Troika gone belly up?

[Roshambo]

Why? Maybe BioWare would then start developing half-decent games for a change.

Naturally, they could then take the time to show BioWare how to do it right, considering it was BioWare's first move as "RPG developers" to only partially rip off Fallout's speech system and quest system into an RTS engine.

A lawsuit costs money, particularly for the plaintiff. They'd have to close down the offices anyways.

Lawsuits also take another thing.

Time.

 

[Mandrew]

Mandrew = Andrew Meggs, Lead Programmer for Bloodlines.

While I would have answered the question myself...posting someone else's real-life info without permission is pretty much universally considered a rude thing to do.

It sounds like Activision didn't pay them for the final build and the last milestone for Bloodlines. That would explain the bugs, the slow patching and the overall unpolished quality of the game.

That's pretty far off the mark. There's a huge amount I could say about what things that went both right and wrong, on both Vampire's development and Troika's business, but if you were me, would you post any of that to this forum?

 

[Sol Invictus]

While I would have answered the question myself...posting someone else's real-life info without permission is pretty much universally considered a rude thing to do.

Is it now? I didn't know it was rude to publish information people could have probably found out on their own just by looking it up. Or is it unversally considered a rude thing to do as well?

That's pretty far off the mark. There's a huge amount I could say about what things that went both right and wrong, on both Vampire's development and Troika's business, but if you were me, would you post any of that to this forum?

I would, if it helped to set the record straight and remove any unnecessary speculation without inflaming anyone. You could always be political about it, post a few relevent facts, and let people figure out the opinions on their own. No one's asking you to make any conclusions for us.

Some people are pretty dead set in blaming Activision for all the mishaps while others are intent on putting the blame to Troika's management (or mismanagement, as it were). That can't be helped.

 

[Mandrew]

I would, if it helped to set the record straight and remove any unnecessary speculation without inflaming anyone.

But there's the rub...any time you say "X went wrong", there's someone who knows they were responsible for X, and knows you're publicly casting blame their way.

And ultimately, knowing these things won't make any difference in whether the games produced by Troika were fun for you, which is all it's about in the end.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Fair enough.

 

[greatatlantic]

Yeah, I don't think Exitium told me anything that wasn't already common knowledge to more veteran posters at this forum, but he could have been more polite with his comeback.

Anyways, I'm rather hesitant to blame Activision. Activision did allow for a longer development cycle, and it was Activision who did the voice talent. On the other hand, it was Activision who did (or didn't do) the quality assurance.

Yet, if Activision is having its own financial difficulties... Several insiders recently sold their stock, which is very suspicious. However, their most recent earning statements were pretty solid. I want to say they were Activision's best ever. It would take Arthur Anderson to reconcile the two.

Anyways, something went wrong. Either Troika planned things out very badly, Activision reniged on some moneys, or Valve and their Source Engine came with way to many strings attached. Either way, we know a company can't keep going without a current project, but if they were laying people off before Bloodlines shipped, thats suspicious.

Is there anything you can say that will alleviate the ignorance with out offending the parties? I'm willing to believe that the market was just to small for PC RPGs and no one wants to touch them unless its MMO or DnD. Sad, but quite possibly true.

 

[Mandrew]

Yet, if Activision is having its own financial difficulties... Several insiders recently sold their stock, which is very suspicious. However, their most recent earning statements were pretty solid. I want to say they were Activision's best ever. It would take Arthur Anderson to reconcile the two.

What's suspicious there? When a company posts good earnings, it's almost always a very profitable time to sell stock in that company.

 

[Briosafreak]

greatatlantic i know you´re trying to help out the PlanetVampire people with fresh info, but maybe Mandrew posts are enough info for now, and the more pressing matter is to know what is going to happen to the founding trio, Troika assets and the remaining employees.

On the causes we could wait a while until things get clearer and whatever is happening in the backstage has some sort of finality to it.

Mandrew tone has been the apropriate for the moment, and we should thank him for taking his time to share these small bits of info.

If anyone else wants to join without the real name to be uncovered register with some random nick and contact an admin with enough data so they could know it isn´t a joker. We had lots of Interplay employees discussing at depth the situation they were on, and nothing happened to them, it would be good that the same thing happens to former or present Troika members.

Carry on now, sorry for the OT.

 

[Gonchi]

I'm willing to believe that the market was just to small for PC RPGs and no one wants to touch them unless its MMO or DnD. Sad, but quite possibly true.

Well, in my case, my PC didn't even meet the minimum requirements.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who were interested had the same problem. Or maybe I'm the only moron who won't upgrade his PC every year.

 

[greatatlantic]

What's suspicious there? When a company posts good earnings, it's almost always a very profitable time to sell stock in that company.

I think the sale actually came before the announcement. If it was one person selling I wouldn't think twice about it, but apparently quite a few people did simultaneously. You are right, though. There is no reason to believe Activision is having financial trouble, except for that stock sale. Here's a link: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/02/10/news_6118375.html.

Beyond that, thank you for giving the community your input, Mandrew. Your name doesn't have the developer tag that seems standard here, so I wasn't sure what to make of your post, plus I didn't know your exact position in the industry. If you ever want to come to the planetvampire forums, the fans there would love to hear about the making of Bloodlines, and what not. Please forgive my... excessive angst.

