Torment: Tides of Numenera Screenshot, FO3 DLC sale

Going fully 3d would actually save them some time and work: you model and texture a landscape, paste buildings and props over it and the visible part of a level is done. But the point of having pre-rendered backgrounds is that you can take hand-drawn art and paste it almost straight into a game level. This way, you can have very minute details (important for fantasy games) without actually having to model them in 3d.

 

Not sure why I'm even bothering to respond, since apparently you can't be arsed to read posts that aren't really any longer than your own, but anyway...

Two problems with that:

1) It's not easier or cheaper to do 2.5D. The only reason they were even considering full 3D in the first place was because they were unsure if they would have the time and money to do it 2.5D.

2) Planescape: Torment was not made with its graphic style due to technical limitations. It was a deliberate choice. Titles released in full 3D around in 1999 include: Sonic Adventure, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, Half Life: Opposing Force, Unreal Tournament, Quake III: Arena... need I go on? Granted, most of those games weren't terribly pretty (at least by today's standards), but it was quite possible to do.

 

I'm really liking this mockup shot:

Click for high res shot

What I'd like to see is the bridge animated in such a way that each "tile" automatically assembles under the player (or NPC) as he walks across. So you start with what looks like you're stepping into empty space. I remember seeing something like that in a custom UT2k4 map and it was such a cool effect it stuck with me.

 

Oh, my mistake, I have read everything, those "tl,dr" are as a headline for others, those who don't want to read MY long posts. It seems I'm using it in a wrong way will change that.

Will not repeat any more. In short, the screenshot looks bland imo. This second one is much better. But those NPC moves are indeed great.

/edit spell

 

Oh, haha. Yeah, you're using it wrong. I thought you were saying that you weren't reading other people's posts. Apologies if I came off a bit harsh due to the misunderstanding.

 

Could you guys take this shit to PM level? 'S not really newsworthy

 

4M!

 

I hope that inXile developers be more gentle with game, lightwork in the game and art-style. Artwork of new Torment is good, but this screen...

This screen of Torment remaind me a bad collage made in Photoshop maybe in one or two hours of bored work (sorry for my opinion).

I make overpaint for inXile but can't post on Kickstarter. Because i'm not baker, because can't support second game without opportunity to look first game. Hard to believe in fact that part of team end of work and want start second project. Games can't build so fast.

http://lionwoodblog.com/temp/torment2_gamers_edition_over.jpg
http://lionwoodblog.com/temp/torment2_gamers_edition_over_compare.jpg

Previous games of inXile not be fast in development... but here... now... part of team finish the work? For me it's a strange. Because previous games of inXile made not big and not so fast.

 

To enumerate on Eumesmopo's post this article shows Torment is now the most funded KS ever.

 

That particular exchange is already over and done with, not that I really get why it should've been taken to PMs. Comments on a news post don't have to somehow be newsworthy themselves.

I'm not really sure I understood what you are saying (no offense, but your English is a little broken). However, I think the gist of it is that you (and some others) aren't happy with the screenshots? Considering those screenshots are pre-production, and the in-engine demos were slapped together in a few hours, it's definitely a little early to be worrying or complaining about the lighting, characters models, or much of anything about it, really.

 

Kyuu
No-no... it's all right. My language is very scrap. But you understand me correctly. I hope.
Just... my worries about new game started much earlier than i saw first screen. Around the time when the first game been is not finished and Brian Fargo began to raise money for the second game.

But it's a long dialog. Not yet, i think.

 

Oh that. A lot of back and forth has occurred over that decision, but Fargo's justification really makes a whole lot of sense and I'm not sure what the issue with it is.

The team responsible for doing the concept art, writing, and various other odds and ends for Wasteland 2 are effectively done. There's nothing more for them to do for Wasteland 2's development. So, Fargo has two choices: fire them (unless you want him to squander Kickstarter funds to pay developers to twiddle their thumbs?), or get them working on another project. He elected to do the latter.

 

On my experience of game development and work in industry - game can't be completed so soon. Every fragments of game - need the polishing and alteration of things which been completed. And i don't know artists (except specialists which work on voice, sound and music) which can be say - our work is complete we need new project or we will be fired. It know each newbie in industry.

I'm work like lead artist (and many other specialization in early stage of my carrier) 12 years. Almost 13. No one man (even scenarist, painter, concept-artist) can't say - "my job is done" while project have no end. It's a mif. Only sound workers hire on middle or end of project. All other people work until the last day is not come - and always have a job (task).

Between artist which work on each game project have a two main specialization - art and concept-art. I can imagine that art stage is complete, but concept-artist working always. Each game need a lot of concept-art. If you want to know how many - look at works of Adam Adamowicz.

I know official version. I'm about a team with nothing to do. But i think that isn't true. I think that Brian Fargo "forges iron" until no one game funded on Kickstarter doesn't complete. Until no people see result.

