The Shi Empire

Makenshi

Makenshi

Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
The good ending (most likely canon, imo) says they form the basis of a new empire, and they were working on awesome research (radiation ban, new polymers, space travel etc).

So, how about a Shi Empire rivaling the NCR at northwestern California? We could even see the GECK-buffed Arroyo!

Since the games now cover smaller areas of the USA map, it could be set in a triple border between the east of the Shi Empire, the northwest of NCR and south of what was Oregon.
 
I always thought that it would be more interesting if the Shi became an economic and technological empire rather than a militaristic one, with settlements and the NCR becoming increasing dependent on them for high tech goods, much to their dislike.
 
They were developing new weapons and armor, it even says "they have some plans for the future". While they might no be as pushy as NCR, they could very well take some territory. but you vision is also good, maybe it could something between these two.

About Arroyo, what say you?
 
Not sure about Arroyo being GECK improved.
The ending of Fallout 2 always gave me the impression that the Arroyo tribe and the Vault 13 Dwellers established a complete new settlement together.

Personally I want the regions to go back to FO1/FO2 size and move further East to show us what those former states are like.

But it would be interesting if there were Shi ambassadors and traders amongst the NCR settlements, with the NCR people complaining that they should have absorbed the Shi and San Fransisco when they had the chance.

Like you brought up, they would deal in advanced armors and weapons, much to the dislike of the BOS who do not have access to the technology the Shi have developed.
 
But how would the Shi be in the game? Would they play a major role? Or would they just be watching from the sidelines. It sounds like they would have potential but would be to strategic and/or cowardly to do anything. I have not gotten to the San Francisco part of FO2 yet by the way, so I do not know a whole lot about the Shi beyond the basics.
 
I always thought the Shi were a total unnecessary thing added to the FO universe. I don't know, a town full of people trading Power Armors (wtf?) and advanced weaponry to each traveller but on the other hand having a kungfu rivalry in the town never kicked for me. I guess that's one of the reasons they aren't mentionend in FO:NV either, as, if they'd really rebuild their "empire", one for sure would hear a thing or two regarding them.
 
I think the Shi have to few numbers to really build an empire. I thought they and twere great though and their presence made sense.
 
Again, I was more thinking along the lines of an economical and industrial empire and not so much a militaristic one.

Sure they would annex all land around San Fransisco and have their own police and guard forces but are not into militaristic expansion.

Rather they use their wealth and influence to get what they want as they make stuff in general only places like Vault City has or the Brotherhood of Steel possesses, the bigger player like NCR prefer to keep them friends, while the poorer settlements can't afford Shi goods and are therefore not of Shi interest.
 
Didn't they say they could 'Perfect the Vertibird in a year' and then 'Perfect manufacturing of the Vertibird in another year'? Wouldn't that make them incredibly filthy rich? And adding to the violence??? All hail the shi! And their new power armor, fitted with a shoulder mounted rocket machine gun! (With matching wrist GL!) But seriously. I see the Shi having so many problems with the BoS. If they aren't absorbed into them, anyway.
 
In terms of game-world integrity, San Francisco was kind of a stink bomb. I've got nostalgic memories of it and it was nice to see my hometown in the game world, but there's really no way around it. If it were my job to wrangle the ongoing canon, my strategy for re-integrating the Shi would be to downplay and diminish:

Downplay: Yes, they're scientifically advanced; no, they can't nip off to the corner store and pick up a suit of t51-b. Yes, maybe they came from a Chi-Com submarine. No, that doesn't have to be paid much attention to, and given that they've got NCR settlements in every direction that's not covered in ocean, they'd probably be a bit more of an integrated community by this point. A bit of a martial-arts tradition might give the town some character without having to leave in any hint at all of the red-half blue-half split between rival dojos in Fallout 2 days.

Diminish: They're in a pretty bad spot when you look at it. NCR to the east, south, and north, a chapter of the Brotherhood located at the center of their holdings at the time of the Brotherhood/NCR war, and likely to see activity from the Enclave diaspora and disintegration taking place between the destruction of the rig and NCR's invasion of Navarro. Tellingly, Van Buren's plan for the city was to say that the Enclave had nuked it out of existence in retaliation for what they assumed was the city's central role in the destruction of the Poseidon rig, which seems to suggest that Black Isle as a whole either didn't like the city or didn't like having to deal with the game-world implications of its existence. Provided that it still exists at all, I'd probably make things a whole lot simpler by saying that they chose to back NCR in weeding out the Brotherhood and a Brotherhood operative formatted the Emperor supercomputer during hostilities or withdrawal operations, putting the Shi closer to the tech level of the rest of the wastes and leaving San Francisco primed and willing for peaceful incorporation into the NCR. Shi scientists would still be in high demand, especially those who had been around during the city's "golden age."
 
Of course you can't just pick up a suit of power armor. But if they can perfect Vertibirds... Can't they eventually start manufacturing their own power armor?
 
Theoretically, buuuut...

Well, not to quibble, but you can just pick up a suit of power armor, several of them, right at the general store. And they restock regularly. It's part of what made the entire concept and execution of San Francisco so problematic. The notion that a bunch of seamen managed to construct a scientific miracle palace from a wrecked submarine is a little preposterous. The fact that they regularly crank out some of the most advanced tech in the world (for their tourist trade, apparently!) with access to little more than sand, fish, and scrap (and yet remain a community of impoverished fishermen whose most seasoned guards boast nothing more than silk shirts and small arms), let alone the idea of anyone in the wastes being able to "perfect the Vertibird within a year," is out-and-out mindbending. Even if we were to accept without batting an eyelash that the Shi were the most scientifically advanced faction in the post-nuke world (which in itself is dubious, supercomputer or no), they're one city isolated on a peninsula in a world that was running out of the relevant resources before they even got started. Even the sprawling, mighty NCR doesn't have the kind of manufacturing capacity and supply chains necessary for those kinds of expenditures.

Chinatown was intended to be a power cache for the player character. "You've reached the end of the game, here are all the badass-making goodies you've been hoping for." There's no real logic to back that up, and the devs must have been on a solid Kung Fu cinema kick when they did the quest writing, to boot. If San Francisco were to re-appear in any future game installment and be taken at all seriously, the whole affair would have to be taken with several dozen grains of salt. To my mind, that means their top tech level should probably only just barely manage to make them the envy of the other high-level post-nuke governments, and even there only in a few areas of specialization.

It might help to underscore the hierarchical chasm between the citizens and the ruling body, too-- the higher-ups spend all their time in the palace developing these old-world legacy goodies, but the peasants sure aren't seeing any of it. No one ever came out and said it in F2, but the Shi were practically a feudal society. Despite the generally innocuous way they were sold and the warm and fuzzy "Shi Empire" ending slide, I actually find the whole thing to be kind of dark.
 
Scrap is good enough to make a lot of stuff with simple machinery and know-how. Or if you can bend the metal yourself, even. Scrap can turn into a jury rigged weapon. And, with time, you can gain the knowledge to make more than just a crappy pipe welded to another stick of metal. Or you can trade. Fish is food. Food is valuable. You now have a commodity that can allow you to get what you need or want. In it's basics, power armor isn't really /too/ advanced. It's basically bended sheet metal with a power source and hydraulics. In it's /basics/. And it's possible they turned out like the BoS. They turned to knowledge and tech and became smarter by reading and inspecting. Rather than just becoming bandits. As for the Kung fu thing, that's proven to be a majorly effective hand-to-hand combat style. Making you a serious danger alone against a raider with a Bone helmet and pool cue.
 
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