US Troops Deployed on Home Soil

[Maphusio]

this is a GOOD thing.

you dont know why, its understandable, u are an idiot.

Awesome, down to senseless insults and poor spelling! It shows your in control of this debate good sir...

national guard can only be deployed by the president at the request of a govenor.

if the govenor is out of communication during a crisis, or is unable to make the request, the president cannot send in the national guard.

if they setup a situation where they can deploy a trained force without the requirement of a govenor requesting assistance, then it greatly increases the speed of assistance in situations where the govenor cant or simply wont due to political/emoboy reasons.

it took a long time to get help to people in orleans due to "the system" and its inherent red tape. now imagine if there was a military group that could have been sent there within hours rather than days it took to get help there.

but yea, you are right, lets leave the current situation in-tact and keep the circumstances that created the 3 day delay in getting assistance to orleans as-is. nobody died or was seriously affected by the delay right?

Ever hear of the "Posse Comitatus Act" or the "Insurrection Act"? How about "National Security Directive 51"... read those, and get back to me ok? -thanks bye.

The failure of New Orleans was not due to the "red tape" as you put it. Bush's actions of firing the director of FEMA substantiate that but the following reasons are more concrete.

1.) White house response (or lack there of). "Despite receiving information from multiple sources on the extent of the damage in New Orleans, the White House does not appear to have been aware that levees had broken and the city was flooding on the day of the storm and, indeed, appears to have been under the misimpression, for some time, that the levees did not break until the day aft er Katrina made landfall."

"The federal government could have offered assistance with pre-landfall evacuation without waiting for requests from state and local government."

2.) Fraud. A lack of oversight resulted in boat loads of money being stolen that should have gone to the victims of Katrina. According to the congressional report on Katrina, "1.5 million were not subject to identity verification because they were submitted via the telephone [where there was no authentication measures]; some of these registrations were found to be fraudulent."

"FEMA made expedited-assistance payments to tens of thousands of individuals whose registrations contained false or duplicative information"

"thousands of Social Security numbers that were used on more
than one registration associated with the same disaster."

"One of the most egregious examples presented, as discussed more fully below, is the purchase of approximately 25,000 manufactured homes that are virtually useless to Katrina victims because FEMA’s own regulations prohibit their installation in a fl ood plain. At the time of the hearing, at least 10,000 of these homes were sitting unused in Hope, AK.11 Making one bad decision aft er another, FEMA decided to make sure that no home had better amenities than others, so they removed some equipment, including microwaves and televisions. Th e DHS IG indicated that in the immediate aftermath of Katrina, decision making was mostly reactive, lacking planning or coordination."


It was a complete cluster f*** to put it bluntly. Red tape is always involved. In many cases NORTHCOM decided to take things into their own hands since their superiors failed to act. Fortunately those actions resulted in success but this points out an obvious flaw in itself.

You can not blame red tape for Katrina. You can place blame on our leaders; however, not just on the Federal level but the state level as well.


To summarize. Use of the US army on its home soil in times of dire need is sometimes essential. In the case of the L.A. riots or Katrina US forces were instramental in resolving a really bad situation.

Use of the US army on its own soil with no apparent reason is not valid... It should be a flag set off for any American citizen. You can not help but ask, "Why are those forces being deployed when they are needed elsewhere?"

"Who stands to gain from the situation?"

"What do I not know that my elected leader(s) know?"

If those troops were simply recalled from Iraq, no problems. Its when they have a specific mission to perform on home soil when there appears to be no need for them that worries us.

Also, for a country that's supposedly so proud of its foreign troops, there's an awful lot of paranoia surrounding those very same troops.

I don't think being proud of soldiers or anything of the sort for that matter, has to do with the topic at hand.



Source: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/katrinanation.html

 

[Blakut]

We are of the absurd opinion that soldiers in the streets are what constitutes a police state or a dictatorship.

My country was a totalitarian state, right about when i turned five. There were no soldiers in the streets. Everybody was afraid of the secret police. They were listening at every corner and had people confess against their neighbors or even their own family. If they got a confession against you, they came at night and arrested you, beat you up, forced you to sign fake confessions of guilt or forced you to sign false statements that incriminated someone else.

 

[TheWesDude]

their mission is to train for rescue and support operations at home.

not the first time this has happened. they are just making a permanent position out of it.

in all reality, many of the posts around the US have troops that are trained in this way. they are small in number and can provide only limited assistance.

what the army news post says is that they are making a larger commitment to the possiblity so they can actually provide more than 10-15 persons support, and provide upwards of 50-75 persons.

ever known someone in the military? ask them about that. they may not know it personally, but there are groups at each base.

on naval station norfolk, there is a team that acts as support for the coast guard. there is also multiple units of firefighters who provide civillian assistance if needed. there is also 2-3 teams able to handle biological/nuclear/hazardus incidents. they also provide assistance.

what they are doing is setting up a larger unit trained to handle these situations that is mobile to go where its needed. that and it also provides training they may not have or be able to get while they are in iraq.


but you are right. providing this kind of training and having their whole mission being to train for the above and provide asisstance in times of need is just horrible. kick their asses out of the country! we dont need em here!

