Venting about Fallout fandom

[Sideliner]

I told her that I didn't have any expectations for what it was going to be, because I've been aware of the game (the changing video game industry) for as long as I can remember, seen many favorite franchises die, get re-branded, go in another direction etc. She asked me to explain further and my only analogue I could give her was something like "What if Stephenie Meyer got hold of an old unfinished Kurt Vonnegut script through a bankruptcy auction and decided to finish and release 'The Cats Cradle part 2' or something with a bunch of weird dick, fart and piss jokes. That would probably make you a little mad huh."

This. Really spot on!

 

[shihonage]

Just wanted to get this out. What is it with the black and white views on this game series? Now, I'm not calling anyone here out, that is not my intention. This has more to do with opinions I've seen echoed everywhere from here to proverbial Timbuktu. I myself have always approached the series lightheartedly; what adventures will I get up to in the wasteland today? While I prefer the West Coast Fallout's literature-esque brand of world building, Fallout 3 was a perfectly suitable, if shallow, experience. So, generally, I just like good games. However, the endless conflicts between Fallout 3 fanboys whom cannot take an ounce of criticism and original Fallout fanboys for whom cynicism has become an occupation, has done nothing but wear down the reputation of a fun, unique series of games.

The fact that I cannot so much as comment on a video/article of Fallout 4 without it branching into a massive war between whining newbies and bitter old guards is more than a little disheartening. And I know, I know-it's the internet. Except it's not just the internet. Featuring an opinion-dissenting or otherwise-on a Fallout game in any setting seems to have become a crime worthy of crucifixion. How can a series of generally high quality games with such humorous, wonderful setups become such a den of wolves? I'm just so sick of the "I don't wanna think, I just wanna shoot stuffs!" and the "Boo-hoo, games aren't like they were in 90's!".

It's not the opinions I'm sick of, (I have my share, as this post indicates, and I am certainly guilty of hypocrisy here and there, especially here.) I'm sick of the hostile, biting ways in which they must be discussed. Nothing can just be a calm, simple exchange of thought. It always results in argument after argument after argument, in which no side has gained insight and everyone remains in their little bubbles, ignorant and scorned.

To close, I'm sorry if this upset anyone. And I need no answers as to why all this is, the reasons are obvious. Human nature. Ironically, that oh-so quotable line, "War, war never changes." is applicable in so many ways. Frankly, I just needed to vent. All the negativity and ignorance has just been stacking up in so many places that I think it just needed said, even if it is public knowledge. Again, sorry if this was bothersome in any way. Does anyone happen to agree? And if not, why? For discussion's sake.

These kinds of posts, actually, putting both sides on equal ground and assuming some kind of "parity in righteousness", are the apex of real ignorance. Fallout 3 was so universally abysmal, and Fallout 1 was so great, there's a clear right and wrong in this argument, and all the ignorance comes squarely from the Fallout 3 crowd.

The "old guard" are the keepers of the torch. We make sure the designs of Fallout are not forgotten and smoothed out into generic walking simulator oblivion. Our mission has meaning.

Unfortunately, we've all ended up in the same boat. And at this rate, it's well below the water's surface. As such, it would be nice to see everyone quit kicking and biting each other for a moment and listen to one another.

Your appeals to emotion are, frankly, banal, and are as old as this entire war itself.

 

[_Antithesis_]

