Uprising in Uzbekistan

[Ratty Sr.]

It seems that end of post-communist authoritarian regimes in former Soviet states is nigh. First two peaceful revolutions brought about democratic changes in Georgia and Ukraine, and then Akayev's regime in Kyrgyzstan was toppled in a not-so-peaceful revolution. If yesterday's massacre is any indication, next up is Karimov's regime in Uzbekistan.

Namely, on May 12 in Uzbek city of Andijan thousands of people gathered in the streets and demanded justice for a group of businessmen who were imprisoned on account of alleged ties to islamist extremism. The protests were peaceful until a group of armed men - allegedly islamist rebels - stormed the prison and liberated 4,000 prisoners (most of them political). After that, all hell broke loose. The army put the city under blockade, evacuated all the foreign journalists and moved in to crush the demonstrations. Footmen and armored carriers surrounded the protesting masses and opened fire on them, indiscrimantly shooting armed rebels and unarmed civilians. Unofficial reports cite hundreds of civilians, many of them women and children, brutally slaughtered by the government troops. However, the swift and brutal military action has been rather ineffective - thousands of protesters gathered again today, this time accusing government of wanton murder and demanding Karimov's resignation.

More details here.

Though people tend to compare the Uzbek uprising with similar events in Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan, I fear they are too quick to draw that parallel. For starters, I find this apparent extremist prefix of the rebels quite disconcerting. This popular movement in Andijan reeks more of islamic revolution than cry for freedom and democracy. Comparison with 1979. events in Iran seems more accurate in this instance. Unlike Ukraine, where the 'orange revolution' was basically a conflict between pro-Moscow government and pro-western opposition, in Uzbekistan there is no strong opposition, and the current president is a major ally in battle against terrorism and extremism, so he has support of both Russia and USA. If we also take into account that Russia is unlikely to tolerate another violent regime change in her neighbourhood, then it's obvious that Andijan uprising has low chances of succeess in overthrowing the current government, and even if it does succeed, I'm not sure it will breed a more democratic form of rule.

 

[Tempistfury]

Russia is unlikely to tolerate another violent regime change in her neighbourhood

Can Russia really afford to get involved? It seems that they have their hands full in Chechnya [spelling] as it is.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Can Russia really afford to get involved? It seems that they have their hands full in Chechnya [spelling] as it is.

Whether they can or cannot afford it is irrelevant. They must do it. They have already lost much foothold in former Soviet territory and if they allow another ex-Soviet state to distance itself from Russia, any of the seventeen autonomous republics that constitute much of Russian territory could take the cue and decide it's safe to proclaim independance.

 

[The Commissar]

I saw some footage of National Troops clearing out a building of rebels in Andizhan earlier. All I can say is "Owned" Those guys cut through them like a hot knife through underaged suicidal islamic revolutionary butter.

 

[Kormy]

I saw some footage of National Troops clearing out a building of rebels in Andizhan earlier. All I can say is "Owned" Those guys cut through them like a hot knife through underaged suicidal islamic revolutionary butter.

You know hundreds of civiliens where killed because goverment troops fired the protesters?

Where the little children and women "islamic revolutionary" troops too?

 

[The Commissar]

This Just in! Hundreds die in fighting in a former Soviet Republic. Dozens of civilian casualties! Paramilitaries vow revenge! Federal forces promise retribution! West condemns Russia! The Kremlin has no comment at this time!

Yeah, it might have more shock value if I hadn't been seeing it every day for the last decade or so.

And that doesn't cancel the fact that the fighters in the building were rolled over in a matter of minutes. It was kind of funny in a "Fascists win again" sort of way.

 

[Silencer]

Last that I heard, the fascists lost

 

[The Commissar]

Of course comrade, defeated by our glorious forces. But other places in the world have not been so lucky and Fascism is on the rise once again. It is time for Zombie Lenin appear and lead his people to glory against this old threat, made new and powerful by the capitalist whores of the west!

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

The Commissar, do we really want Lenin back, comrade? His views are obsolete.

Silencer, they are rising again. From Latvija.

All these revolutions prove that our foreign policy is wrong. Soon enough all of 'em will be included into NATO and the blocade will begin. We just HAVE to react.

 

[The Commissar]

]The Commissar, do we really want Lenin back, comrade? His views are obsolete.

Official Letter of Condemnation

You traitorous*

[X]Menshevik
[X]Trotskyite
[ ]Tsarist
[ ]Coward
[ ]Bourgeois Repressor
[ ]Fear Monger
[ ]Wrecker
[ ]Saboteur
[ ]Defeatist
[ ]Lumpen Proletariat
[X]Counter-Revolutionary
[ ]All of the Above

Confess now and die well, or face*

[X]The Ice Pick of Doom to Traitors of the Ideals of the Revolution (IPoDtTotIotR)
[ ]Death by hanging
[ ]Execution by firing squad
[ ]Vacation to a GULag
[X]Deportation of you and all your loved ones
[ ]Revocation of your worker's pass
[ ]Voluntary Service in Penal Battalions
[ ]A weekend alone with Jebus, the loneliest Belgishian.
[ ]All of the Above



*Check all that apply

 

[John Uskglass]

Genius.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

The Commissar, well, now you can officially shove that letter right into your ass...
I remember you called Lenin a zombie, so make a copy of that damn letter and send it to yourself.
I thought we could cooperate. Now I see it's impossible.

 

[Elissar]

..... You Have NO sense of humor.