We (bakers) funded many of games at last year. But no one of developers can't be say - "we done our job - game is compete. Enjoy". And no one of these developers can't start other funding campaign while current job is not done.

You can saw how many artworks developers do when Wasteland 2 Kickstarter company is gone. Maybe 3... maybe 5. After this? Maybe 3, maybe 5. For months. Sorry i can't believe that work of artists is done. And i can't believe that some of developers hide many of these works in deeps of company.

I think that Planescape Torment that magic name for many gamers. Holy words, holy names. We ready to pay ever for piece of hope of returning game.

This is my work. Just fun art. One month lenght on painting. If I was working on Wasteland 2 - i'll never be said - my job is done. Because this just a tip of the iceberg. Tip of the iceberg of each game. We (artist) have a lot of work. Always. Even when the final bell blows. Think about it.

I can mistake, like each man on Earth. But i work in my industry and know the rules and principles of work. I have no triple-AAA titles in my portfolio, but i still have experience. Regular workers always have work. Each CEO have a plan on this workers. Freelancers can't be fired because they - freelancers. It's all. Story about workers without work - it's a legend.

Few things for review:

Each text and scenario can be change in process of game creation. Never in story scenario written on early stage transform to final version of game (movie, book) without changes. War never changes, but texts change always.

No one man on the Earth can't be say - i saw all in my mind. We people always do mistakes. We always need make polishing for our actions. Man without mistakes - is god. I never seen god in game development.

Each concept-art the little piece of game development. Concept-art need always. Now you paint metal barrel, tommorow you erase metall barrel and paint another one. Always have work which can be do better. It is impossible to draw something and leave. This can only freelancers. They can not be fired. They had already finished their work and received the following task.

Each artist have a lot of work. When game development starts, and when game ending. I'm about pre-production materials, current-production materials, and post-production materials (art, scripts, content, code & etc).

Each CEO have a plan on month, year or on lenght of a game. Situtation where someone put finger into the nose and say "i don't know what i can do for game" - It can not happen. It's impossible situation. For regular woker of course. Because if you freelancer you can say - i finish my work, what you want to do now else? But freelancer can't be fired. He work on different task and each task can be last.


EDIT:
Little more about scenarios and texts.

For example we can talking about Tim Schafer with the Double Fine Adventure. Give me please answer, where in game genres we can see more texts? In rpg or in quest? Off course in rpg. In quest we can find 10 or 20 characters, but in rpg characters and replies with text much more than in quest.

I never heard about plans of Tim Shafer to start funding company on the next game, and no heard about strange reasons where the main reason for collecting more than $ 4 million is a writer which finish his work.

It's funny, but it is very far from reality. Sorry for long thinks.

You invest in building of house your cash. Builder come to you and say:
- Pal, maybe you can help me? Give me wood planks, do nails, glasses and maybe i can build from that house. You want contribute in your future house?
- O! Yes... i do for you wooden planks. But...
- What?
- I already paid you.
- And what? You want make contribute or not?
- Mmm...
- My friend, look around, it's a great opportunity to make your house better! It's a symbolic that you can put into the walls one of your pieces. Pieces of your soul. Your emotion! Go and do wood planks.

You go and do wood planks. 5 planks. Builder see on the planks and say:
- Okey, i'm buy one.
- Why one?
- I don't like others planks.

You think about it home. You and your friends make donations, Builder reach the millions and pay for this 5 cents. For one planks. Thousands people bring to builder 5 wood planks. And Builder take one. He collect lot of wood planks. And pay for you. 5 cent. Your money. And you still can't look the your house.

- Relax boys, work on classes and roof, - i call you later. By the way, main engineer finished plan of NEW and GREAT house. Look how beautiful. Look... look! Maybe build another house?
- O... wait a moment, you cannot complete my house?
- But my engineer...
- But my house?
- What you say now?! I must to fire the engineer?
- But my...
- What I'll tell it to the children?
- But...
- What I'll tell it to his wife?
- What you need?
- Another 4 millions.
- What?!
- Main engineer finished sketch of house plan. Look how beautiful. Look...

What i want to say? I don't like the principe of crowd-development. Okey, i'm understand that crowd-funding is needed for big cases. But, crowd-development, where man who already paid for job do the job himself? It's a nonsence.

Someone somewhere can say - it's a chance to put a brick into the game history. I say that this use of the labor of others. Uses gamers who already have invested in Wasteland.

And against the background of the construction of a game begins new funding company, because... because writer is ending of scenario of first game.

Gm... it's like real life.


P.S.
What will happen after the writer writes the script for new Planescape Torment? New crowdfunding project? New unfinished game project?

By the way, - be ready to the game (Wasteland) will be delayed. With good words and reasons... but delayed. Not once.

