Unkillable Children and Can You Mod Them Out

Silencer

Silencer

Night Watchman
Staff member
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The Polish site Gry-Online.pl posted their preview and Q&A on Fallout 3, the most interesting bits deal with the level of "mature stuff" in F3 and whether Bethesda is going to release modding tools. <blockquote>Shuck: Allegedly there are supposed to be children in-game. Are you going to be able to kill them, like in previous titles?

Emil: That we do not know yet. It is one of the most important topics to think out. The thing is, we're dealing with a next-gen game and we're not only talking about killing, but exploding heads and eye balls rolling down the street. As a designer, you need to ask yourself if you want such elements in the game.

Shuck: We're also dealing with an RPG game, which should leave as many choices as it can to the player.

Emil: Indded, but there are a lot of problems that need to be taken into account.

Shuck: So tbe children are not neccessarily going to appear in Fallout 3?

Emil: They will positively be there, but we don't know if they can be killed.</blockquote>So, we now know "next-gen" is newspeak for "graphic violence". Also, aren't children NOT DYING from a metal bar to the head a bit of a Tom&Jerry syndrome?

Furhter uncomfortable questions deal with modding tools:<blockquote>Shuck: Do you plan to support the modding community by providing them with tools?

Emil: We don't know yet - we're discussing it. It is something we've done for Oblivion, but this doesn't automatically mean we'll do the same for Fallout. The truth is, preparing such tools takes a lot of time, and this is time lost to production of the actual game. We shall see.

Shuck: Is this caution caused by the trouble caused to you by the infamous Oblivion mod?

Emil: No. But it is a fact that when you release modding tools, you loose a great deal of control over your game.</blockquote>The author also mentions the Tactics Brotherhood of Steel, but this can be a misinterpretation, since it is known that Tactics stroyline is not taken into account.

Link: Fallout 3 First Impressions at Gry-Online.pl

Spotted at Necropolis
 
I can understand not being able to kill children. Jack Thompson and the ESRB would give them a hard time. And they'd give any company nowadays a hard time if they added killable children. Just goes to show you that though Black Isle could get away with it ten years ago, they probably couldn't today.
 
Ah well...even if there is a modding system one won't be able to change the core of the game and the issues that come with it (just like it was in oblivion). We hardly would be able to change what's needed to be changed to make this a good fallout sequel (wich is a lot... :? ).

"Infamous Oblivion Mod"? what the hell is that, might I ask?

Since this game will obviously be a mass marklet hit following the footsteps of oblivion, it's a good choice for them to choose not to implement childrens death. I mean, think about all the games that got banned in several countries. In Brazil (my country) , Duke Nuken, Postal, Carmaggedon and several other games are banned from being commercially distributed.
 
Hmmm, I imagine the devs would be pretty wary. Still, if the content isn't in the original game code to begin with with, then the game rating cannot be changed. On top of that, the game is going to be a definite M anyways.

Still, at the end of the day I don't think there will be killable children. ISO RPGs of the day could get away with it because they reached a smaller market, and from top down where less graphic and less "immersive" (emphasize the quotes you haters). When GTA came along, all the killing people in full 3-D and the mass popularity of the game brought the issue to attention. Fallout 3 is currently building off of a large hype machine, and shiny first person next gen graphics. Any child killing in this game would definitely raise the ire of a few vocal whack-jobs and alot of vote hungry politicians (elections right around the corner in the US).

Still, mod tools or no mod tools there'll probably be a child-killing mod withing a month or two of the game's release.

"Infamous Oblivion Mod"? what the hell is that, might I ask?
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A mod which allowed the player to fully remove female character's clothing and reveal breast models. Since the breast models where still hard-coded into the game, this resulted in a rating change for Oblivion from T to M.
 
El_Smacko said:
A mod which allowed the player to fully remove female character's clothing and reveal breast models. Since the breast models where still hard-coded into the game, this resulted in a rating change for Oblivion from T to M.
Click to expand...