 

[Ozrat]

More commie pinko liberal conspiracy slander:

CNN[/url]]According to Northern Command's Web site, the CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force is a team that will ultimately number about 4,700 personnel from the different military branches that would deploy as the Department of Defense's initial response force.

...

The Army says the unit would be deployed to help local, state or federal agencies deal with such incidents, not take the lead. The law enforcement-type training is not connected to its new mission, it says.

Use of active-duty military as a domestic police force has been severely limited since passage of the Posse Comitatus Act following the Civil War.

Troops may be trained in non-lethal tactics, but they are not trained for what they may have to deal with in domestic situations, said Gene Healy, a vice president of the conservative think-tank Cato Institute.

Healy said civilian police and, if circumstances are extreme, National Guard troops under the command of state governors should keep the peace.

"Federal troops should always be a last resort, never a first responder," he said.

...

The U.S. military "is not a Swiss Army knife," ready to fight the Taliban one week, respond to a hurricane the next and put down a major political protest the third week, Healy said.

...

"We need a lot more in our toolbox in order to deal with angry people on the street," said Col. Barry Johnson of U.S. Army North.

 

[Stag]

Our troops are American, Sander.

 

[Sander]

Our troops are American, Sander.

Err.....no shit, sherlock. I'm missing your point, here.

My point was that for a country that's really proud of its troops, they're all getting awfully paranoid for a pretty routine and seemingly harmless use of said army just because it's on home soil.

 

[Stag]

Also, for a country that's supposedly so proud of its foreign troops

lulz

 

[ManiacMutant]

My point was that for a country that's really proud of its troops, they're all getting awfully paranoid for a pretty routine and seemingly harmless use of said army just because it's on home soil.

That's the point! Are feudal driven warmongerpawns are inclined to spread democracy through out the world, not loaf around home.

That just makes the nuts nutty.

 

[Loxley]

The U.S. military "is not a Swiss Army knife," ready to fight the Taliban one week, respond to a hurricane the next and put down a major political protest the third week, Healy said.

How about opening a bottle of wine?

 

[Buxbaum666]

These troops are directly controlled by the President... not Congress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

(Godwin alert!)

 

[GreyViper]

I honestly dont see a problem, then again I dont expect our own army to be used against us. But look at this way, the ones stationed at US must be overjoyed being back at home again. Hell I would be if I had to chose between home or some obscure country.
By the way the comment about cops being seen as military is funny when coming form US. Now in russia I can understand since the wear somewhat similar uniforms.

 

[Pablosdog]

i dont see a an outright coup leading to dictatorship thing going on.

But, i don't think we should have so many troops stationed like that. But seriously, how many people in the us own a gun? More than 4,700?

weird, I was listening to 1984 by David Bowie before I entered this topic.

 

[aXXo]

The perception is far more dangerous than the actual threat. For Europeans it's normal. Your police look like soldiers half the time. For the US it's different. We fear our soldiers being used against us.

In my country i have never seen a policeman dressed has a soldier. In all my life i have seen in the news like a dozen times the deployment of the GOE (Special Operation Group, in English). They actually seem more like your SWAT so i don't think there is anything like what you are saying in my country. Of course i can't speak for the rest of the European country but i doubt it's any different from here.

 

[TheWesDude]

there are 2 things you guys are forgetting...


1)
there are lots of laws and exemptions to the posse comititus act that allows us troops to perform and do things on us soil.

one was passed by congress and approved by regan in 1980... stating that if civil unrest occurred, the president can demand a cease to the unrest or involve the troops


2)
the posse comititus act does NOT prohibit, but instead imposes CONSEQUENCES if someone does.

unfortunately, a sitting president can only be accused and arrested of high crimes.

otherwise he must be impeached, killed, or wait for his term to end.

only high officers and generals are subject to federal and civilian laws, otherwise your average soldier/officer can only be penalized by locality laws. otherwise it must be through a military courts martial.

the posse comititus is not a high crimes.

if a sitting president violates posse comititus, you either have to impeach the president, kill the president, or wait for him to leave office.

against a sitting president, posse comititus is useless.

 

[Ah-Teen]

The perception is far more dangerous than the actual threat. For Europeans it's normal. Your police look like soldiers half the time. For the US it's different. We fear our soldiers being used against us.

In my country i have never seen a policeman dressed has a soldier. In all my life i have seen in the news like a dozen times the deployment of the GOE (Special Operation Group, in English). They actually seem more like your SWAT so i don't think there is anything like what you are saying in my country. Of course i can't speak for the rest of the European country but i doubt it's any different from here.

I'm sorry, it was a flippant remark.