In this case gamer have no chance to save money. Because it's a Brian Fargo, it's a Planescape Torment, our feeling love to old games, and love to great titles. Nostalgy. We pay again, again and again.

While Wasteland 2 is coming. When it's happen we make a question to himself - it's a good or bad. Era of New Renaissance. I believe in wasteland, i believe in developers, but... i can't love princip of his work. Way which he to chose. The moral aspect of the case.

Thanks for your time.

 

Very impressed with those screenshots. Not so much with your knowledge of English
I don't know which artistic path the devs will end up with, but damn man, you are good.

 

I don't see those user-made screens as being improvements. Way too much HDR washes out the background scene, and covers many texture details.

 

So what you're saying is, you think Brian Fargo is lying? Or that he's an incompetant developer? I dunno how much experience in the game industry you do or don't have (though you certainly do nice work from what I've seen you post on NMA before), but I'm pretty sure Fargo has at least some idea what he's doing. And I don't see what motivation he'd have to lie, unless you believe he's committing fraud.

Besides, just because the artists and various other members of the dev team have started preproduction on Torment doesn't mean they couldn't still do some polish work on Wasteland 2 if such a need does come up.

 

Oh... no, i'm affraid that you understand me not correct. "Liar", "incompetant" - this is a very big words. I say only that i want to say. He is very good businesman, great developer with a great story. Legendary guy which made in collaboration with a very talented people many good games.

I just say that i can't believe in some things. Versions. And also i say that i can't love the way which been chosen.

Tell me... do you believe in all that you listen around? TV? Magazines? News? I think... answer is No. Because if answer - Yes, our discuss is over. In real life each thing have a many versions of True. Politely "true", official version of "true". Unofficial "true" and many... many of versions of different "True".

When my government say me from TV screens something, - often i smile, but in more variants of this - i can see official versions, and versions behind official. I love be politely.

Game development - it's a bussines. Real bussines like trade of gasoline, or... paper. No matter what type of product you sold. Important how you trade. Important slogans, face of trader, reputation, charming, speach skills of trade and more important things.

And only one type of people can trade things good. Businesman. Brian Fargo - good businesman. He know when product can be sold good. Fargo where he was before? All these years? Do business.

But now we can see a big wave. And the best surfers of old school times climbed on her. Now we can see the best of them. Best... but not all. Many of creators of good old games cannot trade. Because they - not traders. Over the top stay only bussines man. Only people who can do good bussines.

People who can forges iron.


You remember Troika games? They was a good businessman? I think no... but they was a real creators with a big litera "C" - Creators. Demiurgs. Westwood Studios ... was a good businessmen? No. But they cool creators.

They have the right to return? Come back to us? We want that they come back? YES! But ...... they are not businessmen. He creators. Artist. Painters. So far only those survive who know how to trade. Brian Fargo - can do it. They - not.

You thinks that good bussines man's always speak true? All who know rules of trade try to sell most of all products. And it's all. No mirracle under moon. You tell all of traders that they liar? No. Because it's a traders. You tell for all politican that they - liars? No... Because that this people who know how they can do job is good. Not a liars.

Why you say me that i say that Brian Fargo liar? I say that Brian Fargo is good bussines man. It's all.

For example:

Game based on TV Show "Walking Dead" named Walking Dead: Survival Instinct. Great actors - Norman Reedus & Michael Rooker. Love it. In interview on game they told about game like about great movie. They believe in they roles. But game is not good. And what? We say that Michael Rooker lier? Not. Never. Because it's a bussines. Marketing. All of our world stay on marketing.

No offense, but many of what we listen from Brian Fargo is marketing. Good words in right place. All of this words it's a bullets. Targeted on us. You. Me. We targets in this battle. Battle for gamer. Battle for potencial player. And if product is not good - we still hear the right words.

When you buy in the shop milk... it's not a milk. A cocktail of different pieces ... and not all of these things - milk. Real Milk - on the farm. But all this does not matter. You still buy milk at the store. And you will drink it. And you will be pleased.

Who liar in this case? Trader who sold you milk? Company who research the cocktail? Company who mixed cocktail? Or maybe man, who invent recipe of this cocktail?

Do not wave the banner on a stick "liar" until you is not sure that the person in front of you - a liar. Or do not wave the banner on a stick "he said that ... that ... the other person - a liar," until you're sure that he ... did say that the other person is a liar.

No offense. Maybe i'm understand you wrong. My english is very limited. And bad.

 

I don't think your version is better at all. But I like some of your other stuff.

 

Rick Lion, you make great points. My sentiments exactly, actually.

Also, Kyuu - while his competence as a developer isn't really in question (not really the issue); personally, it's his competence as CEO I'm worried about. Just look at what he did with (to) Interplay.