While I think you're being a bit harsh with your words, shihonage, I have to agree. Willfull ignorance for the sake of not pissing everyone else while still engaging in the subject just seems rather stupid to me.
@The Courier
Like shihonage said, it seems like you're trying to pretend that everyone is equally wrong here, which I don't think is fair. Those people that have never played Fallout 1 or 2, yet try to pretend as though Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are what Fallout supposedly is are just ignorant and speak bullshit about a game they like because they seem to think that just because they like it makes it not only a good game, but a good Fallout game, which is just bullshitting EVERYONE. I think Fallout 3 and Fallout 4, though, should've just been an alternate Fallout universe thing going on alongside games along the lines of New Vegas that stuck with the original Fallout universe. Instead, Bethesda not only pointlessly used a name that only older gamers would remember instead of just making a new IP, but stuck a great big ol' 3 right on the end of it, making sure that no one could dismiss it as a shitty spinoff the way everyone did with Piece of Shit (almost called it by it's real name for a moment there, like the scrub I am), and attaching itself full-on to the previous games. Games which Fallout 3 did not even somewhat understand, instead thinking it was just killing people with wacky weapons in a retro-futuristic environment while 30s - early 60s music plays. It missed the point in the same way Piece of Shit did, but while no one defended Piece of Shit, almost everyone seemed to defend Fallout 3 on release simply because it was Bethesda and because it was "fun," which is a statement I'll agree with, and I'll say that it's a VERY enjoyable game (though not a very good game by any stretch of the imagination), it's also not Fallout in the least.

And now we have Fallout 4, which shares WAAAAAAAY more similarities with RAGE than Fallout, but instead of Bethesda making RAGE into a profitable franchise separate from RPG-FPS Fallout of the modern day, they've made it EVEN LESS of a Fallout game than Fallout 3, while still keeping that number at the end to give a ginormous finger to every loyal Fallout fan that mourns the now desecrated memory of the originals (or, in my opinion, just the original, since F2 kinda sorta fucked things up a bit). Bethesda has cultivated two very separate fanbases fighting over the same franchise, a problem made worse with the release of New Vegas which just brought the original Fallouts back into the limelight for a bit. It's an inconsistent series now, which it really always has been, but now we don't have the option of just ignoring several of the games in the series. All the while, Bethesda continues alienating long-time fans for no real reason. And the dumbasses that try to pretend as though Fallout 3 is somehow anything more than just a dumb, fun game cause problems while Bethesda themselves create bitterness and cynicism.

Basically, you know how Syndicate fans got the shaft REALLY hard when the franchise went from isometric tactics game into normal FPS game? Yeah, Fallout fans got the shaft that hard and then about 4x harder. And now we're especially screwed with Fallout 4, which is expected to sell even better than Skyrim, meaning all of us guards of the wonderful things that the originals got right will be completely and totally drowned out. What that means, then, is that the original Fallout games will become even less relevant to the normal consumer than they were in 2008 after the release of Fallout 3. And then you wonder why people who have been consistently screwed over by devs that seem to have such contempt for us, and new fans that are just, as best described earlier in the threat, tribalistic, try to pretend like we're in the wrong for wanting a game that is, from an objective design standpoint, WAAAAAY better (check the analysis/review I've posted here for more complete thoughts)... We have every right to feel betrayed and pissed and upset that something that shaped our ideas of what a game could be is being pushed further and further down into the quicksand by people who don't want a thinking game because they're simpletons content with ONLY wacky 50s-inspired visuals and exaggerated bloodshed. I have no problem with Bethesda making these kinds of games. But they're not Fallout. They're something different with a Fallout skin slapped on top. They're wolves in sheep's clothing and they think that WE are too stupid to notice it.

Whoo, got really rambly and kind of emotional there. And I probably got hard to understand at some points. If so, I apologize.

 

[The Courier]

There seems to be confusion as to the point of my post. It was not that no one has the right to argue or that any one side is outright right or wrong. It's the difference between "I disagree and here are my reasons:" and "Fuck you, you're wrong and there is nothing you can say to change that." It's called polite society. An argument can be worded in such a way as to enlighten the listener or at the very least extrapolate on your opinion without ripping the other's head off. I couldn't care less if you're an old fan whom hates the newer games or a new one who can't stand the originals. shihonage, your post is a good example of what I mean. You broke down your feelings into a coherent point without resorting to threats, needless insults and fractured grammar. This has nothing to do with the conflict but instead the manner in which the conflict is discussed. If that sounds again like I'm an apologist for people's ignorance then I'm not sure how much clearer I can be. It's about being the better person.

EDIT: Clearly, this whole thread was poorly thought out and worded. Rather than give everyone a conniption I'm just gonna kill it. Hopefully if the point needs made further down the line, someone more succinct than me will put it forth.