The Next Best RTS for Competition and Fun...

The Vault Dweller

The Vault Dweller

always looking for water.
Is it Supreme Commander (with expansion), Command and Conquer 3 (with expansion), or Warhammer 40K Dawn of War (with expansions)?

Now first let me give you some background. I've loved strategy games for years. For the longest time I played them casually. However I eventually realised "why play a game for one month single player when I can play two months by doing online play too?". I realised that while competitive play would be challenging to the point of being stressful (bad) it would also be alot more rewarding (good) so ultimately I would get more replay value out of a game.

Boy was I wrong. Communities are so large and hardcore about their respective games there is alot more to do than just play 1v1 against players of my level. I can observe games and treat the spectacle as both learning and fun watching like a bunch of friends chatting over a game on TV. I can have deep and long discussions about game theory in chat. I can download reviews of the funniest matches (hard to explain funny in game terms) and laugh my ass off.

Needless to say I didn't just get addittional replay value, but also alot more quality too.

I played Starcraft competitive for a week before I realised there are too many good players and I stand no chance. I played Warcraft 3 for over three months and had a great time due to battlenet doing a great job of matching me with players of equal skill. However I eventually reached a level I couldn't progress past and now I need a new game.

Problem is which one? It's so great to have so many more RTS out not only worth-playing, but way better than average yet now I don't know which to start on.

It depends on two things mainly: faction balance and a wide variety of play styles.

If a game isn't properly balanced then people will all play the same faction and in the same style which will bore me to death. If a game doesn't have a wide variety of play styles it won't be much of a challenge to adjust to my opponents strategy or fun thinking of my own.

Now mind you it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced (Starcraft), but I would like it to be close (Warcraft 3). It doesn't have to have 4 factions (Warcraft 3) as I would settle with 3, but I would like that the factions be very different to provide wide play styles.(Warcraft 3).

So my question to all of you friendly and knowledgable NMA'ers. Which would be best overrall; Supreme Commander, Dawn of War, or Command and Conquer 3? I realise Dawn of War has a huge amount of factions, in fact so many more that it will probably go down in history, yet are they really much different? Supreme Commander is a much more massive game with so many more unit types, but don't they seem lacking in style? Command and Conquer 3 is supposedly true to its roots in being casual and hardcore, but are those fans new ones or old ones?

I've spent the last few days spending half my online time browsing forums for such games and watching them on youtube and on each one there are always a few people whining about balance. Thing is with no knowledge of the games I have no idea whether they are just stupid noobs who can't accept defeat or seasoned pro's that are trying to get the company to patch there game.

I appreciate any and all commentary.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

P.S.

I will play each game through eventually if only for single player so don't forget that the game you pick won't prevent me from playing the others. I just want to determine which is best online so I can start playing soon while alot of other players are also just starting out.
 
Dawn of War is a brilliant game in my opinion, although AI levels are pretty unbalanced - you crush all oposition on normal and get your ass kicked badly on hard if you won't do it via "clickfest".

I recommend you to finish the OC and all add-ons, but I think Dark Crusade and Soulstorm should suffice, as they have all the gameplay you'd need, since you can finish the game with each faction and get a unique storyline for each. Besides, the game's atmosphere is great, try playing the Space Marines and listen to what they say when given orders.

I'll write some more about it, but now I have to go.
 
Thank you for mentioning the AI intelligence...I forgot about that.

I've known of the style of the Warhammer universe since I've had multiple friends and family who've played the tabletop game and I actually would of played had it not been so freakishly expensive.

By the way I hate to sound ignorant, but what does "OC" refer too?

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
I can only comment on SupremeCommander because I haven't played the other two much. Supreme Commander is the biggest RTS I have ever played. The sheer amount of units and buildings you have is amazing. The resources are handled differently than most games because your power is handled by plants that have to be linked together to work efficiently.

Units are cheap and can be purchased and qued like most RTS games. The difference is that you have a Supreme Commander that controls so much of your base and can annihilate most enemies early on. He can be upgraded to have more weapons, teleportation abilities, and force fields. Each Supreme Commander looks differently,but they are basically giant robots.
All of the units in the game are either robots or aliens. The developers made the game like that so more people can play it without killing "people" so the game is more accesible. You can build nukes, forcefields, tanks, mechs, battleships, submarines ; so many units I cant describe them all.