And to speak to one of your countries own soldiers in that tone of disrespect. Shamefull.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

Why can't two Soviet-crazed zealots decide for themselves whether they have "sence-of-humor" or they lack it? Don't judge me by my rude words, but by my high and pure aspirations.

 

[The Commissar]

Don't judge me by my rude words, but by my high and pure aspirations.

Strong words, and I would be easily swayed by them did I not know the Truth. Which leads me to my next question. Kindly tell us when you renewed your anti-Soviet criminal activity?

 

[Brother None]

It is just me, Comissar, or is your answer to anything and everything "I've seen worse, so I don't care"? Justified as it may be, it's kind of a pointless thing to say.

Though people tend to compare the Uzbek uprising with similar events in Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan, I fear they are too quick to draw that parallel.

Actually, people who draw a line between Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyztan are morons to begin with. We went over this in detail in an older thread, look it up if you will. The Kyrgyzi revolution had few similarities to the dual peaceful revolutions, this one even less.

For starters, I find this apparent extremist prefix of the rebels quite disconcerting. This popular movement in Andijan reeks more of islamic revolution than cry for freedom and democracy. Comparison with 1979. events in Iran seems more accurate in this instance. Unlike Ukraine, where the 'orange revolution' was basically a conflict between pro-Moscow government and pro-western opposition, in Uzbekistan there is no strong opposition, and the current president is a major ally in battle against terrorism and extremism, so he has support of both Russia and USA. If we also take into account that Russia is unlikely to tolerate another violent regime change in her neighbourhood, then it's obvious that Andijan uprising has low chances of succeess in overthrowing the current government, and even if it does succeed, I'm not sure it will breed a more democratic form of rule.

The situation is violently different in this case. The dictator of this country is allowing a (or multiple?) US military bases to exist in his country to support the US as they hunt for terrorists in Afghanistan. He is an outspoken supporter of the war on terror and, much like Putin, has used it as an excuse to persecute innocent people.

But guess what? America doesn't care. If people want to support their little cowboy war and then execute innocents in the same line so be it. Remember the remark I made a while ago about morality in international politics being a matter of convenience? See here the proof.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't come up yet. The EU has condemned the harsh way of handling to rising. The US has condemned the uprising and is cheering on the dictator handling the situation. Justly or not is another matter, it is quite amusing that the international police guard who're supposed to figh oppression wherever it rears its ugly head is fighting to preserve a dictatorship. To be honest, I think they're right, 'cept for the fact that they're not just against the danger of a new islamic dictatorship, they're just really interested in keeping the old dictatorship alive. Bunch of assholes.

And to speak to one of your countries own soldiers in that tone of disrespect

One of Russia's soldiers? A woman? Colour me confused. Next thing you know all Russians will convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints and stop drinking vodka.

In other words; isn't Comissar an American soldier fighting in Russia? I never done seen no Russian females fighting.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Actually, people who draw a line between Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyztan are morons to begin with. We went over this in detail in an older thread, look it up if you will. The Kyrgyzi revolution had few similarities to the dual peaceful revolutions, this one even less.

I don't know that thread, but I agree. Kyrgyzstan's "peaceful revolutionaries" were little more than a rabid band of looters and pillagers. They killed four policemen, destroyed innumerable stores and vehicles and generally acted like barbarians. Not really surprising, since Ukranian protesters were organized under banner of Yushchenko's party, while Kyrgyzi protesters were under banner of... well, nobody, really. It seemed like many people just got pissed with general state of things and decided to vent their fury by trashing a few cars.

 

[The Commissar]

It is just me, Comissar, or is your answer to anything and everything "I've seen worse, so I don't care"? Justified as it may be, it's kind of a pointless thing to say.

But it does let me laugh at people complaining about it.

isn't Comissar an American soldier fighting in Russia? I never done seen no Russian females fighting.

There are American soldiers fighting in Russia? And have you "done seen" ANY Russians fighting? I thought you just raped orphans and the corpses of frozen cats while you chopped firewood on your trip to the Motherland.

 

[Brother None]

But it does let me laugh at people complaining about it.

Laughing at people is not very nice.

There are American soldiers fighting in Russia?

I don't know. You tell me.

And have you "done seen" ANY Russians fighting? I thought you just raped orphans and the corpses of frozen cats while you chopped firewood on your trip to the Motherland.

No, I didn't go down south enough to see any combat. All the men in Kitezh had of course done their army time, though. One of them, the leader of the community, was a Chechna-veteran. He didn't tell me much about his time there, but what he told me was enough. I don't have much of a military turn of mind, really. He was an ammunitions expert and worked as a scout, basically infiltrating behind enemy lines. It's a miracle he's still alive, by all counts.

But that's not the point. I'm not expert on Russia, but as far as I could tell their army was pure 100% male. I know for sure that the women aren't conscripted, but I wasn't aware they could volunteer. Are you like a Russian female army volunteer? I thought that hasn't existed since WW II?

That must be pretty rare. The Russian women I met would never go to the army. Heck, that even includes one in particular who has seen more in her life than the average soldier would, having been married to an East German army officer first and living somewhere in Southern Russia during very turbulent times too.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

Kindly tell us when you renewed your anti-Soviet criminal activity?

I'll try my best to be kind. But it turns out that I can't answer the question. How could I RENEW my "anti-Soviet criminal activity" if I NEVER started one? My only anti-Soviet expression was about bringing "zombie Lenin" back to life to guide us. He isn't even able to climb up an armored car, not telling about his ability to guide someone. At least we won't go far enough...