Hm.... I thought I read that it was actually just the male texture slapped onto the female model..... Then again I don't really know.
 
So won't be able to kill kids, but at least I hope we wil be able to do some other evil thinks to them.Something like destroying mistr Nixons doll, that was really satisfying:)
 
El_Smacko said:
Still, at the end of the day I don't think there will be killable children. ISO RPGs of the day could get away with it because they reached a smaller market, and from top down where less graphic and less "immersive" (emphasize the quotes you haters). When GTA came along, all the killing people in full 3-D and the mass popularity of the game brought the issue to attention. Fallout 3 is currently building off of a large hype machine, and shiny first person next gen graphics. Any child killing in this game would definitely raise the ire of a few vocal whack-jobs and alot of vote hungry politicians (elections right around the corner in the US).
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I think that problems that GTA got had more to do with the whole game being centered around sociopathic behaviour of the protagonist, than with possibility of killing people.
 
It would be stupid if they didn't release a construction kit. The reason Morrowind/Oblivion are as big as they are today, is largely down to the modders - many console gamers have bought the PC version of said games just to get access to the fan content (which has massively improved both games).

They are using the feking oblivion engine already, the CK they released for Oblivion is supposedly the same tool they used themselves (and they never released exporters) - how much effort did they put into it? Fuck all. As for it taking production time that's also a joke, the Oblivion kit didn't get released till after the game had gone gold, so any minor changes they may have made probably happened after too.

The truth, I suspect, is that they don't want humble modders competing with their shitty premium plug-ins on the PC, very surprised tho to see Emil state that word 'control' so blatently. It's a wonder they let him do interviews, he's not exactly a zen master of teh spin :P
 
Emil: No. But it is a fact that when you release modding tools, you loose a great deal of control over your game.
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Wait. What? Control? For a game that's already been developed and released?
The only "control" would be keeping a captive audience for their own mods which they charge money for.
Way to go Emil, it's not enough that you're ruining Black Isle's legacy, you're thinking about ruining Bethesda's too!

El_Smacko said:
Still, at the end of the day I don't think there will be killable children. ISO RPGs of the day could get away with it because they reached a smaller market, and from top down where less graphic and less "immersive" (emphasize the quotes you haters). When GTA came along, all the killing people in full 3-D and the mass popularity of the game brought the issue to attention. Fallout 3 is currently building off of a large hype machine, and shiny first person next gen graphics. Any child killing in this game would definitely raise the ire of a few vocal whack-jobs and alot of vote hungry politicians (elections right around the corner in the US).
Click to expand...

You know what they say, any publicity is good publicity.
The only danger is in the ESRB slapping them with an AO and getting them banned (nice gestapo regime in place there, America!).
But if they really wanted to do it, they could just use Deus Ex 2 as precident. A fairly recent FPS game with graphic child killing and an M rating.
 
Joe Kremlin said:
So this will be the answer until they change it to no once we get our hands on the game?
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No, then it will become: This feature will be available in a special expansion pack download at only $9.99.
 
Silencer said:
Shuck: Do you plan to support the modding community by providing them with tools?

Emil: We don't know yet - we're discussing it. It is something we've done for Oblivion, but this doesn't automatically mean we'll do the same for Fallout. The truth is, preparing such tools takes a lot of time, and this is time lost to production of the actual game. We shall see.
Click to expand...
Now that's brahmin crap and he knows it. As a person who's been modding games for 17 years*, I can smell it.

Most of the devs release the tools (usually map editors and 3d exporters with examples) they use, so there's no extra work there, really.

This reminds me of Oblivion and its "pay-for-the" add-ons.

--------------------------------------
*Before you say "crap", be aware that my first modded game was Test Drive on C64 back in 1990. I've used the tool known as "Disk Maintenance" for it and changed the sprites of the cars. Of course I had no means of distributing it, I was doing it for mu own pleasure.
 
he's probably just scared that 'amateurs' would make a much better game than they did. (i.e. like the Oblivion mods which are often actually better than the game itself)
 
I have felt it coming for a lomg time now. And my guess is that there won't be any CS Kit for Fallout 3. Period. Ever.

