Trusty weapon
- Thread starter Arachnivore
- Start date
Stephen Amber
First time out of the vault
Well I would say exploiting a really bad rule rather than cheating. If a game, unhacked, allows something it's not really cheating.
In fallout 2, if you do enough caravan runs, eventually you can watch two different factions eradicate each other then pick up a mini-gun, laser rifle, or whatever in the aftermath... weapons likely far more valuable, and deadly, than what you are currently using. That's the exploitation of poor design.
In fallout 2, if you do enough caravan runs, eventually you can watch two different factions eradicate each other then pick up a mini-gun, laser rifle, or whatever in the aftermath... weapons likely far more valuable, and deadly, than what you are currently using. That's the exploitation of poor design.
Stephen Amber
First time out of the vault
With a mini gun or laser rifle when the best you got is a shot gun or assault rifle? Of course not...
Plus all you have to do is stand back while they kill each and step in at the end. Might take a couple reloads, but you can get all the good shit relatively early in the game that way... All it takes is one or two trips down to the california republic.
Plus all you have to do is stand back while they kill each and step in at the end. Might take a couple reloads, but you can get all the good shit relatively early in the game that way... All it takes is one or two trips down to the california republic.
THAT is a design flaw.
If the caravan is decimated, you should be penalised. After all, your job is to protect the caravan.
If the caravan is decimated, you should be penalised. After all, your job is to protect the caravan.
Jame Hammer
First time out of the vault
I guess it would need to be something else than a weapon, or something that could be used for various purposes (in addition to the pip boy) - Indiana Jones's whip is not just a weapon - it's a tool and a fashion statement 
...like the swiss army knife for McGyver, the katana for Blade, the walking stick for daredevil, and the crowbar for Gordon Freeman...
But to think what could be a useful gizmo in a post apocalyptic world is beyond me at the moment, but surely food for thought...
...like the swiss army knife for McGyver, the katana for Blade, the walking stick for daredevil, and the crowbar for Gordon Freeman...But to think what could be a useful gizmo in a post apocalyptic world is beyond me at the moment, but surely food for thought...
I tend to agree with Rosh that having the use of a weapon build its utility breaks the paradigm for RPGs where you "Learn by not doing"; such as in D&D where if you want to learn to use a weapon better you select the feat that lets you use it; and in Fallout where you put skill points into its skill.
Why not impliment Perks to do much the same thing; but instead of adding to the weapon they add to the character; for example someone with over 100% in small guns could get the following:
PERK:
Shotgun Surgeon
You have mastered the use of the scattergun as a weapon. You deal extra damage with a shotgun; move one step up the critical hit table when using shotguns, and any critical to a limb automatically criples it. You also use special shotgun ammo that would normally incur a penalty without said penalty.
PERK:
Trick Shot
You have become an especially skilled pistol user. Your pistols never jam; you can shoot them faster, and you can weild a light or medium pistol in each hand at a reduced penalty and reload magazine fed pistols thus weilded as normally. Your knowledge of handgun behavior allows you to makeke a shot beyond a pistol's normal range, as well.
PERK:
Rifleman
You are lord of all things rifle. You know just where to shoot, dealing extra damage and moving one step up the critical table. A critical to the head or eyes will always kill a man. Your semiautomatic, repeating, or single-shot rifles will never jam and your automatic rifles will do so with greatly reduced frequency. You make faster bayonette attacks and never break your weapon when striking with the buttstock. You can make an effective shot beyond your weapon's normal range.
PERK:
My Strength
(In Hebrew: Uzi)
To master the machine pistol is difficult indeed, but the rewards are great. With this perk in place you can fire a burst with more accuracy, weild and reload an SMG in each hand (Excepting rifle-scale weapons like a Thompson or PPSh, etc) at reduced penalty, and any such weapons in your skilled hands will jam with much less frequency. You can also reliable squeeze off single shots from auto-only SMGs like the Grease Gun and PPS-43.
Why not impliment Perks to do much the same thing; but instead of adding to the weapon they add to the character; for example someone with over 100% in small guns could get the following:
PERK:
Shotgun Surgeon
You have mastered the use of the scattergun as a weapon. You deal extra damage with a shotgun; move one step up the critical hit table when using shotguns, and any critical to a limb automatically criples it. You also use special shotgun ammo that would normally incur a penalty without said penalty.