The best part of the game is the giant "elite" units you can build. They cost a insane amount of resources,but they literally walk over the weaker units and have devastating weaponry. Each race has different units although some are similar. You can zoom all the way up on the units or zoom out completely where everything is shown with little symbols because its so small.The battlefield is completely visible when zoomed out and there are some HUGE maps. You can que your units to do things up until the match is over. You could literally que your units to do everything and set back and watch for 10 minutes until you would have to take control again. You would have to be pretty damned good though.
The game is balanced,but you will get seriously fucked up if you don't know how to play. This RTS is unlike any that is out at the moment. The layout of your base may be the single most important part of the game .The computer is a very good challenge to start off with, and after getting used to the game you should be able to find players with your skill level.

Now I played the game when it first came out,so I know a lot has changed. Some units were too powerful,but they corrected the issues with patches. I highly recommend Supreme Commander. At least download the demo and try it out. I just can't describe how awesome this game is without taking up the entire page.

I might add that Company of heroes while on a much smaller scale is a very good RTS.
 
I like both Supcom and Dow, never been fond of the CnC games, although it has some neat salvage options in CnC, that I haven't often seen in RTS games.

Supcom is diverse, and with the expansion they managed to balance everything but the new race (kinda funny actually) there are more functional combinations and strike tactics in SupCom (without including experimentals) that you could wile away at least a week coming up with a strategy that fits you for each race.

In DoW, it's the game I keep coming back to, but that's because of DoW XP more than just raw DoW (it's a Dark Crusade mod), in that game, with XP it rivals the diversity in units that SupCom offers and does a whole lot more tweaking, although it's still unbalanced to some extent they are working on that (Damn Eldar!)

What I like about DoW is the overall feel of the game, I honestly think Relic did a damn good job of making Warhammer 40K come alive with that game and DoW 2 is already on my pre-reg list when they announce it.

It is also my first exposure to the 40K universe, after that I sought out the comics and stories and have gleaned an even deeper enjoyment from the game catching some of the quips and their meanings that might not always be obvious to the general gamer. (For example, the IG always get the worst end of the stick in most cases, they only win because they have a nearly inexhaustible supply of recruits throughout the universe or they are properly managed by the commanders, only in Gaunt's Ghosts I have seen that kind of management though.)
 
Supreme Commander. - Thoroughly balanced, epic in scale, only problem: The battles last about 4 to 6 hours in length.

Warhammer 40K; Dawn of War/Dark Crusade/Soul Storm - This one is really fun playing online, but there's no community available. Also, factions are unbalanced. Space Marines kick the crap out of everyone else, and Necrons will annhiliate anything if given enough time to build up.

Command & Conquer 3; played this one for a while, doesn't really suit tastes/not good online competitive.

So as per my recommendation: Supreme Commander.
 
I don't know if it is because I played SupCom on my crappy PC (it's the same since 2001!), but I hated the game. The videos that I saw in YouTube are more appealing than the game itself.

C&C is great, but is not much different than other RTS's.

So Dawn of War is definitely the future, specially now that DoW 2 is comming (will be oficially announced in April; see here: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=187006). Just play the games like you said yo'll do and I'm sure you'll become another DoW addict.

Dark Legacy said:
Warhammer 40K; Dawn of War/Dark Crusade/Soul Storm - This one is really fun playing online, but there's no community available.
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What planet do you live on, man? Here's the community - one of the most active and rabid (after NMA/DAC) I know - and am part of:

http://forums.relicnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Also, the game is not as perfectly balanced as Starcraft, for example, but it's almost there.

Dark Legacy said:
Space Marines kick the crap out of everyone else
Click to expand...

Proof that if yo played this game above noob level, it was in the golden days of the Imperium in DoW (aka: Winter Assault); Space Marines are currently the weakest race in the game, sharing the ranking with the Imperial Guard.
 
Sorry for the misunderstanding - OC means Original Campaign, so the first game from the Dawn of War series.

Dawn of War 2 will be in 2009 x[ x[ x[ x[
 
i have to say that i have all those three games and that its hard to choose one when i want to play them. First of all supreme commander doesn't really an expansion pack. The second game (forged alliance) is a stand-alone but if want to all the story you should have both. But for now better stick to the first one.

i enjoyed playing the three games but i think (in my opinion) that CnC 3 is the worst. It was a good storyline, a good gameplay and some very nice units but of the three is the most weak.

Now comes the big question! SupCom or Warhammer 40,000?

Though one. SupCom has was said before as an huge amount of units and some really big maps not to mention a good campaign and a big community. Warhammer is very good too but gets left behind in therms of map space, number of available units and buildings.

In my opinion although i love the 2 games id have to say, SupCom.
Now its up to you to evaluate each game, look at the comments made to each game and decide wich one you are most interested about. Good luck.
 