And no matter what Emil P. is saying about the infamous modding incident, it has everything to do with this. Bethsoft are very scared, imo. that a modder, any modder really, in say about ½ a year after F3's release, will release a mod that has killable children in it. And that the politicians etc. will blame Bethesda yet again.

This reminds me (of sort) of how the great debate and dabaucle was over at the BGSF forums about ½ a year ago, when 90% of the modders, not at least in the MW modding forums, was very angry at Bethesda. And for what: For changing their policy about linking to mature mods e.g. mods like better bodies where you can get nude meshes for both men and women, which have full frontal nudity.

When I asked Gavin Carter (Kathode) on it, he admitted that full nudity means boobs for females and penises for men. (sorry, about the language, but this make me go....)

The height of stupidity came, imo, when the admins and moderators on the BGSF boards actually decided to remove a poster's link to beautiful European Renaissence Art, since this art contained nudity, meaning naked boobs.
(or so it was percieved, not at least in the MW forums). The Oblivion modders forum seems to be more in an uproar over this, yet it was also there the unrest first quited down it seems.

And all this make me think that there won't be any CS kit released for Fallout 3, since the developers sort of do lose control over their game. Like: you never know what modders will do to your game. And truth be told: For Oblivion, the quests in Bartholm e.g. are much better quests than those who can be found in Oblivion. It seems the main quest in Oblivion and Fallout is equally bad.

Or maybe it will be, as someone, has already suggested that you can download the CS kit for only $ 9.99 which will make it so that Fallout's modding community will be even smaller than than MW's OB's are today.

Bethesoft also needs to realize that the only reason people still play MW to this day is because of the mods for it. And as such, people still buy MW today. I know I would have stopped playing Oblivion a long time ago, if it hadn't been for the mods for it, like Bartholm or the mod in which you get a house etc.

If Bethsoft wants Fallout 3 to have long life, and not just be something people play with for about 3-4 months, then they WILL release a CS Kit. If they don't, but only go for the quick profit, they won't.

And yes, the CS Kit for Oblivion is the exact same CS Kit the devs. used to make the game.
It really shouldn't be that difficult to release the CS Kit, either with the game or as a free download on Bethsoft's website.

I think many people would like to know if there's a CS kit with Fallout 3. If there is NOT, many people probably won't be buying the game...
 
The Evil Female Nipple incident had nothing to do with the CS.
Neither would killable children. The CS is a convenient interface for building game worlds and placing objects with the resources available.
It does not make new resources by itself or do things that it's developers don't want it to.

That's where model builders, scripters, etc. come in. And they'll be able to do that with or without a CS.
The lack of a CS would only mean stifling the modding community at large and amateur modders like me who have no idea on how to directly manipulate game files.
 
Funny it just struck me, but why haven't THE SIMS been rerated "Mature" on grounds of nude mods? :D
 
Silencer said:
Funny it just struck me, but why haven't THE SIMS been rerated "Mature" on grounds of nude mods? :D
Click to expand...

Probably because they weren't in the game originally.
For example, someone made an interactive sex mod for Morrowind recently yet there's been no Hot Coffee style controversy because it wasn't hidden in the game.
The fact that mods must be used to access these resources is lost on the censors, of course.

Sorrow said:
What's the deal with nudity and "Mature" rating?
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Americo-Christian fundamentalist values being imposed on everyone.
Genitals are evil in fundie mentality, as are female nipples (because as we know, all women are evil temptresses and must hide their evil body parts to protect the pious men of our glorious patriarchal society :roll: ).
 
Vault 69er said:
Probably because they weren't in the game originally.
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Right, I misinterpreted what I had read earlier here.

Alas, the SIMS de-censorship mod had revealed what was there originally :)
 
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