Truth about Fahrenheit

[c0ldst33ltrs4u]

I hated the part where Moore listed the allies of the US, among them was Romania, my beloved country, wich was represented by a shoer scene from first Dracula movie (or one of the first ). I find that unfair because even if we don't have much of an army the men that get sent abroad on behalf of Romania are well prepared and well disciplined, they were always well spoken of. And some of them died in Iraq. So as far as I am concerned Moore is a just another wank.
I found the part where he asked those guys from capitol Hill to enlist their children nice.

 

[John Uskglass]

I hated the part where Moore listed the allies of the US, among them was Romania, my beloved country, wich was represented by a shoer scene from first Dracula movie (or one of the first ). I find that unfair because even if we don't have much of an army the men that get sent abroad on behalf of Romania are well prepared and well disciplined, they were always well spoken of. And some of them died in Iraq. So as far as I am concerned Moore is a just another wank.

*nods*
I actually found it more culturally insensitive then any thing I've ever seen. THe BUSH LOVES ARABS OMFG montage was IMHO the worst part of the movie, and I did'nt care for it.

You Orthoodx?

I found the part where he asked those guys from capitol Hill to enlist their children nice.

Also stupid. He knows that's not even legal.

agree that the USPATRIOT Act (PATRIOT is an acronym) was a very very stupid thing, but the fact remains that comparing the USA today to 1984 is exaggerating, and that is something I have a clear dislike for.

It's not stupid as such. It was reactionary. Still, Germany went with the Natzis after the bombing of the Reichstag, we put in the patriot act so we can properly deal with the most insane people in the world.

offcourse lying is not a nice thing to do. but Moore has a directive: make people hate Bush. simple. he achieves this by turning and twising facts and succeeds (still hard to believe that Bush won't sue him btw.). i'm not saying that it's morally justified to lie about things like this (if it's really lieing or just misinformed is something i can't judge about), but Moore achieves what he wants. and untill the public can have a public, official statement that Moore lied, i'm not going to bash Moore. i may be a deranged conspiracy theorist, but it would certainly not be the first time things like this happen. i may have to swallow my words though, but that's allright.

Karl Rove = evil becasue he lies
Michael Moore = great becasue he lies

yes he is. but it isn't just him. it's the people that pass laws like the Patriot Act (which is far from patriotic) which goes directly against the first amedment. that's a huge threat towards the free (HA!) world today, because this means that with a terroristic threat as excuse, it's possible to take people's freedom. and that is a big advantage.

You simply have'nt read 1984 Comrade.

 

[c0ldst33ltrs4u]

ccr: Yep, I'm an Orthodox.

You simply have'nt read 1984 Comrade.

We are still very far away from the horror portrayed in 1984, although the communists were headed in the right direction, they made people snitch on each other and made it seem normal, they could trace your calls, intercept all your mail, and that created just the right atmosphere. It needed was more time and one more essential thing: the never ending war with one of the two other superpowers. The continual state of emergency and constant threat was the element that guaranteed the obedience of the masses, it justified the lack of food and other commodities and kept everyone under pressure.

 

[John Uskglass]

ccr: Yep, I'm an Orthodox.

Might be an odd question but....ever met a Gagavuz Turk? They're in southern Moldova. Just wanted to ask 'cause they're pretty interesting (to people interested in both Turkish and Orthodox studies)

We are still very far away from the horror portrayed in 1984, although the communists were headed in the right direction, they made people snitch on each other and made it seem normal, they could trace your calls, intercept all your mail, and that created just the right atmosphere. It needed was more time and one more essential thing: the never ending war with one of the two other superpowers. The continual state of emergency and constant threat was the element that guaranteed the obedience of the masses, it justified the lack of food and other commodities and kept everyone under pressure.

How old where you with Chechescu?

 

[quietfanatic]

I still haven't seen the film yet, but it sounds like he is sabotaging his credibility just to try to convince some bible belt hicks who will vote for Bush anyway. If he wants truly effective propaganda he could at least hit 'em with the truth, which when presented well is all powerful. I am sure there are plenty of problems with Bush's regime, without the need to create imaginary ones. If not, then Bush shouldn't be mauled by Moore to further some unseen agenda (even though it is fun to attack politicians).

Maybe Moore has just fallen for the love of easy money gained from shock value and inadequate research.

Down with extremistists!

 

[Bradylama]

It's not stupid as such. It was reactionary. Still, Germany went with the Natzis after the bombing of the Reichstag, we put in the patriot act so we can properly deal with the most insane people in the world.

A bill that gives the government the ability to violate a citizen's right to due process is stupid. When something is reactionary, its generally stupid, and not thought through.

I can't believe you're trying to justify this.

 

[welsh]

One thing I liked about the film was that it showed things that most of the public missed.

The black citizens asking the Senate to order a recount in Florida and being ignored for instance- while I think the Senate was right, it's something a lot of folks forget.

Or Bush being the first president to get egged on the way back to the white house taking the oath of office.

 

[John Uskglass]

Or Bush being the first president to get egged on the way back to the white house taking the oath of office.

I actually think this looks badly on the Liberals, not even giving a fiarly elected president a chance before they hate him.

The black citizens asking the Senate to order a recount in Florida and being ignored for instance- while I think the Senate was right, it's something a lot of folks forget.

I largely veiw the JEBB WON HIM THE ELECTION conspiricy as an urban legend, but yeah, you have a point.,

One thing I liked about the film was that it showed things that most of the public missed.

I hate how he did'nt mention that Bush won all the reelection tallys heald; so if the Supreme Court had decided to have them you'd still have Bush II on the throne.

 

[c0ldst33ltrs4u]

How old where you with Chechescu?

I was 7 in '89 when he went down. None the less I remember the lines that formed in front of every store. The people began to assemble at around 4 or 5 am. The goods got delivered to the store at around 11 or 12 am, that is if they came at all. And every thing was rationalized, even the bread. When the asshole decided he was going to pay the external debt the electricity, the hot watter, the gas, the natural gas they were all in short supply. You only had electric power a couple of hours per day, one or two hours in the morning and two or three in the evening. If you wanted to buy any appliance you had to be put on a waiting list, a fucking long one because everything was planned, even the fucking coffins and nails. But I have to admit one thing: we had money to spare. Why? Because you could not buy anything with them, they were mostly useless, glorified toilet paper. And then there was no freedom of speech, you did not know who to trust, that is if you were brave or dumb enough to trust anyone. Your neighbor could turn you in for even the smallest thing.
Such horrors must never be allowed to plague humanity ever again!

....ever met a Gagavuz Turk?

Can't say that I have. Religion has never been my thing... I am a Christian and I strive to respect the Christian morals and generally be a decent human being but that is about it.

 

[Sander]

It's not stupid as such. It was reactionary. Still, Germany went with the Natzis after the bombing of the Reichstag, we put in the patriot act so we can properly deal with the most insane people in the world.

ARGH! Shut up about that, already. It's as faulty as it gets, because it's utter bullshit. At the time when Hitler came to power and for the several years following (in the same period we are in now) the actions Hitler took were seen as beneficial and necessary to deal with insane people in the world and other "emergencies". YOu haven't a clue whether in hindsight the PATRIOT Act will or will not turn out to be disastrous, and I don't either.
But comparing it favorably to Germany of the 1930s is stupid, for one because the entire situation was completely different (there was really a much greater us v. them feeling between left and right, extremely poor economy, extremely poor people, extremely high unempkoyment rate, a constantly threatening Russia in the east and a huge anger at the Treaty of Versailles), for two because you can judge at this stage whether it will turn out to have been beneficial or not.