Hearts of Iron II is THE ultimate real-time STRATEGY game. :P (it is not for the casual gamer... go back to xbrick and weeeee)

Seriously, I would consider playing WH40K from the three. Why? It's fun! Although it is said to be a lil' unbalanced, some consider Soulstorm to have remedied most of the problems.

C&C3 is rock solid but it's ultimately less fun than DOW.

To be honest, I don't have experience with Supcom but the art style didn't appeal me, so I missed it out.
 
Proof that if yo played this game above noob level, it was in the golden days of the Imperium in DoW (aka: Winter Assault); Space Marines are currently the weakest race in the game, sharing the ranking with the Imperial Guard.
Click to expand...

I didn't play Soul Storm yet, but in Dark Crusade; Space Marines were still the best by far. Necrons were blitzkrieged and defeated almost 4 minutes into the game, and then that led onward with a folding defeat of nearly everyone else with the assistance of predators, and the land raider - about 4 minutes later.

Dropping dreadnaughts directly into enemy territory WHILE still fighting them is an extreme advantage that shouldn't be undervalued. Let's not forget the destructive power of orbital bombardment. ;)
 
I thank all of you for your input.

As I expected and you've all said the games are worth it alone for their single player campaigns. I plan to get all of them eventually and play them for that, but it's the online competitive play I was worried about. The earlier I start playing the better before other players become too experienced as well I only have enough time to master one of the three games not all three (assuming it takes about 3 months like it did for Warcraft 3).

So far I can't decide at all whether C&C 3, Supreme Commander, or Dawn of War is better balanced or has a larger community. However I have noticed that DoW has more wide variety of play. Sure the sides are alot more similar to one another than say Nod and GDI are in C&C, but DoW has alot more factions.

Also a cousin is currently obsessed with the game and I'd like to play against him a few matches. I tested DoW at his house and I can see why everyone loves the style of the Warhammer 40k universe. I myself played a few skirmishes and started a campaign in Dark Crusade.

I'll be getting DoW. I'll repost here in a while once I finish single player and once I start online I'll post a username in case anyone wants to play me.

Oh...as for my side...well...lets just say that when I was trying to explain the population system to my cousin and strategy for my faction I had severe communication problems since speaking normal English has me miss-pronouncing the names of units and structures such that I make no sense.



WWWAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!!,
Da Vawlt Dwellah
 
Supreme Commander is THE MOST AWESOME RPS EVAR!!! if you have dual screens and an awesome rig!

I've got a quad core, 4gb ram and an 8800 GTS and its plays it beautifully on large maps on dual 19"ers!

It is truely epic but takes a lot of practice to beat the computer on hard - it takes ages to attack and then crushes you with an experimental!

All three are very good games and In my personal opinion you should just buy all three and work throught all the campaigns and expansions over the next few months!
 
None can stand against the supremity of Dawn of War.

It is inevitable that you buy it.

Plus, those that buy Soulstorm will have the opportunity to test DoW 2 multiplayer beta from what I've read on their site.
 
I concur with the Mikael on Soulstrom, I would have loved to see the SoB have the Daemonifuge, instead they pull up this Avatar knockoff.

I love the organ artillery though, nothing says class like a C Minor throwing an explosive payload at you!

As for the Dark Eldar... Hrmm... too protoss if you ask me, I used to call the Eldar protoss in disguise but it's just nuts with the Dark Eldar.

Plus the flying units required far more depth rather than an extra unit that's above the terrain/perminantly hovering.

Some Eldar units can hover, but most Imperium factions are vector thrust rather than hover capable (Thunderhawks for a bloody good example)

I own it though, 'cause I'm a nutter for DoW, but there isn't a big push for me to install it yet.
 
The Vault Dweller said:
I'll be getting DoW. I'll repost here in a while once I finish single player and once I start online I'll post a username in case anyone wants to play me.

Oh...as for my side...well...lets just say that when I was trying to explain the population system to my cousin and strategy for my faction I had severe communication problems since speaking normal English has me miss-pronouncing the names of units and structures such that I make no sense.



WWWAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!!,
Da Vawlt Dwellah
Click to expand...

Oy! We'z got another gitz fer da waaagh boyz! Let'z make it orky! Waaaaagh!!!
 
Dude, Starcraft II is light-years behind DoW 2. A new superpower commands the galaxy now, it's over, give up, GG.

Compare the screenshots (and soon the videos) and you'll see. Here is the heat of a battle in DoW 2:



Now here is the heat of a battle in SC 2:

 
Although i think starcraft II is gonna be a fantastic game dow2 will be better not only because of the new units but because of the universe itself in wich the game is set upon.
 
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