legion gives is Nelson which was bad. Vulpes also made a "I was asking for it." line. Boone, most likely your first human companion, makes the Legion hostile by default. These are probably to make Legion content "secret" to make up for how little of it there is.

 

[Kadscaner]

The only reason Legion territory is so safe is because everyone is either a soldier or a slave. Also everyone is terrified because if they were to do anything wrong, they'd be either killed or turned into slave labor. That's no way to live.

 

[Dr Fallout]

And whose fault is that? Boone did said that he had a line of successors but the Legion is pretty fucked under Lanius.

No one's. Lanius is a military genius and so putting him in a position of command makes sense. This also however puts him in command of the army which makes him extremely powerful.

Independent isn't a faction.

SHHHH.

You honestly believe that they would let a spy be the king of a warrior army?

BTW: Fuck the Legion. They are always the first to throw the radioactive rock.
New Vegas belongs to Robert House.

Yes. Caesar isn't a warrior, even his lieutenants know this (Lucius is aware of Caesar's pains) and yet they still worship him. If he declared Vulpes as a proper successor then that would be like God choosing his Jesus.

The only reason Legion territory is so safe is because everyone is either a soldier or a slave. Also everyone is terrified because if they were to do anything wrong, they'd be either killed or turned into slave labor. That's no way to live.

Assumption.

 

[CaptJ]

No one's. Lanius is a military genius and so putting him in a position of command makes sense.

Spoiler: Remnants slide (Legion Lanius)

Merciless in their assault on the NCR, the Remnants struck fear into the hearts of even the centurions at Hoover Dam. Caesar's heirs aggressively pursued the Remnants into Arizona, losing hundreds of legionaries in the process and gaining nothing in return.

I guess that you could mean in fighting but I don't think that he could have avoided Joshua Graham's mistake at the First Battle of Hoover Dam.
@Kadscaner
@Dr Fallout
see

J.E. Sawyer finally caved in and provided some expanded background on the Legion and what New Vegas would've included, if given a few more months of development time:<blockquote>The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.

While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.

The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).

In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway).</blockquote>He also clarifies why there is no post-endgame play in the game:<blockquote>We always wanted to support post-Hoover play. A few milestones prior to being content complete, it was obvious that we weren't going to be able to support it to the extent that it deserved (robust reactivity to the choices the player made). Because we didn't have time to do it correctly, I made the decision to cut it.</blockquote>Link: J.E. Sawyer's Interrogation Website

BTW: What did Sawyer meant by this?

One of the few big things I did on Van Buren was taking an organization Chris invented and changing it (perhaps mangling it in the process) into a neo-Roman slavers' legion with all the weird titles, makeshift costumes, and traditions of that group.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Wow... Legion territory seems like a utopia... Just follow their orders and you'll live a safe and sufficient life, albeit not a free one. Well, fuck freedom, hello prosperity!

 

[CaptJ]

Wow... Legion territory seems like a utopia... Just follow their orders and you'll live a safe and sufficient life, albeit not a free one. Well, fuck freedom, hello prosperity!

It is a slight step up from typical wasteland lifestyle but it is still against human nature. Someone is going to seek power and the Legion is going to run out land or be stretched too thin.

Yes. Caesar isn't a warrior, even his lieutenants know this (Lucius is aware of Caesar's pains) and yet they still worship him. If he declared Vulpes as a proper successor then that would be like God choosing his Jesus.

Vulpes doesn't have the presence to do it and Caesar is paranoid about people doubting him or people thinking that he is giving unjust favor.

 

[Dr Fallout]

It is a slight step up from typical wasteland lifestyle but it is still against human nature. Someone is going to seek power and the Legion is going to run out land or be stretched too thin.

A slight? A slight? It's better then the living conditions in Freeside, Westside and the NCR. That's how you convince Lanius to back down.

Vulpes doesn't have the presence to do it and Caesar is paranoid about people doubting him or people thinking that he is giving unjust favor.

So doesn't Caesar. The majority of the Legion doesn't see him, yet he's worshiped. If Caesar can do it, so can Vulpes who's intelligent and known for punishing those who are not up to his standards.

 

[CaptJ]

So doesn't Caesar. The majority of the Legion doesn't see him, yet he's worshiped. If Caesar can do it, so can Vulpes who's intelligent and known for punishing those who are not up to his standards.

Vulpes has the reputation of being a professional bullshiter. Caesar has a mythos around him being a son of Mars.

A slight? A slight? It's better then the living conditions in Freeside, Westside and the NCR. That's how you convince Lanius to back down.

Security isn't the final say on happiness. People from the NCR did move to the Mojave for more opportunities. The NCR has too many strong businesses within it for up and comers to compete. Remember the NCR managed to make a train station which isn't a small feat. I doubt any other faction could have taken on the BoS before the BoS-NCR war.

Mr. House is in a situation called king-making meaning that while it couldn't win, it decides who wins. That is the only reason any of these factions care about the Courier.