PERK:
Trick Shot
You have become an especially skilled pistol user. Your pistols never jam; you can shoot them faster, and you can weild a light or medium pistol in each hand at a reduced penalty and reload magazine fed pistols thus weilded as normally. Your knowledge of handgun behavior allows you to makeke a shot beyond a pistol's normal range, as well.
PERK:
Rifleman
You are lord of all things rifle. You know just where to shoot, dealing extra damage and moving one step up the critical table. A critical to the head or eyes will always kill a man. Your semiautomatic, repeating, or single-shot rifles will never jam and your automatic rifles will do so with greatly reduced frequency. You make faster bayonette attacks and never break your weapon when striking with the buttstock. You can make an effective shot beyond your weapon's normal range.
PERK:
My Strength
(In Hebrew: Uzi)
To master the machine pistol is difficult indeed, but the rewards are great. With this perk in place you can fire a burst with more accuracy, weild and reload an SMG in each hand (Excepting rifle-scale weapons like a Thompson or PPSh, etc) at reduced penalty, and any such weapons in your skilled hands will jam with much less frequency. You can also reliable squeeze off single shots from auto-only SMGs like the Grease Gun and PPS-43.
Ashmo said:
I think he ment when the caravan met two other warring parties like a merchant party and remnant mutants....
what is the story with the remnant army anyway? it seems like they could have whiped the wastelenders collective
butt with the vaultdweler and Bos gone?
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
The BoS isn't gone, it's just in another place, at another time, a has been organization, as far as we know it. The remnant has no leader, no breeding ground(the vats are gone) and no resupply of ammunitions, thus no military strength.Arquebus said:
Personally, the way Fallout handled experience was excellent. Changes can't really be made that will appease everyone, but some of the suggestions would be good to be put into play, just to see if they work.
Player specific perks as Lord342 stated would be great to see in practice too.
Player specific perks as Lord342 stated would be great to see in practice too.
Lazarus Plus
The smoovest
The idea of weapon type specific perks isn't a bad idea, overall. The ones Lord 342 suggested are probably overpowered, though.
Were you suggesting akimbo for the Trick Shot, by the the way?
Were you suggesting akimbo for the Trick Shot, by the the way?
no more so than sniper. I would expect other game balancing prerequisites but since the ultimate game mechanics are undecided, well...Lazarus Plus said:
Yes. Nothign wrong with it if treated appropriately. You fire a gun in each hand if the situation demands quantity of lead over accuaracy of shots. Real "trick shooters" can do this with some accuracy. No matrix-y crap, just old-west style two-fisted gunfighting.
Arquebus said:
Again, FICTIONAL ALTERNATE TIMELINE UNIVERSE. As in having NOTHING TO DO with "my suggestions are based on real life gun adjustments, improvments, as would the upgrades for other weapons would be", when I pointed out that Fallout doesn't involve anything of the sort. Instead, it's setting-specific upgrades like changing a capacitor charge on a plasma rifle or something of the sort, while also fitting into the P&P ruleset. Which the "+2 Pistolgrip of OMFG Munchkin" doesn't quite fit into.
Sorry if you missed the point of the hyperbole others used before.
RPGenius said:
It doesn't make terrible sense (in the "wild-west context) but it was a popular image in the cowboys-and-indians films that were popular in the 50s and the 50s influence heavily (but not totally) on the fallout universe. It was not until the past 6 or 7 years that akimbo gunfighting became anything beyond simply shooting 2 guns at once. Which is how it should be.
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It's not shooting 2 guns at once though, you watch those old westerns about the only time they'd shoot two pistols simulaneously was when lying in ambush for someone to come through a door. In a gunfight they'd always fire the guns alternately. They'd aim and fire one gun and then while recocking (whatever) they'd aim and fire the second, then while the second is being readied they'd fire the first. Sure some people can do that real fast, perhaps even without losing too much accuracy but does it really fit with Fallout's style and combat system?Lord 342 said:
Except for the lack of graphical representation you can do this with the current system, a pistol in each slot, there's no penalty for changing between slots so fire once, switch, then fire the other pistol, switch... Oh yeah there's also no penalty for waiting for the revolver's chamber to go round and the hammer to be pulled back etc unless you're talking ap cost of firing a revolver over an automatic? So really your perk would need to halve the ap cost if two pistols are equipped, but at the cost of accuracy. But then again, I'd stick with using one handgun and make my (fewer) shots count.