Briosafreak, yeah, I am a regular at planetvampire, and I do try to pass on what tidbits I come across. However, my curiousity is the one everyone shares, just what is happening with Troika, and how did they go from considering a third team to liquidation?

 

[darkmistx]

Well, let's face it. It's a cut-throat business and any company that manages to stay in business for 7 years has done well.

I think the problem is there that are too many players in the industry and not enough of a market to justify the amount of players.

I think the Japanese model of game development seems to work better. A few big powerhouses that employ many people and have their own dedicated studios and the ability to develop many games simultaneously, which ensures better financial stability.

Too many companies with very fragile prospects, hoping that their game sells well enough to keep them in business for another few years.

 

[welsh]

Mandrew = Andrew Meggs, Lead Programmer for Bloodlines.

While I would have answered the question myself...posting someone else's real-life info without permission is pretty much universally considered a rude thing to do.

Indeed. Exitium perhaps should have been more decent about this, but he wasn't. I am not sure how this occurred. Perhaps he tracked the email address on your profile?

As Briosafreak has posted, in the past we've had developers posting without their private identities being revealed. That privacy was breached by a poster (and not one of our staff), might suggest that you have not done what you could to maintain your anonymity.

That posters might be suspicious about supposed "insiders'" posting details from the industry, especially when there are so many fakes, should be expected.

It is unfortunate that this occurred and I would hope posters would be more respectful of other's privacy in the future. As for developers or others in the industry, they should contact the admins if they wish to take greater care of their privacy.

 

[Roshambo]

Is it now? I didn't know it was rude to publish information people could have probably found out on their own just by looking it up. Or is it unversally considered a rude thing to do as well?

Not to really harp on Andrew's case (more like to point out the obvious for Special Thor at Gamespot), but he really didn't bother to hide it. You can't play the personal information card when it is plainly obvious. Mythic hasn't had a Meggs before, and in fact there's only one Meggs that I can find in the entire industry. Then we put on our super-secret detective hats and decoder rings and split the a from ameggs, and also came up with the startling coincidence of the user name. Mandrew...hey, if you split the M off, you get Andrew...whoa! Hey, this guy is also talking about Troika and talks as if he's familiar with them...no, couldn't be someone from Troika, not with that kind of information and domain e-mail, despite having said someone went to Mythic in the same post. Then we look in the Vampire: Bloodlines manual.

We are discovering all sorts of clever tricks today, folks!

In any case, if you have problems stating that "X went on" because it's going to step on some toes, then that just reflects on the sad state of the industry where feelings and asskissing are taken into account over the reality of what went on. Mind, this isn't directed at you personally, Andrew, but it is the state of things. Of course, we could also go by the industry standard and forget about you, Bloodlines, and anything that went on around it once the Next Shiny Thing™ comes along and the industry does the same stupid trick/mistake, and the media is expected to perform backflips and mindlessly regurgitate information like poor Thor.

Spider-Man 2 PC was teh bestest game, evah, because Activision tells me so!

The mentality of "sweep it under the rug" is only more damaging than anything, as it only breeds a hell of a lot more speculation. Thank you, though, for giving more information.

 

[greatatlantic]

Well, by my calculations from Eastern Standard time to Pacific, the sale called for in the email should be over by now. Is there any proof that such a sale occured? I would like to know if the thing was a very bad mannered hoax or Troika going out with a sense of humor.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Hey, thanks for setting things right Rosh. It's good to see that some of us haven't lost our minds to asskissery and mindless sycophantism. Yes, Welsh, I'm talking about you.

Figuring out who Andrew Meggs was a matter of elementary. He practically disclosed his identity with his nickname.

 

[lytlebill]

A friend of mine who lives in the Irvine area did go to the sale, and yes, it was real.

He even ended up talking to Tim Cain about some networking gear. My buddy says he's a nice guy.

 

[SimpleMinded]

A friend of mine who lives in the Irvine area did go to the sale, and yes, it was real.

He even ended up talking to Tim Cain about some networking gear. My buddy says he's a nice guy.

I'd feel guilty going to a sale of Troikas stuff, it's like a vulture preying on a dear friend... e gads, just wouldn't seem right to me.

 

[Claw]

Well, in my case, my PC didn't even meet the minimum requirements.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who were interested had the same problem. Or maybe I'm the only moron who won't upgrade his PC every year.

My PC is well over a year old and easily surpasses the minimum requirements without having been high-end when I first built it. So meh.

 

[Gonchi]

Well, in my case, my PC didn't even meet the minimum requirements.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who were interested had the same problem. Or maybe I'm the only moron who won't upgrade his PC every year.

My PC is well over a year old and easily surpasses the minimum requirements without having been high-end when I first built it. So meh.

Guess my PC just sucks then.

 

[Tannhauser]

Great, so we have one person who meets the minimum requirements and one who doesn't. Yes, there is a variety of computers out there, the point is?

Anyway, even computers that met the minimum requirements suffered problems with the game. Both the stuttering and excessively long loading times afflicted some players with more than passable computers.

Anyway, does absolute blame have to lie with one party or the other? Isn't it far more plausable that a number of poor decisions on all parts led to the present situation?